BOK Park Plaza

[TU 'cane]

Will be very, very nice to have another tall building downtown, especially one that will be nicely illuminated.

I agree. Additionally, it's nice to see the skyline expand out West. It will give the overall look from the South and I-40 a broader range.

[Laramie]

I'm excited. I don't care if it's a glass box.

With you, bro!


Morning glow box?

That glass glow box will illuminate the skyline. Should help project the spotlight when a real quality skyscraper is built.

[Plutonic Panda]

I'm not. Not for what we lost. There are far too many surface lots and sh!tty parking garages that could have been torn down instead of tearing down historic buildings to justify a glass box. Not only that, but it adds insult to injury since they could have even built this glass on the same block with all of the other historic buildings and we would have gotten a taller tower AND they still could have built their skybridge.

They are cheap asses and/or don't care. Plain and simple.

[OKCisOK4me]

Easy PluPan

[Pete]

From this morning.

Tower crane being assembled in the lower left corner, NE parking garage already taking shape.

[Urbanized]

I guess the massive counterweight was needed on that one crane because they will be lifting large pre-stressed concrete panels and deck into place rather than lighter pieces of steel and random smaller building materials.

[HangryHippo]

I'm not. Not for what we lost. There are far too many surface lots and sh!tty parking garages that could have been torn down instead of tearing down historic buildings to justify a glass box. Not only that, but it adds insult to injury since they could have even built this glass on the same block with all of the other historic buildings and we would have gotten a taller tower AND they still could have built their skybridge.

They are cheap asses and/or don't care. Plain and simple.

PluPan speaking the truth!

[Pete]

I guess the massive counterweight was needed on that one crane because they will be lifting large pre-stressed concrete panels and deck into place rather than lighter pieces of steel and random smaller building materials.

Driving under that crane along Main is more than a little harrowing.

[Of Sound Mind]

I'm not. Not for what we lost. There are far too many surface lots and sh!tty parking garages that could have been torn down instead of tearing down historic buildings to justify a glass box. Not only that, but it adds insult to injury since they could have even built this glass on the same block with all of the other historic buildings and we would have gotten a taller tower AND they still could have built their skybridge.

They are cheap asses and/or don't care. Plain and simple.

When it's your money on the line, you can choose to do it "the right way."

[Plutonic Panda]

When it's your money on the line, you can choose to do it "the right way."

Does that apply to other developers in major cities? Because why are those developments done the right way. So if I have the money, I can just go in, tear down what I want, and build a building with a sh!tty site plan that isn't within building codes?

[David]

When it's your money on the line, you can choose to do it "the right way."

As always, that argument is bull. We have building codes, zoning restrictions, and design review boards specifically to let the people whose money it isn't have input in the process and control it as needed.

[gopokes88]

Does that apply to other developers in major cities? Because why are those developments done the right way. So if I have the money, I can just go in, tear down what I want, and build a building with a sh!tty site plan that isn't within building codes?

Yeah. It's called property rights. I don't know about other cities but this city is the 2nd most conservative city in the country. A staple of conservative belief is the government doesn't get to tell someone what they can and can't do with their land as log as what they are doing is legal. Conservatives will generally favor less building codes, zoning, and hoops, not more. Obviously you need some codes, zoning, etc, but in general okc will be less restrictive then a Seattle or a San Francisco.

Don't get all angry and go off on a lecture about urbanism and all that, spare me. The cold hard fact is most people in the city will be on the side that the people/corporations should be allowed to do what they want with their land. That's the culture and belief system here. Might change as time goes on and it might not. You can always boycott BOK if you're that upset about it.

[Plutonic Panda]

Yeah. It's called property rights. I don't know about other cities but this city is the 2nd most conservative city in the country. A staple of conservative belief is the government doesn't get to tell someone what they can and can't do with their land as log as what they are doing is legal. Conservatives will generally favor less building codes, zoning, and hoops, not more. Obviously you need some codes combining and the like, but in general okc will be less restrictive then a Seattle or a San Francisco.

Don't get all angry and go off on a lecture about urbanism and all that but spare me. The cold hard fact is most people in the city will be on the side that the people/corporations should be allowed to do what they want with their land. That's the culture and belief system here. Might change as time goes on and it might not. You can always boycott BOK if you're that upset about it.

Yeah, I'm probably one of the least pro-urban posters on this site. I prefer highways and suburbs over 'walkability.' But I think in this instance, this is just dumb.

What is even more perplexing to me is how people are justifying this. I would completely understand this if there were hardly any vacant surface or grass lots, but there is literally like 5 within a block or two from this site. Not only that, but there was a surface lot on this very block that they could have worked the building AND garage into. Not only that, but they could have made more money in the long run renovating the hotel and other buildings into hotels, living units, more office space, restaurants, etc. It would literally be a win-win for everyone. More density, higher property values. More taxes for the city per block. I mean the benefits go on and on here.

It's not the sheer fact alone the we lost these buildings, it's the fact that they could have easily been saved, the fact that they could have built there huge parking garages on one of the 100 vacant grass or surface lots around the area. But like a lot developments around here, they go in and raze it to the ground. It is even the same thing with suburban developers and trees. Come in, raze everything to the ground, and start new. New trees, new homes, out with the old, in with the new. I don't know whether it's just lack of vision or simply being a cheapo. Anyhow, seeing as how a poster on this website took like 5 minutes to draw up a site plan on Microsoft Paint, I'm betting it's the latter.

As for BOK, I'm not upset with them. It's just irritating how this could have been one of the coolest developments in recent history. Think about a boutique hotel, 100 or so new living units, 5-10 new restaurants inside all of these renovated, historic buildings that have tons of character, with a bus station that was transformed into a 24hr Diner concept, right next to a 9 story parking garage with retail on the bottom, underneath a 27 story office building that came out to be 37 stories. Instead, we're getting 27 story office building with huge parking garages and a bus station sign as a tribute to once was. Not trying to be negative and this will great from the highway, but the closer you get to it the less appealing it will be.

[AP]

Yeah so if you wanna see change, gtfo of here. That's the way we do things and there is nothing that you can say to stop us. Quit whining and move on.

Edit: I know it's hard to get sarcasm here, but this post is just that. Mostly making fun of the ridiculous notion that if you don't agree with the way things are done, you should just get over it.

[Plutonic Panda]

Yeah so if you wanna see change, gtfo of here. That's the way we do things and there is nothing that you can say to stop us. Quit whining and move on.

Edit: I know it's hard to get sarcasm here, but this post is just that. Mostly making fun of the ridiculous notion that if you don't agree with the way things are done, you should just get over it.

Yeah I read that at first and thought you were serious then went back and read it and realized it was sarcasm.

[gopokes88]

Yeah, I'm probably one of the least pro-urban posters on this site. I prefer highways and suburbs over 'walkability.' But I think in this instance, this is just dumb.

What is even more perplexing to me is how people are justifying this. I would completely understand this if there were hardly any vacant surface or grass lots, but there is literally like 5 within a block or two from this site. Not only that, but there was a surface lot on this very block that they could have worked the building AND garage into. Not only that, but they could have made more money in the long run renovating the hotel and other buildings into hotels, living units, more office space, restaurants, etc. It would literally be a win-win for everyone. More density, higher property values. More taxes for the city per block. I mean the benefits go on and on here.

It's not the sheer fact alone the we lost these buildings, it's the fact that they could have easily been saved, the fact that they could have built there huge parking garages on one of the 100 vacant grass or surface lots around the area. But like a lot developments around here, they go in and raze it to the ground. It is even the same thing with suburban developers and trees. Come in, raze everything to the ground, and start new. New trees, new homes, out with the old, in with the new. I don't know whether it's just lack of vision or simply being a cheapo. Anyhow, seeing as how a poster on this website took like 5 minutes to draw up a site plan on Microsoft Paint, I'm betting it's the latter.

As for BOK, I'm not upset with them. It's just irritating how this could have been one of the coolest developments in recent history. Think about a boutique hotel, 100 or so new living units, 5-10 new restaurants inside all of these renovated, historic buildings that have tons of character, with a bus station that was transformed into a 24hr Diner concept, right next to a 9 story parking garage with retail on the bottom, underneath a 27 story office building that came out to be 37 stories. Instead, we're getting 27 story office building with huge parking garages and a bus station sign as a tribute to once was. Not trying to be negative and this will great from the highway, but the closer you get to it the less appealing it will be.

BOK is a bank. In the banking industry. They have no interest in doing that. They wanted to build a tower and offer close easy parking for their employees. It's an individualistic versus collectivist mindset. The United States, red states in particular, have a very individualistic mindset. BOK is going to look out for BOK first and foremost. The few who cared in the city (seriously, if you polled the city maybe 25% even know about the building, even less then that care about the bus station) argued their point and BOK said meh.

[Plutonic Panda]

BOK is a bank. In the banking industry. They have no interest in doing that. They wanted to build a tower and offer close easy parking for their employees. It's an individualistic versus collectivist mindset. The United States, red states in particular, have a very individualistic mindset. BOK is going to look out for BOK first and foremost. The few who cared in the city (seriously, if you polled the city maybe 25% even know about the building, even less then that care about the bus station) argued their point and BOK said meh.

Isn't BOK owned by George Kaiser? This isn't Tulsa, but he cares greatly about Tulsa.

Also, I could be wrong, but BOK is only operating out of the lobby. The rest of the building is spec space for Devon.

[gopokes88]

Yeah so if you wanna see change, gtfo of here. That's the way we do things and there is nothing that you can say to stop us. Quit whining and move on.

Edit: I know it's hard to get sarcasm here, but this post is just that. Mostly making fun of the ridiculous notion that if you don't agree with the way things are done, you should just get over it.

This isn't sarcasm

If you want to see immediate change GTFO of here. The entire culture and lifestyle of Oklahoma City is going to take at least a decade maybe 2 to change, if it even changes. There's no guarantee the urban okc dream even succeeds, so many things could derail it.

It might change one day, but its going to be at the pace of molasses. People should have known they were going to lose this right from the start. BOK took 0 public money and the 2 tenants are 2 of the largest corporations in Oklahoma. There is 0 way they weren't going to get exactly what they wanted. That could be different in 2020, 2025, 2030 but it is still 2015 and that's the way it works right now.

Sorry I'm a realist.

[gopokes88]

Isn't BOK owned by George Kaiser? This isn't Tulsa, but he cares greatly about Tulsa.

Also, I could be wrong, but BOK is only operating out of the lobby. The rest of the building is spec space for Devon.

No I believe they are consolidating all of their OKC operations into the tower.

I imagine the Chairman of BOK cares a lot about his 400 foot tower in OKC. He also owns part of the Thunder. He is most definitely a Tulsa guy but he absolutely cares about the OKC operations.

Devon and BOK had a pretty specific plan of what they wanted, and they we not going to be denied.

[Bellaboo]

Isn't BOK owned by George Kaiser? This isn't Tulsa, but he cares greatly about Tulsa.

Also, I could be wrong, but BOK is only operating out of the lobby. The rest of the building is spec space for Devon.

BOK has the top 5 or 6 floors along with the lobby. Devon has the rest.

[Urbanized]

Just to be clear, BOK is a tenant in this building, and their tenancy includes the right to put their name on the building. BOK is NOT the developer nor are they driving the build.

[Laramie]

Plutonic Panda, what has been done can not be undone no matter how or what many of us feel about it. Definitely understand your disappointment--we all share in that; many of us envisioned & hoped for bigger, taller and better quality.

The development is in progress; there will be more to come... My biggest disappointment at this point is the OG&E development. Of course they still could come up with one quality tower (finger crossed). If it helps you to heal my friend; then, sound off, get it out of your system.


We still have potential for an OG&E tower, large conference hotel & a future office and/or mixed use development tower...

Peace!

[Plutonic Panda]

I would much rather see something like this



than this

[bchris02]

Yeah unfortunately, as disappointing as all this is, the old buildings are gone and there is no way to bring them back. It's mindblowing to think about what could have been on that block and the opportunity that was squandered. That said, I am looking forward to the new addition in the skyline.

I hope the OG&E Tower ends up being decent, though I am not liking what I am hearing as of late about it being scaled down. Even if it ends up shorter, hopefully they use the same architecture in the original Clayco rendering and don't just do a glass box. If they want to do apartments as well, I don't understand why they don't just do one tower fronting the park and make it 35 stories and mixed use, with OG&E taking the first 20 and then 15 stories of residential above that.

[chuck5815]

I would much rather see something like this



than this

I agree with you. I do.

But think about how cool the skyline is going to look! *sarcasm*