Oklahoma liquor laws

[bchris02]

OK doesn't produce more, they consume more...or so they say. My theory is two-fold, those other states have a lot better craft beer culture (Colorado's governor built a brewpub before becoming governor) and just more craft breweries per capita, not to mention despite being a "3.2 state" their laws are less restricted in other areas. Second, we have more bud and coors drinking rednecks.

The primary reason is that Oklahoma is the only state where Big Beer doesn't offer their full-strength product to bars and liquor stores. In Kansas or Colorado for instance, you can buy a six-pack of Bud at a grocery store and its 3.2 but if you go to a liquor store or a bar you get the real thing. In Oklahoma, if you are drinking Bud, Miller, or Coors you are stuck with 3.2 ABW.

[Bunty]

There are those who will still swear by Bud and Coors as their beer of choice. I don't agree with their choice, but they're free to make it. Taste is personal (even if bad).

People haven't developed a taste for beer, if 3.2% grocery store beer is all they have been exposed. Local craft beer is usually noticeably more expensive, though. Hopefully, if regulations can be changed in Oklahoma, local brewed beer won't have to cost so much.

[bille]

The primary reason is that Oklahoma is the only state where Big Beer doesn't offer their full-strength product to bars and liquor stores. In Kansas or Colorado for instance, you can buy a six-pack of Bud at a grocery store and its 3.2 but if you go to a liquor store or a bar you get the real thing. In Oklahoma, if you are drinking Bud, Miller, or Coors you are stuck with 3.2 ABW.

That's not entirely true. ABI started bringing in some of their high abv products (Lime a Rita, platinum, etc) nearly two years ago. No laws changed it was just a business decision change. For whatever reason they haven't brought in full strength bud but my guess is the reasoning for that is they just make more money being able to self distribute the 3.2 stuff without having to push that through all four tiers like the >3.2 stuff.

[bille]

People haven't developed a taste for beer, if 3.2% grocery store beer is all they have been exposed. Local craft beer is usually noticeably more expensive, though. Hopefully, if regulations can be changed in Oklahoma, local brewed beer won't have to cost so much.

A law change has nothing to do with the cost of local craft, our price points on local craft is all about supply and demand. Local craft charges what the market will bare and what they need to charge to stay in business and grow. Now brewer's income will increase once they are able to have actual functioning tap rooms but don't expect an income increase to lower prices. That will go into more equipment, more employees, more offerings, special releases, etc., etc.

[Urbanized]

Burgers from places like Garage and S&B are more expensive than the ones from McDonald's and Wendy's too. I'm cool with it.

[bchris02]

I don't think its a craft vs. macro thing. People who drink Bud generally don't seek out craft beer and vice versa.

[Urbanized]

^^^^^^^^
Most people who regularly eat McDonald's don't also regularly eat S&B/Garage and vice versa. See how that works?

[jerrywall]

Yup, even in states with strong craft brew cultures, and great beer laws, Coors and Bud still dominate sales. Plus you have the constant absorption of local breweries (Heineken just bought out Lagunitas for example), so even if you think you're buying local craft beer, there's a good chance you're buying from one of the giants (Goose Island, Leinenkugel, Shock Top, Blue Moon, Pyramid, Red Hook, etc).

[onthestrip]

Yup, even in states with strong craft brew cultures, and great beer laws, Coors and Bud still dominate sales. Plus you have the constant absorption of local breweries (Heineken just bought out Lagunitas for example), so even if you think you're buying local craft beer, there's a good chance you're buying from one of the giants (Goose Island, Leinenkugel, Shock Top, Blue Moon, Pyramid, Red Hook, etc).

From my understanding, they didnt buy them out. They bought 50% and will use their distribution abilities while Lagunitas retains control of operations.

The big dogs still dominate sales, but their domination has slipped a bit due to growing craft brew sales. Which is why you've seen the big dogs buy out craft brewers. In Bev is making a push to buy Miller, which would have them controlling well over 50% of the worlds beer, which is a scary thought.

[bille]

Yup, even in states with strong craft brew cultures, and great beer laws, Coors and Bud still dominate sales. Plus you have the constant absorption of local breweries (Heineken just bought out Lagunitas for example), so even if you think you're buying local craft beer, there's a good chance you're buying from one of the giants (Goose Island, Leinenkugel, Shock Top, Blue Moon, Pyramid, Red Hook, etc).

Imo a true craft beer enthusiast will know who owns the brewery of their choice. Acquisitions like Lagunitas were public months before it happened. Sure there'll be times when you run across a brewery you've never heard of but just a little research will point you in the direction of who is actually paying the bills. It's not that hard to find out if you really want to know and/or consider that important.

[ctchandler]

I don't think its a craft vs. macro thing. People who drink Bud generally don't seek out craft beer and vice versa.

Bchris,
Sorry, I enjoy cold grocery store beer at home, but when I go out, the first thing I look for is a local craft beer, then second a national craft beer. I can't remember the last time I had a Bud, Coors, et al at a good bar. I know it's been over fifteen years. I also love cask ale in England and my method is the same there, I the bartender if he/she has a local, then national. By the way, cask ale is what many people incorrectly refer to as "warm beer". It's pumped, no pressure involved, just elbow grease, and it is around 56 degrees because it is kept in a keg facility below ground level, and it's excellent. Unfortunately, my health won't allow me to travel anymore, so the cask ale is just a memory.
C. T.

[ctchandler]

^^^^^^^^
Most people who regularly eat McDonald's don't also regularly eat S&B/Garage and vice versa. See how that works?

Urbanized,
Unlike the way I do beer, I haven't darkened the door of a fast food burger since the late 70's, so I agree with you. I did actually darken their doors when the boys wanted a McDonald's, but I didn't eat there.
C. T.

[jerrywall]

I'm similar. I keep PBR on my tap at home, yet my bars of choice are Skinny Slims, The Patriarch, and Fassler' Hall, where I will only get craft and usually Oklahoma brews.

Speaking of warm beer, yesterday was my first experience with an Oklahoma bar intentionally serving a warm beer. Skinny's in Edmond served Samuel Smith's Imperial Stout fairly warm. Was a surprise.

[ctchandler]

Imo a true craft beer enthusiast will know who owns the brewery of their choice.

Bille,
A bartender tried to tell me that Prairie was local and I pointed out that they are actually from Tulsa, almost local. I also had a bartender in Maryland try to tell me that Yuengling was German beer when in fact it's the oldest brewery in the U. S. and from Pennsylvania. I pretty well know my beer, so I totally agree with you.
C. T.

[ctchandler]

I'm similar. I keep PBR on my tap at home, yet my bars of choice are Skinny Slims, The Patriarch, and Fassler' Hall, where I will only get craft and usually Oklahoma brews.

Speaking of warm beer, yesterday was my first experience with an Oklahoma bar intentionally serving a warm beer. Skinny's in Edmond served Samuel Smith's Imperial Stout fairly warm. Was a surprise.

Jerrywall,
I was buying various craft beers for my kegerator and I think I'm going to crank it up again when I move. The only problem was, I never was really successful with the temperature, I either had a large head on my beer, or the beer froze before I finished the pony keg. I have a really good replacement control for the temperature (my Danby and a lot of brand kegerator controls aren't very good) but just haven't found that magic setting. Still, I do enjoy the craft beer on tap at home. I usually buy two different ones at a time but I haven't used it since a couple of the newer local beers started, like Anthem (I love their Count Pedro), Black Mesa, and Roughtail. I'm looking forward to those.
C. T.

[Bunty]

Yup, even in states with strong craft brew cultures, and great beer laws, Coors and Bud still dominate sales. Plus you have the constant absorption of local breweries (Heineken just bought out Lagunitas for example), so even if you think you're buying local craft beer, there's a good chance you're buying from one of the giants (Goose Island, Leinenkugel, Shock Top, Blue Moon, Pyramid, Red Hook, etc).

This new brewery is surely purely local. Hopefully, it won't be sold off anytime soon: ironmonkbeer

[Urbanized]

Urbanized,
Unlike the way I do beer, I haven't darkened the door of a fast food burger since the late 70's, so I agree with you. I did actually darken their doors when the boys wanted a McDonald's, but I didn't eat there.
C. T.

C.T., I must admit to having eaten much McDonald's with your oldest son, but probably not as much McDonald's as Taco Bell...

[Urbanized]

BTW, I've also had many beers with him, but they were mostly Coors/Bud/Miller because:

1. We didn't know any better, and
2. We were broke.

[jerrywall]

And for me, 3. Because I wanted to pick up a case of beer on a Sunday.

[bchris02]

And for me, 3. Because I wanted to pick up a case of beer on a Sunday.

True. Or...you could get one of COOP's 3.2 ABW brews. I personally actually like Briefcase Brown. Anyways, there really isn't anything wrong with liking Budweiser if that's what you like. When I started drinking beer I liked Budweiser pretty well. I really don't like the watery 3.2 version sold in Oklahoma but if I am in another state, a real Budweiser isn't so bad.

Yuengling, like Fat Tire, is very overrated. It isn't terrible and in fact I would consider it decent. It isn't what many people in Oklahoma make it out to be though. Sometimes the beers or the foods you can't easily get are the most hyped and the most wanted, even if they aren't the best. One only has to look at the aura surrounding In-N-Out to see that.

[ctchandler]

Yuengling, like Fat Tire, is very overrated. It isn't terrible and in fact I would consider it decent. It isn't what many people in Oklahoma make it out to be though. Sometimes the beers or the foods you can't easily get are the most hyped and the most wanted, even if they aren't the best.

Bchris,
I wasn't making Yuengling out to be anything other than a decent beer, I was just passing on a story about somebody local that thought Yuengling was a German beer. I don't know very many people that have ever heard of it, so to say many people in Oklahoma might be a stretch. I lived up there for three and a half years. I also enjoyed Rolling Rock which at that time was only sold in pony bottles (eight ounce) and only a tri-state area. That was in the 60s. I enjoyed Ballentines and Schaefer and a few others that were mostly local. My least favorite was Fitz out of New York, but it was still beer and almost like Will Rogers, I never met a beer that I didn't like!
C. T.

[bchris02]

Bchris,
I wasn't making Yuengling out to be anything other than a decent beer, I was just passing on a story about somebody local that thought Yuengling was a German beer. I don't know very many people that have ever heard of it, so to say many people in Oklahoma might be a stretch. I lived up there for three and a half years. I also enjoyed Rolling Rock which at that time was only sold in pony bottles (eight ounce) and only a tri-state area. That was in the 60s. I enjoyed Ballentines and Schaefer and a few others that were mostly local. My least favorite was Fitz out of New York, but it was still beer and almost like Will Rogers, I never met a beer that I didn't like!
C. T.

Right, but a lot of people have hyped up Yuengling to be to die for. Personally I like Yuengling. I drank it all the time when I lived in Charlotte. However, after discovering the many great Oklahoma beers by COOP and Anthem breweries, I really don't find myself missing Yuengling that much.

I can agree with you that I've almost never met a beer I didn't like...with the exception of Bud Light and PBR.

[Urbanized]

Yuengling has a mystique here born mostly out of the fact that it hasn't been available west of the Mississippi, and people EAST of the river used to have a similar curiosity regarding Coors. There IS something to be said for the "you can't get it here" syndrome. That said, the Fat Tire hype is also based on a couple of other factors:

1. There are more beers in that Belgian ale wheelhouse these days, many of which do a better job. Simply put, others have now surpassed them. And...

2. Fat Tire is not quite as good today as it was a decade ago. Scaling the brewery up caused it to lose something. I've had brewer friends suggest it had something to do with live yeast and lack thereof, but I really don't know. All I know is that it has lost a step.

[bradh]

Yuengling has a mystique here born mostly out of the fact that it hasn't been available west of the Mississippi, and people EAST of the river used to have a similar curiosity regarding Coors. There IS something to be said for the "you can't get it here" syndrome. That said, the Fat Tire hype is also based on a couple of other factors:

1. There are more beers in that Belgian ale wheelhouse these days, many of which do a better job. Simply put, others have now surpassed them. And...

2. Fat Tire is not quite as good today as it was a decade ago. Scaling the brewery up caused it to lose something. I've had brewer friends suggest it had something to do with live yeast and lack thereof, but I really don't know. All I know is that it has lost a step.

I don't care so much about Fat Tire, I care more about other New Belgium offerings.

Yuengling:Right Coasters::Shiner Bock:Texans

[bchris02]

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