How would you improve the city

[mranderson]

Luke made a comment about having "a few million bucks around." That triggered a thought.

If someone gave you several million dollars, and said you could do anything you wanted to improve the city, what would you do?

Remember. It would have to comply with CURRENT laws, and could be a public works project or a private project.

Me. I would buy Crossroads mall, expand it, and totally remodel it. Maybe even tear it down and rebuild it. It would be the most modern and up to date mall in the area... And no gang bangers would be allowed inside!

[metro]

I'd clean up our highways, paint all the underpasses, powerwash the old concrete, and buy weedeaters for the mowing crews, maybe even plant some shrubs if any money is left. or.....donate it all to the I-40 relocation since Istook thinks we should pay for it

[Midtowner]

I'd probably invest in some real estate. Maybe build and develop a new subdivision out in the Northeastern part of the city or on the southside. That's where the money is right now.

I really thin that public improvement projects are best done by the city, potentially with funds from private enterprise. The only way you'd get me to invest money into public works would be if I saw that I'd end up making some kind of profit on it.

Now, if I were mayor, on the city council, or in some position to plan public works programs, that'd be another story entirely

I really like the direction they're going though. I think they have a firm grasp on what's important as far as developing the city.

-- Oh, and anderson.. how would you keep the "gangbangers" out of Crossroads? Would you only allow middle-aged white people with children? Just curious on what your plan is here...

[mranderson]

"-- Oh, and anderson.. how would you keep the "gangbangers" out of Crossroads? Would you only allow middle-aged white people with children? Just curious on what your plan is here..."

One of the rare times you ask a fair question. Security guards would be posted at all doors at all times. If they looked like trouble makers, they would be asked to leave. Since it is private property, the mall would have the right to refuse service to anyone.

[Midtowner]

"-- Oh, and anderson.. how would you keep the "gangbangers" out of Crossroads? Would you only allow middle-aged white people with children? Just curious on what your plan is here..."

One of the rare times you ask a fair question. Security guards would be posted at all doors at all times. If they looked like trouble makers, they would be asked to leave. Since it is private property, the mall would have the right to refuse service to anyone.

A tough plan. You're almost guaranteed to be slapped with a ridiculous amount of discrimination lawsuits.

I used to work for a gentleman that worked for a high-end consumer electronics store many years ago. Before you could enter, they would verify that you had x amount of money open to buy on your credit card

[mranderson]

A tough plan. You're almost guaranteed to be slapped with a ridiculous amount of discrimination lawsuits.

I used to work for a gentleman that worked for a high-end consumer electronics store many years ago. Before you could enter, they would verify that you had x amount of money open to buy on your credit card

Let them sue. Private property is private property.

[Keith]

I would also put the money into improving the city streets, especially the ones in NE. OKC that have needed repairs for years. I would also use it to completely re-do I-40 from I-35 to I-44. That stretch of the interstate is an embarrassment to OKC.

I would also donate a large chunk of it to the Jesus House and to the Grace Rescue Mission, to help them pay their bills and to feed the homeless. If there is anything left, I'll buy myself a Big Mac.

[metro]

you guys need to start a forum so you can pick fights with each other

[Midtowner]

Let them sue. Private property is private property.

Private property is not a defense when someone sues you for discrimination. Especially if they contend it was racial discrimination. In this case, you'd better have some very strict guidelines as to what constitutes a "potential troublemaker".

[mranderson]

Private property is not a defense when someone sues you for discrimination. Especially if they contend it was racial discrimination. In this case, you'd better have some very strict guidelines as to what constitutes a "potential troublemaker".

I doubt gang bangers are smart enough to even try and sue. Plus, if I post the fact I reserve the right to refuse service to anyone, that covers it. Besides, who says it is discrimination? Plus it falls under criminal trespass. A person in charge of property has the right to ask someone to leave. If they refuse, it is criminal trespass.

I see signs all over the west coast that say "we reserve the right to refuse service to anyone." They are in plain sight, with no guidelines. I have never heard of any lawsuits, otherwise, they would not be there. Plus, discrimination goes federal, so, I could use those signs as evidence in my favor.

Now. This topic is about what people would do with the money if they were given it. Not about the gang members who make most people scared to shop at Crossroads.

[metro]

I thought this was more for "non-profit" ideas for our city and not ways you would make money with given money. Although I now see the part where it says it could be private. I think we should have thoughts on both sides as of course everyone would want to use it for personal gain as a first choice.

[floater]

If I had ten million dollars, I would donate all of it to OKC Beautiful and turn it into a supercharged force for beautfication.

$2.5 million staff endowment
I don't know who's on staff now, but I would beef up the resource-generating staff and add "account managers", a full-time grantwriter, and a full-time fundraiser/community events manager. The account managers would sell "advertising space" on different OKCB projects mentioned below. For 3-month, 6-month, 9-month, and yearly "leases", they would pay for the maintainence of all or a portion of these projects. These committments would vary in size, thus prices.

Unlike Adopt-A-Highway, however, a full-time carpenter could construct their sign to the customer's taste, within reason. Two full-time landscape architects would be responsible for design project flowerbeds, etc and work with the city's parks, public works and planning departments to find other project areas within the city.

This assumes that there already is a volunteer coordinator, accountant/business manager.

$1.5 million marketing fund
This would be a long term fund to encourage businesses and groups to become "ad customers" via print ads, freebies. This would also fund a newsletter that profiles the best new projects and continue the "Best Lawn" program. Hopefully, ad costs could be split with the city and state with their own initiatives.

$6 millon project fund
This would go to fund initial projects that sponsorships would maintain:

Downtown tree program
Plots on highway interchanges
Flower beds on boulevards such as Lincoln, Shields, Classen, and the new one to replace the crosstown
Neighborhood gateways

[okcpulse]

Right on, floater! I know if I ever won a multi-million dollar joackpot, or mysteriously inherited millions from some long-lost relative, I'd turn Oklahoma City into one giant botanical garden, place artistic stamps on the concrete walls of I-44 like they did in Albuquerque with I-40, and sponsor homeless shelters downtown by turning them into state-of-the-art shelters. In case you haven't heard, Oklahoma City has become notable across the country for providing good care and shelter for the homeless.

I would also lobby for a special local fund, public or private, to make all of Oklahoma City's freeways and major arterials as smooth and nice as the Lake Hefner Parkway.

In a nutshell, I want to make this city a place where out-of-town people would WANT to move to.

[okcpulse]

Or a place where people would WANT to visit.

[Patrick]

lol! floater, you pretty much said what I was going to say. One of the greatest needs for our city it to improve its overall appearance. This involves city beautification, public art projects, landscaping, etc. I think OKC Beautiful would put the money to good use.

One thing I'd consider.....instead of paintings on the walls surrounding I-44, I'd probably grow vines, similar to those growing on the walls surrounding the Bricktown canal. Not as much maintenance involved.....wouldn't have to be repainted.

[Midtowner]

I doubt gang bangers are smart enough to even try and sue. Plus, if I post the fact I reserve the right to refuse service to anyone, that covers it. Besides, who says it is discrimination? Plus it falls under criminal trespass. A person in charge of property has the right to ask someone to leave. If they refuse, it is criminal trespass.

I see signs all over the west coast that say "we reserve the right to refuse service to anyone." They are in plain sight, with no guidelines. I have never heard of any lawsuits, otherwise, they would not be there. Plus, discrimination goes federal, so, I could use those signs as evidence in my favor.

Now. This topic is about what people would do with the money if they were given it. Not about the gang members who make most people scared to shop at Crossroads.

There have been many lawsuits by kids who were followed around in Department stores, inappropriately accused of shoplifting, etc. It's not the kids you worry about, it's the parents. When the parents hear their kids are being discriminated against, they'll without a doubt see dollar signs.

The best way to "fix" such a mall would be to change the types of stores that were available there. In other words, get your stores to price the thugs out of the market. Want an excellent example of this working? Check out Penn Square mall. It's close to some of the worst neighborhoods in the city, yet it's not an unsafe place by any stretch.

Crossroads on the other hand has businesses like "The Dollar Store" and "Payless Shoes" -- businesses that don't attract affluent clientelles.

[floater]

Thanks okcpulse. Beautfication is a big issue with me. Lonely Planet's description for OKC begins like this:

"Oklahoma's capital is like a 1976 Coup de Ville with a broken fender and big horns up front: it's big and ugly, but oozes a style all its own." While it's kinda affectionate, it says that OKC's so bad, it's good.

That's cool about the homeless care rep. I know Anthony McDermid's TAP designed the City Rescue Mission.

[Patrick]

Midtowner, you are right on in your comparison of Penn Square to Crossroads. To the south, Penn Square does have some pretty low-end neighborhoods. But, in contrast, the Wileman-Bell Isle Neighborhood directly around the mall, and the close proximity of the Nichols Hills/Waterford areas keeps it going. Unfortunately, Crossroads doesn't have areas like that within close distance. BUT, Crossroads is the only mall on the southside, and as mranderson has pointed out, some of the most wealthy zip codes are on the south side. Also, Crossroads has probably the best traffic location of any of the malls, at the crossing of 2 major interstates. I think it's all mismangement.

I think the point mranderson was trying to make was that Crossroads security needs to do more to evict troublesome youth from the area. Both Quail Springs and Penn Square security are pretty good about doing this, but Crossroads Mall security just tolerates it.
I suppose your suggestion of attracting more upscale tenants would help as well though.

[Luke]

I'd buy lots of property downtown and build small/medium sized urban/modern residences/lofts/apts/townhouses. I'd also add tons of greenery around the area. If there was any money left over, I'd pioneer an East/West downtown rail transit from the Arts District to East Bricktown. It would prepare the way for people who live downtown and don't want to walk the, admittedly, short distance, to the other side of downtown. It would also be expandable of course.

[Midtowner]

I think the point mranderson was trying to make was that Crossroads security needs to do more to evict troublesome youth from the area. Both Quail Springs and Penn Square security are pretty good about doing this, but Crossroads Mall security just tolerates it.
I suppose your suggestion of attracting more upscale tenants would help as well though.

Patrick, my point is that unless you want to be constantly defending yourself from discrimination lawsuits (and losing), evicting "troublesome" youth is going to be quite problematic. How do you identify which youth are "troublesome"? By the clothes they wear? By the cars they drive? By their income level?

Of course Crossroads security tolerates it.

Put yourself in the shoes of their management. Would you like to give some rent-a-cop with an 8th grade education the power to decide which youths are "troublesome"? BEGGING for a lawsuit.

As I said, the only way you can change the mall is by not having anything that would attract a certain element. There is clearly something valid there. Look at Penn Square about 5 years ago vs. today. They had not remodeled in quite some time. Their facilities were in very "so-so" condition, and Quail Springs was beating their pants off. Now, they are doing quite well.

Besides, perhaps being the low-rent mall is exactly what Crossroads wants to be. I'm not sure how profitable they are or what their target audience is. Too often our focus is the eviction of lower-class people in order to make things more appealing to those of us that are not.

[ClipedWingAngel]

Floater you are RIGHT ON! OKCPULSE, we are coming! From the upper North East, from the West Coast, From the cold Midwest, oh and from FLORIDA!

I am happy to be here. My regret was not doing so 10 months earlier. I cudda had a betta life in those 10 months with cleaner air, more sunshine and friendlier neighbors.

[Patrick]

I've noticed something about the security at Penn Square and Quail Springs....when youth are crowding the hallways causing trouble and not shopping, the security ask them to leave, and in fact, at times, even escort them out the building. I've seen this at Quail Springs numerous times.

You are right though.....I've talked to mall management, and they've actually used certain techniques to keep low-income youth out of the mall. The first first technique was to ax the arcade at the mall. I've asked Bob Landdeck, manger at Penn Square, several times, why they didn't try to attract an arcade liek Tilt back after Alladin's Castle shut down. He told me that the arcade wouldn't attract their target audience....their target audience being middle to higher income professionals and young professionals.

I've noticed when I go to both Penn square and Quail Springs, there is a difference in the clientale. Quail Springs seems to attract more families with kids. Penn Square seems to attract more professionals. This hasn't always been the case, but in the last 5 years, as you mention, Penn Square has shifted to this focus group. I think that's why they're pretty picky on who the lease to. They'd actually rather leave a space vacant for awhile or lease it out on short term leases, while they search for a national retailer or high end retailer, then lease a space out to a lower end retailer. Bob told me he's had several proposals by companies like Dollar Tree, A Dollar, Dollar General, etc., but he's turned them down everytime. He said he really didn't want to allow Payless Shoe Source in the mall (in fact he had turned them down several times), but he had quite a few people requesting them, so he went ahead and gave them a long term lease.

Also, I've asked Bob why they didn't try to build a larger stadium seating theater somewhere on the property. Again, they'd rather provide quality and convience rather than a showy large theater to attract teany-boppers!

[Luke]

Yeah, I was kinda bummed that they got a Payless...

[Midtowner]

I've noticed something about the security at Penn Square and Quail Springs....when youth are crowding the hallways causing trouble and not shopping, the security ask them to leave, and in fact, at times, even escort them out the building. I've seen this at Quail Springs numerous times.

Okay, that's feasible. Anderson's proposal of not letting them in at all is begging for a lawsuit. But yeah, now that you mention it, I siced security on several obnoxious people in my 5 years working at that mall.

You are right though.....I've talked to mall management, and they've actually used certain techniques to keep low-income youth out of the mall. The first first technique was to ax the arcade at the mall. I've asked Bob Landdeck, manger at Penn Square, several times, why they didn't try to attract an arcade liek Tilt back after Alladin's Castle shut down. He told me that the arcade wouldn't attract their target audience....their target audience being middle to higher income professionals and young professionals.

I've noticed when I go to both Penn square and Quail Springs, there is a difference in the clientale. Quail Springs seems to attract more families with kids. Penn Square seems to attract more professionals. This hasn't always been the case, but in the last 5 years, as you mention, Penn Square has shifted to this focus group. I think that's why they're pretty picky on who the lease to. They'd actually rather leave a space vacant for awhile or lease it out on short term leases, while they search for a national retailer or high end retailer, then lease a space out to a lower end retailer. Bob told me he's had several proposals by companies like Dollar Tree, A Dollar, Dollar General, etc., but he's turned them down everytime. He said he really didn't want to allow Payless Shoe Source in the mall (in fact he had turned them down several times), but he had quite a few people requesting them, so he went ahead and gave them a long term lease.

Also, I've asked Bob why they didn't try to build a larger stadium seating theater somewhere on the property. Again, they'd rather provide quality and convience rather than a showy large theater to attract teany-boppers!

That's my point about Crossroads. I think it's actually the way it is on purpose. It has a target audience -- it tries to lure people away from the flea markets to something that's just slightly better.

Penn Square has really attracted a wonderful clientelle. They've really pushed all of their department stores to upgrade. Just look at the Dillards there if you want an example. That place is cavernous and full of nice (and expensive) things.

I'd like to see them lose Foley's and Pennies in favor of a higher end department store. I think it's the only mall in the state that could realistically pull that off.

[Luke]

Penn Square, lose the JCPenneys and get a Macy's.