Nic's Diner + Lounge

[CS_Mike]

Is that atrocious sign a certain thing? How did that get past review?

The DDRC voted against it, but Nic does have the option of applying for a variance with the Board of Adjustments. It's probably unlikely that the BoA would approve a variance after the DDRC recommendation. I didn't see it come up in the minutes of the latest BoA meeting, so maybe Nic just opted to drop it.

[Urbanized]

The paint, OTOH, is probably impossible to undo at this point. I think that the City inadvertently approved it, buried in the scope of work doc in the CA revision. Unfortunate if so..

[Uptowner]

Board of Adjusters has been very tough on signs in the last couple years, monuments, poles, billboards, I've only seen variances granted for historic reasons. Which is why when buildings like hemi's pizza go down, the grandfathered signs stay up.

[onthestrip]

The paint, OTOH, is probably impossible to undo at this point. I think that the City inadvertently approved it, buried in the scope of work doc in the CA revision. Unfortunate if so..

Not impossible to undo. I know a few years back that the Circle K at 23rd and Western, when it was operated by a different brand, painted the entire outside (all brick) white. It obviously looked terrible and didnt pass whatever city/neighborhood codes that were in place and it had to be removed. Not sure if it was done by chemicals or sand blasting but it was done.

[HangryHippo]

My goodness, what the hell was the owner thinking? Not only the reasons Urbanized has shared, but it looks really bad as well.

[John Knight]

[Urbanized]

My goodness, what the hell was the owner thinking? Not only the reasons Urbanized has shared, but it looks really bad as well.

I suspect that is only a primer coat we are seeing, and when done it will probably be a perfectly nice painted brick facade. The problem is that painted brick is entirely inappropriate as long as the unpainted original brick was intact and in such excellent condition.

[HangryHippo]

I suspect that is only a primer coat we are seeing, and when done it will probably be a perfectly nice painted brick facade. The problem is that painted brick is entirely inappropriate as long as the unpainted original brick was intact and in such excellent condition.

Really think it should be stopped in its tracks. How do you go about removing it?

[Urbanized]

Not impossible to undo. I know a few years back that the Circle K at 23rd and Western, when it was operated by a different brand, painted the entire outside (all brick) white. It obviously looked terrible and didnt pass whatever city/neighborhood codes that were in place and it had to be removed. Not sure if it was done by chemicals or sand blasting but it was done.

You are right about the Circle K, but the difference between the two buildings is that historic brick and mortar (such as what is on Nic's) is usually much softer and more porous than modern brick, such as what is on the Circle K. Modern brick has a much harder-fired glaze. So, when you try to strip old brick you can much more easily damage it. Usually a chemical strip would be advisable. Sandblasting would have devastating consequences, as it would eat through the glaze and make the brick MUCH more vulnerable to moisture and eventual spalling. Even soda blasting is usually discouraged, in fact often so is blasting it ONLY with a pressure washer.

Really think it should be stopped in its tracks. How do you go about removing it?

Chemical strips are much more time consuming and expensive - and often less effective - but at least they generally don't damage the glazed surface of the brick. Once the glaze is off of brick it often becomes BETTER to paint, just to block moisture, but of course moisture is insidious and still finds a way in, so usually painting/removal is just the beginning of the end for the brick, and maybe someday even the structure itself. Some elaborate HP projects actually remove all of the brick and turn it around 180 degrees so that the remaining glazed side faces out, but you can only imagine how expensive THAT is. This makes future renovation potentially much more expensive and often too expensive to make sense economically.

Here is an example of spalling:

[DoctorTaco]

You are right about the Circle K, but the difference between the two buildings is that historic brick and mortar (such as what is on Nic's) is usually much softer and more porous than modern brick, such as what is on the Circle K. Modern brick has a much harder-fired glaze. So, when you try to strip old brick you can much more easily damage it. Usually a chemical strip would be advisable. Sandblasting would have devastating consequences, as it would eat through the glaze and make the brick MUCH more vulnerable to moisture and eventual spalling. Even soda blasting is usually discouraged, in fact often so is blasting it ONLY with a pressure washer.



Chemical strips are much more time consuming and expensive - and often less effective - but at least they generally don't damage the glazed surface of the brick. Once the glaze is off of brick it often becomes BETTER to paint, just to block moisture, but of course moisture is insidious and still finds a way in, so usually painting/removal is just the beginning of the end for the brick, and maybe someday even the structure itself. Some elaborate HP projects actually remove all of the brick and turn it around 180 degrees so that the remaining glazed side faces out, but you can only imagine how expensive THAT is. This makes future renovation potentially much more expensive and often too expensive to make sense economically.

Here is an example of spalling:

Dear sir. A previous owner sandblasted the paint off my historic home. I've never thought much of it, but looking at it recently after reading this post it looks like nearly a dang quarter inch of brick was removed in some places. No visible spalling (that I can recognize, at least).

Is my house doomed? How much time do I have? What remedy do I have? Just paint the thing? God I would hate too because the brick is so beautiful.

[Anonymous.]

If they get to it before full cure, you could probably get most of it off with thinner, but I don't know how long it has been there, or what type of paint it is.

[Urbanized]

It's only primer at this point.

[Urbanized]

Dear sir. A previous owner sandblasted the paint off my historic home. I've never thought much of it, but looking at it recently after reading this post it looks like nearly a dang quarter inch of brick was removed in some places. No visible spalling (that I can recognize, at least).

Is my house doomed? How much time do I have? What remedy do I have? Just paint the thing? God I would hate too because the brick is so beautiful.

The are some sealing methods that can be employed, but of course they are not completely permanent and must be maintained for the rest of life of the home (just as paint must be). Nothing is as good as the original glaze on the brick, which could last for centuries with only minimal maintenance (mortar re-pointing). I would suggest some online research and perhaps even a call to someone like Preservation Oklahoma or the architect at the Oklahoma Main Street Center (connected to the National Trust for Historic Preservation) for a recommendation of a local masonry contactor or supplier who is experienced with historic brick preservation and restoration techniques.

[Pete]

Took this today... Looks like they plan to paint it gray:

[Urbanized]

Looks like he's trying to emulate the look of some of the buildings over by his original location. The difference is they were previously painted.

[catch22]

It looks like a "Zebra Cake" in its current state:

[shawnw]

So what came of what Steve learned? I thought they didn't actually have (proper) permission to paint?

[Anonymous.]

The primer makes it look like a white castle.

[baralheia]

According to Steve on Twitter:

Planning Director Aubrey Hammontree said this was never approved by city planning or the Downtown Design Review Cmte

So yeah, the City never approved painting the brick apparently.

[SoonerDave]

According to Steve on Twitter:



So yeah, the City never approved painting the brick apparently.

Good grief. For all the mundane things that seem to get attention these days, how this made it by is a little horrific. The process just failed on this one.

[Pete]

The City has to assume the owners/developers/contractors will abide by what was agreed upon.

Will be interesting to see what happens now that they've been made aware.

[TheTravellers]

According to Steve on Twitter:



So yeah, the City never approved painting the brick apparently.

But are they going to do anything about it or just shrug? I'm guessing just shrug - what good are they, then?

[Paseofreak]

A Cease and Desist order was issued late yesterday or this morning.

[sooner88]

A Cease and Desist order was issued late yesterday or this morning.

They've already painted the entire front that dark grey color.

[Pete]

From what I understand, this is not completely cut and dried.

It seems the intention to paint the exterior was listed on the scope of work that was ultimately approved by the DDRC, although that part of the application was not obvious.

If the Nic's people wanted to push this, they would probably have decent legal standing.