Maps 4 Neighborhoods

[ljbab728]

Bill Crum's interview with Sandino Thompson and Laura Massenat.

MAPS 4: New generation bids for quality of life investments in Oklahoma City

I was very impressed by Sandino and his thoughts and enthusiasm.

[mkjeeves]

Bingo.

[OSUFan]

My reading comprehension might suck but what is the real goal here?

[mkjeeves]

My reading comprehension might suck but what is the real goal here?

It's a video, no reading required.

[OSUFan]

I read the article but don't really have time to watch a 20 minute video right now. Is there a decent summary of what the end goal is? Not trying to be difficult because I really am curious. The article was pretty vague.

[LakeEffect]

I read the article but don't really have time to watch a 20 minute video right now. Is there a decent summary of what the end goal is? Not trying to be difficult because I really am curious. The article was pretty vague.

The end goal is to focus Maps 4 on neighborhood-level amenities/improvements.

[OSUFan]

The end goal is to focus Maps 4 on neighborhood-level amenities/improvements.

Gotcha. Definitely seems like a worthwhile cause. I worry a little that it is one of those things that sounds great in theory but might be a tad hard to actually convey to people in a city-wide vote. It is easy to point to arena or park (or even sidewalks/trails) that everyone in the city uses. A little harder when you get to a neighborhood level. If my neighborhood doesn't get touched why would I vote for it?

Not knocking the idea at all though, just thinking out loud. I'm eager to follow the group's progress.

[Laramie]

My reading comprehension might suck but what is the real goal here?

Definitely understood the MAPS 4 Kids theme. Anything you do with future MAPS initiatives will make an impact on the quality of life.

Do we need more sidewalks?
Do we need more bike lanes?
Do we need more trails?
Neighborhood beautification?
Entrances to Asian, Paseo, Stockyards City, Wheeler, Bricktown etc., districts need to be addressed?

We don't need to re-invent the wheel; no harm in taking a look at the innovative ideas in Dallas & Houston...

Will there be a need to deal with the cost overruns & the collection shortages from the MAPS 3 initiative?

Combined with last month’s shortfall, sales tax is running about $846,000 behind what was expected for the first two months of the fiscal year.

Oklahoma City sales tax falls short of target | News OK

A 'MAPS 4 Neighborhood's theme would be a great way to market the next initiative which should run from 2017 to 2024 (7 years, $800 million). More street planters, lights, sidewalks, neighborhood park improvements, trails... Long overdue; I get it.

Are we using the trails that we have created from the previous MAPS; do we build trails that are needed or trails for the sake of trails???

Would like to see MAPS continue to include a variety of projects (diversity).



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[hoya]

Yeah, I think there needs to be some more specific info on what they want to do. It sounds nice to talk about "connecting neighborhoods" and stuff like that, but what are we supposed to actually do?

[bchris02]

I like this and I think it is very badly needed in OKC.

While development in the urban core is progressing at its fast rate since urban renewal, the infrastructure still has a plethora of problems and needs some serious investment. Neighborhood specific improvements like sidewalks, streetlights, beautification, etc would go a long way towards improving the quality of life in this city. Think about what is being done on Western but on a much larger scale. It would also be great to have more and better kept neighborhood parks interconnected by a network of trails. Doing so would not only increase the quality of life but also promote healthier lifestyle choices for OKC residents.

Hopefully this comes to fruition.

[OSUFan]

I like this and I think it is very badly needed in OKC.

While development in the urban core is progressing at its fast rate since urban renewal, the infrastructure still has a plethora of problems and needs some serious investment. Neighborhood specific improvements like sidewalks, streetlights, beautification, etc would go a long way towards improving the quality of life in this city. Think about what is being done on Western but on a much larger scale. It would also be great to have more and better kept neighborhood parks interconnected by a network of trails. Doing so would not only increase the quality of life but also promote healthier lifestyle choices for OKC residents.

Hopefully this comes to fruition.

I don't disagree but how do you sell that to someone living in Mustang/Yukon, way south OKC or Edmond? Do you try to touch every single neighborhood in OKC?

[bchris02]

I don't disagree but how do you sell that to someone living in Mustang/Yukon, way south OKC or Edmond? Do you try to touch every single neighborhood in OKC?

Yeah I realize that is going to be an issue. It has to have something for suburbia as well if it is going to pass a citywide vote. I think there are a lot of things that can be improved in suburbia. Question is, what should be part of a MAPS package?

[hoya]

I don't disagree but how do you sell that to someone living in Mustang/Yukon, way south OKC or Edmond? Do you try to touch every single neighborhood in OKC?

People in Mustang, Yukon, and Edmond don't get to vote in a MAPS election. So eff them. Eff them right in the ear.

[hoya]

Personally, I'd suggest a relatively short MAPS 4 proposal. Maybe 3 years. Focus it entirely on the neighborhoods. Touch on a lot of places where MAPS support wasn't as strong. Trails, sidewalks, streetlights, things like that. Bike lanes. Maybe a few community centers.

Then you gear up for MAPS 2020. That one would be the big one that has a metro-wide light rail system. You have to get Edmond, Norman, Mid/Del all on board with it. Have a big coordinated push.

[OSUFan]

People in Mustang, Yukon, and Edmond don't get to vote in a MAPS election. So eff them. Eff them right in the ear.

Not true at all. There are a lot of people with addresses in Mustang, Yukon and Edmond who are in city limits.

When you boil things down to a neighborhood level I can't imagine that would be an easy sell (not impossible). The Civic Center might not be in my neighborhood but I will go there. How can you convince someone in south OKC to vote for neighborhood improvements for somewhere off 63rd and May if you aren't fixing up their neighborhood also?

There is time to figure these things out for sure. MAPS 4 Kids worked because it touched every single school in the city and suburbs. Could you touch every single neighborhood in OKC? I honestly have no idea. Maybe you could. In my uneducated opinion you would have to for any chance of success.

[Just the facts]

I just finished listening to the interview, and while I can appreciate what they want to accomplish, there simply isn't going to be enough money to do what they want to do. They will need billions, if not 10's of billions, and at the same time change how 1.3 million people want to live. Retrofitting urban sprawl is a significant component of New Urbanism but I am not convinced it is worth the money and effort to do it on a large scale. Creating walkable urbanism from sprawl seems like an impossible task to me.

[adaniel]

I feel like what they are proposing would be much more achievable in a bond election. The last bond program voted on in 2007 was $835 million and did touch pretty much every corner of the city. The next one could easily fund up to $1 billion in capital projects. OKC is actually due for a bond election in 2 years.

If anything I could see a 1/2 cent of the current MAPS tax going to sustain any future RTA that may be set up, with the remaining 1/2 going towards a much more scaled down MAPS 4.

[mkjeeves]

Yeah, I think there needs to be some more specific info on what they want to do. It sounds nice to talk about "connecting neighborhoods" and stuff like that, but what are we supposed to actually do?

The master plan for embracing and retrofitting neighborhoods in the manner they are talking about should have already been done a long time ago. But it wouldn't be the first MAPS that got sold on napkin sketches if it went forward on just the overall idea. My biggest issue with what they said was the 50% for neighborhoods and 50% for more large building projects. Forget that. We don't need more large building projects.

[Just the facts]

50% has to go for the"Finish the Convention Center Right" campaign, or the Chamber won't back MAPS IV.

[Just the facts]

[bchris02]

I just finished listening to the interview, and while I can appreciate what they want to accomplish, there simply isn't going to be enough money to do what they want to do. They will need billions, if not 10's of billions, and at the same time change how 1.3 million people want to live. Retrofitting urban sprawl is a significant component of New Urbanism but I am not convinced it is worth the money and effort to do it on a large scale. Creating walkable urbanism from sprawl seems like an impossible task to me.

I agree with what you are saying, but many neighborhoods in inner-OKC could be walkable with a little bit of investment. The primary focus should be the urban core and its deteriorating or non-existent infrastructure. There needs to be just enough for the suburbs to get them to support the plan but the real focus should be in the core. I would like to see the infrastructure in neighborhoods like Paseo, Classen-Ten-Penn, Crown Heights, Edgemere Park, and other inner-northside neighborhoods on the same level as Heritage Hills and Mesta Park. Having quality sidewalks, well-lit streets, and basic beautification would completely transform these neighborhoods.

[Just the facts]

Yes, but those aren't the areas they were talking about. They used schools and children walking to them as one of their examples. Unless OKCPS changes their design criteria we can't have walkable schools. They are too big, accomadate too many kids, and having parking requirements that would make Walmart proud. You can't put in a sidewalk and expect a child to walk 3 miles to a school on an arterial road.

[hoya]

Well, MAPS should be used to prepare the city for the future, for how we want it to be in 30 years. But it also has to take into account the realities of today. The best plan in the world doesn't do anything for us if it doesn't pass.

Ideally MAPS would benefit the people in OKC today, because that's who lives here right now, and also transform the city so that it is greatly improved for tomorrow.

[Just the facts]

I agree Hoyasooner and have always thought MAPS should be exclusively used for quality of life projects.

[Zuplar]

Not true at all. There are a lot of people with addresses in Mustang, Yukon and Edmond who are in city limits.

When you boil things down to a neighborhood level I can't imagine that would be an easy sell (not impossible). The Civic Center might not be in my neighborhood but I will go there. How can you convince someone in south OKC to vote for neighborhood improvements for somewhere off 63rd and May if you aren't fixing up their neighborhood also?

There is time to figure these things out for sure. MAPS 4 Kids worked because it touched every single school in the city and suburbs. Could you touch every single neighborhood in OKC? I honestly have no idea. Maybe you could. In my uneducated opinion you would have to for any chance of success.

When I saw this thread this is exactly the reason I wouldn't vote for a maps that did this.