Oklahoma liquor laws

[bchris02]

Anheuser- Busch leaves Oklahoma trade group over liquor law dispute | NewsOK.com

Since money talks, hopefully this provides incentive for the state to actually get it done next session.

[turnpup]

We travelled to Arkansas and Missouri over the holiday weekend. In both states (in the particular counties in which we were situated), alcohol is allowed to be sold in grocery stores, convenience stores...even drug stores. It was so nice! We went to the grocery to get some snacks, and were able to stock up on beverages at the same time (including strong beer already chilled!). Only one stop. And we didn't have to worry about our little girl being with us. I can tell you unequivocally that absolutely nothing bad happened to her while being in the presence of bottles of liquor. She was unscathed. Didn't start wanting to drink. Didn't burst into a ball of flames. Nothing. Now if you talk about the candy aisle, well that's a different story!

[jerrywall]

Since money talks, hopefully this provides incentive for the state to actually get it done next session.

Just to be clear, AB is not an ally or a friend to folks wanting to improve liquor laws, and those who want to bring in better and more craft beers, and to those who want to grow the craft beer industry in Oklahoma. They are wanting to make very specific laws that benefit them, and to be able to dominate the beer space in Oklahoma.

Here's LOCAL's take - But Whose Modernization?

[jerrywall]

And Sen. Bice's thoughts -

Here's my take: Right now, AB-InBev is part of BDO along with the Independent Distributors, which is in itself a conflict since AB can self-distribute their own low-point beer and independents distribute full strength. If we move to single strength, the question is: should AB be allowed to continue to self distribute full strength. (keeping in mind, most states don't allow manufacturers to do so.)

As such, BDO must choose. Do they support the independent distribution system or AB-InBev?

For those that don't know, Sen. Bice has been really leading the charge on trying to get these new laws passed.

[SouthsideSooner]

Just to be clear, AB is not an ally or a friend to folks wanting to improve liquor laws, and those who want to bring in better and more craft beers, and to those who want to grow the craft beer industry in Oklahoma. They are wanting to make very specific laws that benefit them, and to be able to dominate the beer space in Oklahoma.

Here's LOCAL's take - But Whose Modernization?

That's a very well written article. This is a comment from Bryan Kerr, President of Retail Liquor Association of Oklahoma that appears after the article...

"This is one of the best written articles that I’ve seen on “modernization” of our laws. Senator Bice introduced a simple bill to allow retail package stores to refrigerate strong beer and saw such vehement opposition from the convenience and grocery store lobbies that it bordered on threatening. The Retail Liquor Association of Oklahoma (RLAO) was originally neutral on Senator Bice’s bill because some of our member stores feared they would not be able to afford the associated costs with an upgrade while others saw it as a consumer-friendly measure whose time had come. I was in the latter camp. I argued that the Retail Liquor Association of Oklahoma needed to embrace “modernization” because, when you work against your customers’ wants, you’re working against your own best interests as well.
As the current president of the Retail Liquor Association of Oklahoma, I can tell you that I have personally had many on and offline debates with people about the changing of Oklahoma liquor laws. More often than not, the retailers and wholesalers in Oklahoma take the blame for obstructing change in order to maintain our alleged monopoly on the market. While it is true that locally-owned retail package stores have a certain degree of protection due to governmental regulations that were designed to shield the public from a product that can have a direct negative effect on society, it is quite the opposite of a monopoly. The wholesalers have to bid against every other wholesaler in the state every 60 days in order to sell and transport product to us retailers. This results in a markup on spirits that currently is less than 10% at the wholesale tier. The retailers then compete with every other retailer on every other corner in almost every other city in our state. Unlike Texas, we have no “dry” counties or even “dry” cities within a “wet” county. With few qualifications, nearly any Oklahoman can open a liquor store in our state. As a result, prices are held down by a robust and competitive market and many stores understand the value of acting quickly to consumer demands by carrying a large variety of products and responding to requests for new ones. With that said, it is far from a perfect system and there are ways to improve it.
The RLAO is currently working closely with Senator Bice on changing Oklahoma liquor laws to be more consumer friendly without moving all the power (and money) into the hands of large out-of-state (sometimes out-of-country) corporations that have no real interest in Oklahoma and its economy. There are also public safety concerns shared by the majority of Oklahomans who don’t want to see strong alcohol sold where it can more easily get into the hands of those who should not have it. Senator Bice has shown great leadership in this area and has worked to find a balance between allowing Oklahomans more convenience without hurting local economies and increasing alcohol-related crime.
The RLAO has joined LOCAL’s grassroots effort to bring single-strength beer to Oklahoma. We are also supporting the local breweries’ efforts to sell their excellent products at the point of production, much like Oklahoma wineries can now. We are asking that retail package stores have fewer days that we are forced to close, like Independence Day, Labor Day and Memorial Day. We’re asking that parents be allowed to bring their child into our stores while shopping. We’re asking that we be able to do samplings inside our store. We’re even asking that retail package stores be allowed to sell and fill growlers to further help support both the diversity of product as well as local craft brewers. We think all of these measures show a commitment to “modernization” without moving to a model that favors the “big box” or “big brews” over the hundreds of locally-owned package stores that have played by the rules set in place by the State.

In short, the RLAO supports “modernization” as long as it takes the form of giving consumers more choice in a competitive environment without killing off hundreds of local businesses or increasing the social problems that come with easier access to stronger alcohol."

[Stew]

And Sen. Bice's thoughts -



For those that don't know, Sen. Bice has been really leading the charge on trying to get these new laws passed.

I am starting to see your point.

[Stickman]

We always buy beer in Arkansas, and yes there is a difference in taste in "Bud-Lite". Try the new Bud "Black Crown" a great 6pt. Lager beer. I guess may wife and I will continue to do so until the Clark Jolly's of the world get voted out of office.

[bchris02]

We always buy beer in Arkansas, and yes there is a difference in taste in "Bud-Lite". Try the new Bud "Black Crown" a great 6pt. Lager beer. I guess may wife and I will continue to do so until the Clark Jolly's of the world get voted out of office.

A few light beers like Bud Light and Coors Light aren't much different in their 3.2 form as their real counterparts. However, there is a huge difference in taste between 3.2 versions of full-flavored beer and the real thing. Even regular Budweiser has a significant difference. Oklahoma Budweiser tastes closer to Bud Light than it does Budweiser in other states. The other night I had a real Blue Moon for the first time since I had been in Oklahoma, since most bars/restaurants that serve Blue Moon serve the 3.2 version. I couldn't believe how much more flavor it had. The biggest advantage to doing away with 3.2 beer is taste, not getting drunk faster.

I think it's important to refer to real beer as "normal strength" or "real beer" rather than high point or strong beer. Referring it as "strong beer" gives the impression that people are wanting a stronger product to get drunk faster (which will put more drunks on the road). What Oklahomans really want is the same products people in 45 other states take for granted.

[MagzOK]

Bottom line is all these retailers that sell real bear (hot) don't want to lose sales to grocery stores that would start carrying the same stuff if laws were changed. I don't care. I want to buy what I want at a place that is convenient for me -- at the grocery store -- where I buy all my other consumption items. I also would like to have wine shipped to my house, because the distributers here don't carry what I prefer to drink nor can they get it (supposedly.) And being worried about alcohol getting in the wrong hands and increasing alcohol-related crimes? Come on, what a line. It wouldn't be any different than now. But seriously, it's all about the monopoly of the Oklahoma distributers.

[bchris02]

And being worried about alcohol getting in the wrong hands and increasing alcohol-related crimes? Come on, what a line. It wouldn't be any different than now.

There is a significant portion of the population in this state that opposes modernization for that reason. If this gets put to a vote and the liquor lobby wants to defeat it, religious conservatives and MADD groups are who they are going to have to energize. Expect to hear a lot of stuff about how modernization will increase underage drinking and DUI fatalities. Also expect to hear a little bit about how modernization is a sign of the End Times and will bring sin and debauchery to this state. People who actually make profit off the current system (i.e. liquor stores and distributors) are so few that they won't be a factor in a public vote. Their role is more to make sure it never gets to a vote.

[gopokes88]

Just for some perspective, were not the only state that bemoans and hates it's liquor laws. Just about every state has quirky laws and rules.

https://www.reddit.com/r/dataisbeaut...united_states/

[Wambo36]

My family and I just got back from a little summer excursion. We spent time in Milwaukee, Chicago, Indianapolis and points in between. My adult children(21 and 22) made several observations about the availability of wine and strong spirits in Walmart and local convenience stores. I remember when I was their age and noticed the same thing while in Colorado and several other places. It occurred to me that I thought things would have changed by now. The optimism of youth.

[Bunty]

Oh, how things can change in Oklahoma, if forced. The not so old people won't remember it, but an Oklahoma beer purchasing law was so quirky that it took a U. S. Supreme Court decision to end it. No, you can not require different minimum wages for males and females to buy beer. It had been 18 for females and 21 for males. It got changed to 18 for both. And surely, someone will want to bring up the fact that close to 10 years later, it got changed to 21.

Alcohol was never well accepted as part of the culture in Oklahoma beginning at statehood when it was banned. That surely helps explain the slow change of its alcohol laws since 1933.

[jerrywall]

What the Ale: Provisions now bringing Shelton Brothers imports to Oklahoma - Tulsa World: What The Ale

What's cool here is we're getting some beers that aren't even available in Texas.

[Bunty]

Oklahoma legislators did not get on the ball during last session and protect the liquor industry from sales of powdered alcohol. Sales of powdered alcohol were not banned in Oklahoma as some legislators proposed. Maybe next year.

[OKCRT]

BS-They just want people to have a choice of what they want to buy. OK is so assed backwards it's pitiful.

[Bunty]

BS-They just want people to have a choice of what they want to buy. OK is so assed backwards it's pitiful.

Right, Oklahoma being backwards has been a long, stubborn problem. That's why I would tell young Oklahomans to leave the state, especially if they can get a good, decent paying job. The state hasn't changed fast enough, since I was in my 20s and 30s, aggravated by old codgers parading as legislators at the State Capitol not wanting to do much to modernize the state or make things worse. While smoking their cigarettes and raising clouds of smoke, they were surely more interested in passing harsher laws against marijuana, instead. Now they're around my age or younger and not much has changed, except for the smoke, especially regarding the alcohol laws. Nothing major has happened in that regard, since liquor by the drink was passed in 1984. Sure, legalizing lotteries, casinos, tattoo application at least happened, but it was a long time in coming. People who visited this state while serious talk of legalization was going on would think, hey we settled those issues decades ago.

Whether young or old and not wanting to leave Oklahoma, at least do something to promote changes to modernize or abolish prohibitive laws. Failure to do so only implies you favor keeping the status quot, while helping to provide evidence why Oklahoma stays the way it is.

[jerrywall]

Nothing major? Major changes in wine production laws have lead to the creation of a significant winery industry in Oklahoma. In addition major changes and incentives in local brewing laws have resulted in dozens of new breweries, and craft brew industry that's continuing to grow, and more. We have tastings at breweries, and we're seeing more brewhouses open up. We've opened up liquor sales on election days.

You want to know part of the reason it's so hard to get stuff done? Look at post #630, a great statement by the president of the Retail Liquor Association, and how they're supporting work by Rice and Local. And then look a few posts down and someone is claiming they don't support single strength beer, even though the statement said specifically that they did. The retail industry is constantly attacked, mischaracterized, and accused of being some sort of monopoly (people really don't know what that word means). With friends like that, who needs enemies?

[jerrywall]

Oh, and something I learned today. Any of the buildings that 7-11 owns, that have other shops (very commonly liquor stores). Guess what 7-11 put in the leases? Non-compete clauses. So it would be nice if the refrigeration law passes (and single strength beer) if there was a way to accommodate so that those stores could compete.

[Bunty]

There are still liquor by the drink laws based on nonsense in Payne County where Stillwater is. In Nov. 2012, voters by nearly a 70% margin decided it was no longer too sinful for restaurants and bars to serve liquor by the drink on the Lord's day, Sunday. Yet, liquor by the drink is still banned in Payne County, if it's a holiday, like Labor Day.

[bille]

We always buy beer in Arkansas, and yes there is a difference in taste in "Bud-Lite". Try the new Bud "Black Crown" a great 6pt. Lager beer. I guess may wife and I will continue to do so until the Clark Jolly's of the world get voted out of office.

You ready to take the Pepsi challenge, brother?

Seriously, in a blind triangle test you will not be able to taste a beer brewed for the 3.2 market (at 4% ABV) versus the remaining markets at 4.2%. If you can you should put your resume in at ABI to be on the quality board!

Alcohol was never well accepted as part of the culture in Oklahoma beginning at statehood when it was banned. That surely helps explain the slow change of its alcohol laws since 1933.

Prohibition in OK even precedes state hood!

[Dustin]

Retail Liquor Association of Oklahoma supports modernization


I can't believe they have come out in support of this. These are the same people who thought selling high strength refrigerated beer in grocery stores would be a big incentive to get drunk in the parking lot......

My, how times and opinions have changed!

The RLAO has proposed these extensive changes:

1. Oklahoma should move to single strength (strong) refrigerated beer for all outlets which currently sell either “3.2” or “strong” beer

2. As a matter of convenience, wine should be available for purchase in a limited number of grocery stores

3. Customers should be able to buy mixers, corkscrews, glassware, cigars and other items inside their local retail package store

4. Customers should be able to order our products and have them delivered by a properly licensed employee of a retail package store

5. Customers should be allowed to attend tastings inside the premises of a retail package store

6. Customers should be permitted to bring their child with them into a retail package store

7. Customers should be allowed to buy liquor, wine and beer from a retail package store on Independence Day, Memorial Day and Labor Day

8. Customers should have access to growlers and “crowlers” filled and sealed at a retail package store

The RLAO has also come out strongly in favor of allowing Oklahoma breweries to sell their own full-strength product at the brewery itself, either by the glass or in cans and bottles.

“It seems silly and unfair that a consumer can go to any winery in our state and enjoy a glass of wine and then buy a bottle of that exact product but they can¹t do the same at Oklahoma breweries,” Kerr said.

In addition, the RLAO is proposing that Oklahoma wineries have a cap lifted on the amount of wine they can produce and still be able to self-distribute that wine.

Missing from the RLAO¹s proposal is the ability for liquor stores to be open before 10 a.m. or after 9 p.m.

[bchris02]

Great news!

If that is correct, the only thing standing in the way of modernization will be the religious right and MADD groups. I'll guess we will see how much power they still have in this state.

[jerrywall]

Since the beginning the RLAO has supported refrigeration in liquor stores. Thus type of misinformation hurts any progress. There may have been versions of bills they've opposed but to say they're the ones that fought refrigeration is flat out not true.

[jerrywall]

Again, folks should read what I said in #643. Once again we demonstrate why we can't make progress. Let's make enemies out of allies.