Cool Row House Development (Portland Pointe)

[Plutonic Panda]

Saw a pretty cool housing development going up in the suburbs. Bunch of row homes being built at Portland and NW164th St.

Really cool OKC is starting to get these kinds of things.

[Filthy]

Really cool OKC is starting to get these kinds of things.

Interesting take for sure. I don't agree, nor do I disagree with your "Really Cool" statement...as they obviously haven't started building yet. But I can tell you, that this development has been a topic of discussion for quite some time, amongst the neighborhood associations of some of the neighborhoods just the west of there. (Gaillardia, Lone Oak, Deer Creek Village) And to say that it isn't favorable, would be an understatement. Nothing earth shattering, or too hateful by any means, but I have attended a few of the meetings myself.....and the general consensus is that even though the design is obviously, of a "row home" design it is still viewed by many as "high density" housing. (Apartments)

Once again, I am not stating this opinion as my own....just sharing. But, I do think it would be cool, if they could replicate a "brownstone" type façade, and maybe throw a restaurant or convenience store within the community, t make it more of a "mixed use" neighborhood idea, that everyone drools over.

[CaptDave]

Pick it up and drop it somewhere on the west side of Central / Union Park and you would have something.

[Plutonic Panda]

Interesting take for sure. I don't agree, nor do I disagree with your "Really Cool" statement...as they obviously haven't started building yet. But I can tell you, that this development has been a topic of discussion for quite some time, amongst the neighborhood associations of some of the neighborhoods just the west of there. (Gaillardia, Lone Oak, Deer Creek Village) And to say that it isn't favorable, would be an understatement. Nothing earth shattering, or too hateful by any means, but I have attended a few of the meetings myself.....and the general consensus is that even though the design is obviously, of a "row home" design it is still viewed by many as "high density" housing. (Apartments)

Once again, I am not stating this opinion as my own....just sharing.

Yeah. I figured there would be opposition. Traffic shouldn't be much of an issue since it'll be right by a new highway.

How much opposition is there? Are they really pushing against it?

[Plutonic Panda]

Pick it up and drop it somewhere on the west side of Central / Union Park and you would have something.

I would like to see these kinds of homes in C2S.

[AP]

Kinda inappropriate for the area. In the price point (300k-400k) they could definitely make that work downtown somewhere.

[betts]

They look great, and people who think they are apartments clearly are too provincial to have visited NYC, Boston and Chicago, where row house neighborhoods have some of the priciest real estate.

[Filthy]

Yeah. I figured there would be opposition. Traffic shouldn't be much of an issue since it'll be right by a new highway.

How much opposition is there? Are they really pushing against it?

It wasn't significant push back, as in nobody laywered up, or made any "under the table" donations to any lobbyists or anything...it was more or less a continued voice of concern in regards to the typical increased traffic, and the issue of the heavy inflow of students within the Deer Creek district that is already busting at the seams. This was back in 2012/2013. The district line, changes right there at that intersection, and as I understand it....the developer was pushing for the district to make an exception there at that specific intersection to be included in Deer Creek schools. As the Southwest corner, North West corner, and the Rose Creek neighborhood in the North East corner are all Deer Creek Schools. And god knows the last thing Deer Creek parents want, is their children going to school with apartment kids. (<---Zing) You know how it goes with someone starting a rumor that doesn't have any validity. You get entire neighborhoods of stay at home soccer moms, posting about it all day on Facebook. But alas....this development in question will be Edmond Schools. So, it has definitely cooled down as of late.

[Filthy]

Kinda inappropriate for the area. In the price point (300k-400k) they could definitely make that work downtown somewhere.

In regards to the design aspect, or price point?

[AP]

Design aspect. Why would you build a walkable style development, like row houses, with a traditional suburban neighborhood layout, that has nothing to walk to. It doesn't make any sense. It's another case of the sububrs trying to mimic authentic designs elsewhere, like French countryside and that type of thing. I think we should really focus these type of developments in the core first.

[Plutonic Panda]

Design aspect. Why would you build a walkable style development, like row houses, with a traditional suburban neighborhood layout, that has nothing to walk to. It doesn't make any sense. It's another case of the sububrs trying to mimic authentic designs elsewhere, like French countryside and that type of thing. I think we should really focus these type of developments in the core first.

I agree we need to see these designs in the core, but I also like to see them in the suburbs as well. If anything, it gives more tax dollars per square mile than the typical subdivisions that have spread across NW and SW OKC, so that's always a plus.

It's a free market though. A friend of mine pointed out the other day the schools are a huge draw and I think he right. Filthy also confirmed this as the developer specifically tried to get into Deer Creek schools.

[Plutonic Panda]

It wasn't significant push back, as in nobody laywered up, or made any "under the table" donations to any lobbyists or anything...it was more or less a continued voice of concern in regards to the typical increased traffic, and the issue of the heavy inflow of students within the Deer Creek district that is already busting at the seams. This was back in 2012/2013. The district line, changes right there at that intersection, and as I understand it....the developer was pushing for the district to make an exception there at that specific intersection to be included in Deer Creek schools. As the Southwest corner, North West corner, and the Rose Creek neighborhood in the North East corner are all Deer Creek Schools. And god knows the last thing Deer Creek parents want, is their children going to school with apartment kids. (<---Zing) You know how it goes with someone starting a rumor that doesn't have any validity. You get entire neighborhoods of stay at home soccer moms, posting about it all day on Facebook. But alas....this development in question will be Edmond Schools. So, it has definitely cooled down as of late.

Yeah. As for the traffic thing though, it'll be right on a service road but the intersection will still be at grade so there is that issue I can understand.

The good thing is, they extended the highway right up the development.

[Mr. Cotter]

Hard pass. It's the worst of both worlds: living within close proximity to your neighbors without any of the benefits of a walkable neighborhood.

[Plutonic Panda]

These kinds of neighborhoods work well in Dallas. Of course Dallas is much larger, but I'm sure these will sell well.

[Mr. Cotter]

In Dallas, they are built relatively close to amenities, not at a remote exurban intersection of two section roads.

[Plutonic Panda]

In Dallas, they are built relatively close to amenities, not at a remote exurban intersection of two section roads.

Correct, but this whole area is exploding with growth. So who knows what we'll see here. Maybe it might be a little premature, I guess time will tell.

[okatty]

Maybe i missed it in the discussion but who is the developer / group involved with this?

[Mr. Cotter]

If someone is planning anything remotely similar to what makes a row home attractive at Portland and NW 164th(!!!), I'll be shocked.

It looks like a nice development, it's just about 15 miles too far north.

[Filthy]

remote exurban intersection of two section roads.

It's 2 miles away from the densest collection of cookie cutter/chain restaurants, shopping opportunities, and entertainment in the entire State.

[Plutonic Panda]

If someone is planning anything remotely similar to what makes a row home attractive at Portland and NW 164th(!!!), I'll be shocked.

It looks like a nice development, it's just about 15 miles too far north.

I hear you. What I meant when I said that is something probably suburban. I do understand what you're getting at.

[Plutonic Panda]

Maybe i missed it in the discussion but who is the developer / group involved with this?

This is copied from the application

Developer:
Portland Pointe, LLC
613 S.W. 24th Ave., Suite 100
Norman, OK 73069
Prepared By:
Huitt-Zollars, Inc.
2832 W. Wilshire Blvd., Suite 202
Oklahoma City, Oklahoma 73116
(405) 842-0363 phone
(405) 842-0364 fax

http://www.okc.gov/AgendaPub/cache/2...1510460586.PDF

[AP]

Foster Signature Homes

[Tundra]

Do they not have a garage, or did I miss it?

[White Peacock]

I agree with those who say this is really cool, but way too far outside of the actual city. This really shouldn't be any further north than 150th, and really, would be much more appropriate closer to the core. Unless they do a great job at placemaking and turning this into an all-inclusive environment, I don't see the point of the arrangement.

[Urbanized]

You can have dense, walkable developments in the suburbs. The problem is that an area doesn't rise to the definition of "walkable" based only on density and sidewalks. Walkability also requires someplace to walk TO. If there were plans for adjacent walkable commercial development and you could enjoy some of the benefits of an urban environment beyond the APPEARANCE of one, there is no reason they couldn't exist in an area like this, which already has lots of surrounding development and no longer qualifies as rural. If it were also transit-oriented development and connected to a commuter rail station - as is emerging in lots of other cities - even better.

That said, since it has none of the above, as planned it is basically faux urbanism. It will look good in photos, and people might wave hi to each other as they walk down the sidewalk for exercise. But true street life and the type of interaction it encourages won't happen. People will still use these like an apartment complex or surburban neighborhood subdivision. That is, they will drive into their garages at the end of the day, shut the door behind them, and have little if any true interaction with their neighbors or their neighborhood.