Oklahoma liquor laws

[bchris02]

Personally, I care about single-strength beer much more than I care about wine in grocery stores. If I want wine, I don't mind going to the liquor store to get it. I think the idea of having a limited number of grocery stores that can sell wine by having package store owners "sell" their license to the grocer is a good idea.

However, as a beer lover, it would be nice to live in a state where beer is beer and can be purchased cold and after 9PM.

[TheTravellers]

...

I'd hope that Wine in grocery would be located similar to how tobacco products are. Segregated, with limited access. Maybe even an entire section closed off to minors....

Lived in IL and WA and bought wine/beer in grocery stores in aisles that anybody could walk down, not sure how their underage drinking stats stack up against OK's, but I don't remember seeing massive amounts of horror stories about underage drinking problems in those states. It just seems ridiculous in the 21st century to keep people under 21 from walking down certain aisles of grocery stores. If kids want to drink, they will find a way, and yes, we can do reasonable things to try to keep them from doing it, but it'd be nice if we didn't go overboard "to protect the children"...

[jerrywall]

Personally, I care about single-strength beer much more than I care about wine in grocery stores. If I want wine, I don't mind going to the liquor store to get it. I think the idea of having a limited number of grocery stores that can sell wine by having package store owners "sell" their license to the grocer is a good idea.

However, as a beer lover, it would be nice to live in a state where beer is beer and can be purchased cold and after 9PM.

I wonder if a consequence of single strength beer will be the loss of the ability to purchase beer after 9 and on Sundays.

[bchris02]

"To protect the children" is a classic, easy appeal to emotion to get people to voluntarily hand their rights over against their self interest. People line up to do it every time.

[bchris02]

I wonder if a consequence of single strength beer will be the loss of the ability to purchase beer after 9 and on Sundays.

From everything I've seen, all beer up to 6% ABV would be handled in the same way 3.2 beer currently is. To get higher ABV beer than 6%, you would still need to go to a liquor store.

[SouthsideSooner]

I wonder if a consequence of single strength beer will be the loss of the ability to purchase beer after 9 and on Sundays.

Liquor store's don't really want expanded hours so as a compromise as things are being worked out, that could very well be the case...

[SouthsideSooner]

From everything I've seen, all beer up to 6% ABV would be handled in the same way 3.2 beer currently is. To get higher ABV beer than 6%, you would still need to go to a liquor store.

...and where did you see that? That makes no sense. Why would beer be limited to 6% when they are able to sell wine which is almost always over 6%?

[jerrywall]

From everything I've seen, all beer up to 6% ABV would be handled in the same way 3.2 beer currently is. To get higher ABV beer than 6%, you would still need to go to a liquor store.

It depends on if they will still consider beer over 3.2 a regulated alcoholic beverage. I know there was this section in the bill...

The space in which retail alcoholic beverages are sold or
displayed must be able to be secured, and shall be secured, by a
door or closure approved by the ABLE Commission during those times
that retail sales of alcoholic beverages are prohibited. Alcoholic
beverages may be sold by the licensee on days and at times not
prohibited by law, rule or county prohibition.

[bchris02]

...and where did you see that? That makes no sense. Why would beer be limited to 6% when they are able to sell wine which is almost always over 6%?

That is because wine would still be classified differently than beer 6% or lower and wouldn't be available at all grocery stores.

The reform supported by the Retail Liquor Association of Oklahoma is what will be best for all Oklahomans and would be the most likely to pass.

Oklahoma a step closer to cold beer in liquor stores, wine in... | www.fox23.com

These are the changes.

-Oklahoma should move to single strength (“strong”) refrigerated beer for all outlets which currently sell either “3.2” or “strong” beer.
-As a matter of convenience, wine should be available for purchase in a limited number of grocery stores.
-Customers should be able to buy mixers, corkscrews, glassware, cigars and other items inside their local Retail Package Store.
-Customers should be able to order our products and have them delivered by a properly licensed employee of a Retail Package Store.
-Customers should be allowed to attend tastings inside the premises of a Retail Package Store.
-Customers should be permitted to bring their child with them into a Retail Package Store.
-Customers should be allowed to buy liquor, wine and beer from a Retail Package Store on Independence Day, Memorial Day & Labor Day.
-Customers should have access to growlers and “crowlers” filled and sealed at a Retail Package Store.

Doing it any other way is likely to have unintended consequences. For instance, if the state simply started allowing grocery stores to have package store licenses to sell strong beer and wine, there could end up being a situation where all alcohol sales are cut off at 9PM and on Sunday and holidays, with sales become completely banned in some Oklahoma counties that are still "dry". If you attempt to scrap the current two-strength system altogether in favor of one that allows all grocers to sell beer and wine, refrigerated, and during the same hours they currently sell 3.2 beer, it is unlikely that Oklahoma voters will vote in favor of it and it will be strongly opposed by the liquor lobby.

[jerrywall]

Liquor store's don't really want expanded hours so as a compromise as things are being worked out, that could very well be the case...

The RLAO is actually in support of sales on Sundays, just not expanding hours.

[jerrywall]

"To protect the children" is a classic, easy appeal to emotion to get people to voluntarily hand their rights over against their self interest. People line up to do it every time.

Well there is some data to back up increased availability causing more underage drinking (and drunk driving). Here's an able report (albeit from the early 90s).

http://rlao.org/ABLEReport-Accidents&Deaths.pdf

More than 70% of all alcohol-related accidents in the state of Oklahoma are the result
of the consumption of low-point (3.2) beer, primarily sold at convenience and grocery stores. Of
those, more than 70% involve those less than 21 years of age who have ready access to this
intoxicating beverage due to the plethora of access points. Between 1991 and 1993, for those
under 21 years of age, 3.2 beer was found to have been involved in 86% of all accidents
resulting in injury and in 80% of all fatalities that were investigated by ABLE.

[bradh]

Not related to OK laws, but was in Cincy this weekend and there is a liqour store on the KY side called The Party Source that is amazing and blows Spec's outta the water. Largest liqour store in the country (single location though)

[jerrywall]

Not related to OK laws, but was in Cincy this weekend and there is a liqour store on the KY side called The Party Source that is amazing and blows Spec's outta the water. Largest liqour store in the country (single location though)

Wow, had to go look that place up... they have a google tour on their website of the shop. Depending on what they define as "related" products I wonder if we could see something like that here if the new laws come to pass. The markup on liquor is so tiny that being able to carry items with better markups could maybe grow some really nice shops.

[bradh]

Wow, had to go look that place up... they have a google tour on their website of the shop. Depending on what they define as "related" products I wonder if we could see something like that here if the new laws come to pass. The markup on liquor is so tiny that being able to carry items with better markups could maybe grow some really nice shops.

Basically it has a Party Galaxy (less costumes) inside, a freaking 40 tap beer bar, a crowler station, a walk in cooler for beer (and tons of individual bottles). I mean, you can't really explain the place, which I guess is why they have the tour on their website.

[Stickman]

I wonder if the polling was conducted in churches on a Sunday? ha-ha
You can be sure the oligarchs have influenced the numbers in some way.
Go to Texas and you will liquor stores that are 20-30 k square feet full of alcohol related items.
Total Wine and Liquor or Goody- Goody stores are fun to go in. Maybe the OK liquor retail association is worried the "little guy" does not have the capital for expansion?

If this makes it sound like I have a drinking problem....I don't. I drink maybe 2-3 beers a week and a mix drink on occasion. It is just kind of frustrating we don't have a free market here.

[jerrywall]

You realize the OK liquor retail association is pushing for these modernizations. The polling was put together with Sen. Bice, who is also a big advocate. They were trying to determine which issues/aspects would cause modernization bills to fail at the ballot.

[Bunty]

You realize the OK liquor retail association is pushing for these modernizations. The polling was put together with Sen. Bice, who is also a big advocate. They were trying to determine which issues/aspects would cause modernization bills to fail at the ballot.

I would bet the counties, around 24, can automatically be marked as losers. Fortunately none are major population centers. I would bet Oklahoma City, Tulsa, Enid and Stillwater and Norman would pass it by decent margins.

[bchris02]

I would bet the counties, around 24, can automatically be marked as losers. Fortunately none are major population centers. I would bet Oklahoma City, Tulsa, Enid and Stillwater and Norman would pass it by decent margins.

Yeah most of those counties are very sparsely populated. Do any of them actually pull significant weight?

Arkansas defeated a proposal for statewide liquor last fall. The two things really going against it is first, a large portion of the state's population resides in currently dry counties. Secondly, the Arkansas liquor lobby was against it because it would kill the business of wet/dry county line liquor stores.

However, the fact that 57% of the state voted against it goes to show there still is a lot of resistance towards more lax alcohol laws. Arkansas is a strange beast. The laws are very sensible in wet counties; full strength beer, Arkansas wine in grocery stores, liquor stores for everything else. Liquor stores can have refrigeration and sell accessories and non-alcoholic beverages. Dry counties there mean total prohibition. At least Oklahoma's dry counties have 3.2 beer.

That brings up another question that could have an impact in these rural counties. If counties currently ban alcohol sales other than 3.2 beer, what happens if 3.2 beer is done away with?

[Stickman]

You realize the OK liquor retail association is pushing for these modernizations. The polling was put together with Sen. Bice, who is also a big advocate. They were trying to determine which issues/aspects would cause modernization bills to fail at the ballot.

Do you know if it can be put before the people next November without going through
the Joint Committee?

[jerrywall]

Do you know if it can be put before the people next November without going through
the Joint Committee?

The the two versions were different, so from what I understand is it would have to go through the joint committee and then the joint version would have to get revoted on in both chambers, then signed by the governor. Then scheduled for the ballot.

[Stickman]

The the two versions were different, so from what I understand is it would have to go through the joint committee and then the joint version would have to get revoted on in both chambers, then signed by the governor. Then scheduled for the ballot.

I'm afraid if it goes to the Joint Committee they will kill it some how, some way.

[jerrywall]

I think a lot of work is going on right now behind the scenes to come up with a version that would pass the committee. From what Sen Bice has said, they intended for it to get stalled this year, so they could work and hammer out something with the hope of getting it on the 2016 ballot.

[Dubya61]

Someone should look this up but, I seem to recall that Oklahoma is already one of the worst states for under age drinking.

Why is that pertinent? What about these changes will impact that?

[jerrywall]

Why is that pertinent? What about these changes will impact that?

Post #736

[Dubya61]

Post #736

Yeah, but will availability really be increased? Where will you be able to buy beer after reform that you are not able to buy beer at now?