Christopher Columbus Day in okc may be over

[Tydude]

OKC activists to request that city council replace Columbus Day with Indigenous Peoples' Day | Red Dirt Report

[dankrutka]

If you've never read Howard Zinn's chapter on Columbus then give it a read: Columbus, The Indians, and Human Progress

Columbus is incredible important historically for several reasons, but we shouldn't celebrate such brutality.

[LakeEffect]

OKC doesn't "celebrate" the day in any way now, does it? Do schools get off? I know it's not a paid holiday for City of Oklahoma City staff; it's a regular work day.

[Jersey Boss]

County workers celebrate with a paid holiday. Parking meters do not need to be fed that day either.

[trousers]

I don't think its a county holiday.
http://countyclerk.oklahomacounty.or...b/holidays.pdf

[zookeeper]

Purging America's Heroes on Creators.com

[Snowman]

Purging America's Heroes on Creators.com

Ironically it may have been the British having actively tried to downplay his significance that may have been behind him being honored with several prominent land areas/cities/etc in the us and the capital having Colombia attached to them shortly after the revolution.

[Jersey Boss]

I don't think its a county holiday.
http://countyclerk.oklahomacounty.or...b/holidays.pdf

Good find. The celebration is observed in some counties and not others. As you can see, Cleveland County does give it as a holiday. It is still a universal holiday as far as Federal Government is concerned as there is no mail delivery.

http://clevelandcountyok.com/documentcenter/view/797

[dankrutka]

Purging America's Heroes on Creators.com

You can't make this stuff up. This is actually part of the case for keeping Columbus as a hero:

Acting on a belief in their racial, religious and cultural superiority, they created the greatest nation on earth. And people who got in their way were shoved aside, subjugated, repressed and ruled.

I'll never forget hearing Pat Buchanan (author of the article) complain on TV years ago about the loss of the good ol' days and someone asked him, are you talking about during segregation? He just kind of sat there for a second. He clearly hadn't thought about it from a different perspective and he clearly wasn't that interested in the point of view of others. His mind is still stuck in a time when white, male supremacy was accepted culturally and legally. Most people do not go after George Washington and Thomas Jefferson despite their status as slave owners because of the systemic issues (but it's an important discussion), but human rights abusers like Columbus and Andrew Jackson have no place as heroes in a society that values everyone. Their crimes were not minor. Times have changed and that requires reflection. As Faulkner said, the past isn't dead. It isn't even past.

[dankrutka]

Good article on Anadarko making the change and OKC being pushed to do so: OKC City Council hears Native American request to replace Columbus Day with Indigenous Peoples' Day | Red Dirt Report

[zookeeper]

Double post. Sorry. See below.

[zookeeper]

You can't make this stuff up. This is actually part of the case for keeping Columbus as a hero: "Acting on a belief in their racial, religious and cultural superiority, they created the greatest nation on earth. And people who got in their way were shoved aside, subjugated, repressed and ruled."

Remember how Sears used to advertise their products as Good/Better/Best? Do you throw out the good because it wasn't the best? It's only the greatest country ever built in modern times! That's what Pat is saying here. No, it wasn't ideal. In fact, let's just put it into context of his column - which you did NOT do.

What did all those named above, who would be Class-A war criminals at the Southern Poverty Law Center, have in common?

All were white males. All achieved greatly. All believed that the people whence they came were superior and possessed of a superior faith, Christianity, and hence fit to rule what Rudyard Kipling called the "lesser breeds without the Law."

Acting on a belief in their racial, religious and cultural superiority, they created the greatest nation on earth. And people who got in their way were shoved aside, subjugated, repressed and ruled.

As for the Confederates of the Lost Cause, they yielded to superior force only after four years of fighting, but their battle flag has ever after been seen as a banner of rebellion, bravery and defiance.

And those tearing down the battle flags, and dumping over the monuments and statues, and sandblasting the names off buildings and schools, what have they ever accomplished?

They inherited the America these men built, but are ashamed at how it was built. And now they watch paralyzed as the peoples of the Third World, whom their grandfathers ruled, come to dispossess them of the patrimony for which they feel so guilty.

The new barbarians will make short work of them.

That's the context. Since it was done the way it was done, let's retroactively rectify the sins of the ages old cultural icons and erase them to make ourselves "feel" better. Let's airbrush on a whim and wipe the "evil" out of history. And in so doing, turn a blind eye while we lose that country they built. Pat has been spot-on when it comes to our jobs being shipped away, to the PC social leftism that turns the world upside down to "feel better" (notably the "white guilt" BS - pseudo social science actually taught in our universities!), to the illegal immigrant invasion that will completely change the culture of Europe and the USA (already has, but it's getting ready to be completely unrecognizable.) Damn the White Male! Oh, the humanity! The Guilt! Hand it all over to those who seek to ruin this country from La Raza to Black Lives Matter to radical Islam. But, by golly, we got rid of Christopher Columbus and all those evil white men.

Absurd. And political correctness runs amok thanks to cultural leftists teaching this crap in universities. Shame(!) We are, I am afraid, witnessing the last days of the Republic as we welcome in the mob rule of pure democracy. Complete with the whitewash of our history.

[mugofbeer]

Since we all know Christopher Columbus was only the first RECORDED discoverer of America, perhaps the Holiday should celebrate all of the Founders-- from the Native Americans who crossed the land bridge from Asia to the Vikings to the various other groups who made it here that DNA testing is starting to uncover. Lets just celebrate our diverse heritage and not focus on one individual who lived in a time that people had flaws some cant accept as part of the culture of the time. I am sure that flaws can be found in every society worldwide over every century. Call it Founders Day and teach about them all.

[Ginkasa]

Remember how Sears used to advertise their products as Good/Better/Best? Do you throw out the good because it wasn't the best? It's only the greatest country ever built in modern times! That's what Pat is saying here. No, it wasn't ideal. In fact, let's just put it into context of his column - which you did NOT do.

What did all those named above, who would be Class-A war criminals at the Southern Poverty Law Center, have in common?

All were white males. All achieved greatly. All believed that the people whence they came were superior and possessed of a superior faith, Christianity, and hence fit to rule what Rudyard Kipling called the "lesser breeds without the Law."

Acting on a belief in their racial, religious and cultural superiority, they created the greatest nation on earth. And people who got in their way were shoved aside, subjugated, repressed and ruled.

As for the Confederates of the Lost Cause, they yielded to superior force only after four years of fighting, but their battle flag has ever after been seen as a banner of rebellion, bravery and defiance.

And those tearing down the battle flags, and dumping over the monuments and statues, and sandblasting the names off buildings and schools, what have they ever accomplished?

They inherited the America these men built, but are ashamed at how it was built. And now they watch paralyzed as the peoples of the Third World, whom their grandfathers ruled, come to dispossess them of the patrimony for which they feel so guilty.

The new barbarians will make short work of them.

That's the context. Since it was done the way it was done, let's retroactively rectify the sins of the ages old cultural icons and erase them to make ourselves "feel" better. Let's airbrush on a whim and wipe the "evil" out of history. And in so doing, turn a blind eye while we lose that country they built. Pat has been spot-on when it comes to our jobs being shipped away, to the PC social leftism that turns the world upside down to "feel better" (notably the "white guilt" BS - pseudo social science actually taught in our universities!), to the illegal immigrant invasion that will completely change the culture of Europe and the USA (already has, but it's getting ready to be completely unrecognizable.) Damn the White Male! Oh, the humanity! The Guilt! Hand it all over to those who seek to ruin this country from La Raza to Black Lives Matter to radical Islam. But, by golly, we got rid of Christopher Columbus and all those evil white men.

Absurd. And political correctness runs amok thanks to cultural leftists teaching this crap in universities. Shame(!) We are, I am afraid, witnessing the last days of the Republic as we welcome in the mob rule of pure democracy. Complete with the whitewash of our history.

Politics is leaking.

[mugofbeer]

Politics leaks from those who want to erase our history, too.

[dankrutka]

In fact, let's just put it into context of his column - which you did NOT do.

The quote I posted was consistent with Buchanan's article and message... and even the passage you posted. No one is saying all white males should be stricken - in fact, I actually made that exact point in my previous post. But Columbus literally ordered men to put other human beings to death, cut off parts of their bodies, and all in the name of gold and God. Is that who we should celebrate and honor? This has nothing to do with being "PC," and everything to do with evaluating the historical record and our values. If you agree with genocide - literally, the Arawak people are gone from planet earth - then that's your call, but that's not in line with my values. Is being anti-genocide (i.e., elminating a people because of their race) in line with your values? The details are pretty horrifying if you'd like to read them.

There are few calls to completely be rid of the legacies of Jefferson, Washington, or Franklin (who actually condemned American slavery and the inequality of the Constitution at the Constitutional Convention). It's funny you speak of "whitewashing history" because that's what has been taught in schools for most of our history. Our history and country can stand on it's own two feet... we don't need to avoid the blemishes to be proud of what America was and is.

[dankrutka]

Politics leaks from those who want to erase our history, too.

Absolutely. And that's kind of the point. Some people want to continue to suppress historical perspectives that have traditionally been suppressed (e.g., indigenous, black, women...). Again, you'll never see me argue that Columbus shouldn't be taught. He has to be taught. But the telling should be complex, multifacted, and from multiple perspectives. I'm not hear to bash Columbus. He's long gone. I just want the historical record set straight.

[Jeepnokc]

County workers celebrate with a paid holiday. Parking meters do not need to be fed that day either.

Actually, if it isn't a city holiday....meter maids will ticket you. We made this argument to the great late Judge Manger a few years before his passing and he just chuckled and grinned as he told us to go pay the $15. Wasn't worth the effort to take up to higher court and not enough people being ticketed on the once or twice a year this happens to make it class action worthy.

[Jersey Boss]

Actually, if it isn't a city holiday....meter maids will ticket you. We made this argument to the great late Judge Manger a few years before his passing and he just chuckled and grinned as he told us to go pay the $15. Wasn't worth the effort to take up to higher court and not enough people being ticketed on the once or twice a year this happens to make it class action worthy.

Jeep, I stand corrected. I am a victim of the dreaded syndrome of "back in the day..." The agency I work for used to provide services in OKC which we no longer do. I remember how that used to be a free day at the meters and thought that it still was. Any idea when that changed?

[Edgar]

'89 Day celcbrations need to go the way of Columbus Day. Our fellow native citizens don't find the history quaint. remember Fallin's hilarious speech at the gop convention about the land run participants proved ambitious people didn't need help from their government to succeed.

[SouthSide]

My Oklahoma history class is but a distant memory but wasn't the 89 land run for the unassigned lands?

[jerrywall]

My Oklahoma history class is but a distant memory but wasn't the 89 land run for the unassigned lands?

Yes. And the requirements to improve the land and work it in order to eventually obtain title to it were tough.

[mugofbeer]

'89 Day celcbrations need to go the way of Columbus Day. Our fellow native citizens don't find the history quaint. remember Fallin's hilarious speech at the gop convention about the land run participants proved ambitious people didn't need help from their government to succeed.

I'm sorry. While there is no doubt Native Americans were screwed over in a big way across the nation, what you propose is just political correctness. History is choc full of wars and one group of people conquering another. If we drop 89er day then we should also drop the 4th of July. After all, our native citizens may possibly not find the history quaint. Maybe we'll also need to stop having turkey dinners at Thanksgiving because, after all, the native citizens offered the Pilgrims food and then found themselves a conquered people. I dont love how everything scripted out but I'm not going to be ashamed, either.

[dankrutka]

I'm sorry. While there is no doubt Native Americans were screwed over in a big way across the nation, what you propose is just political correctness. History is choc full of wars and one group of people conquering another. If we drop 89er day then we should also drop the 4th of July. After all, our native citizens may possibly not find the history quaint. Maybe we'll also need to stop having turkey dinners at Thanksgiving because, after all, the native citizens offered the Pilgrims food and then found themselves a conquered people. I dont love how everything scripted out but I'm not going to be ashamed, either.

I think the point is to quit reenacting the land run, which is usually done without historical context or explanation, not quit teaching about it. Historical simulations done in schools are almost always terrible teaching that is historically inaccurate and serves little educational purpose.

I taught about the Land Run using multiple sources including primary documents, the end scene from Far and Away, maps of indigenous lands, the aims and methods of Boomers, etc. Going outside and inaccurately reenacting the Land Run would have added little to our understanding. I did take my students outside and talk about how the Land Run happened.

Also, these discussions remain far more productive and useful if we actually argue the merit of specific cases. The PC argument is a strawman because no one is arguing in this thread to get rid of Thanksgiving, the 4th of Juiy, and every celebration. If you understand the history around Columbus then changing Columbus Day is a no brainer. Columbus should be taught for his accomplishments, but also for his brutality and greed. He just shouldn't be turned into a hero. The Land Run similarly needs a complex telling, which reenactments rarely lead to.

[dankrutka]

My Oklahoma history class is but a distant memory but wasn't the 89 land run for the unassigned lands?

Here's a good, short history of how the terms Boomer and Sooner came out of the Land Run: Better to be Okies than Boomers and Sooners - NonDoc