OG&E Energy Center

[bchris02]

I'd anticipate that we won't hear anything until the convention center issue is decided. Remember that now they're considering the south parcel as a site for the convention hotel, and it's the expected choice. That really alters ClayCo's position as far as the 4 theoretical towers go. My guess is they try to resolve all of that with one big deal.

True, but I thought the north parcel was happening independent of the south parcel?

[hoya]

True, but I thought the north parcel was happening independent of the south parcel?

Yeah but I bet this still affects TIF negotiations.

[Spartan]

I won't hold your breath to see too much in the way of TIF for the Clayco project, just because they will be under pressure to get the CC project as much additional funding as possible. A deal with both Clayco and REHCO is just a creative vehicle for doing so.

[hoya]

I'd guess that they're going to try to work out one deal that wraps up all of it together. That's at least what I'd do.

Imagine something like this:

North site:
OG&E tower with a small TIF award
Residential tower with a larger TIF
ClayCo parking garage #1

South site:
ClayCo/convention center/convention hotel parking garage #2
ClayCo/Omni Convention Hotel tower mirroring the OG&E design with substantial TIF award (instead of office tower #2)
Possible Future Residential tower #2 if/when/maybe

The whole project would be taken care of in one big stroke.

[Pete]

I think this is very much a case of the powers that be wanting as much TIF money as possible for the convention hotel and parking structure and also trying to figure out how to integrate the hotel with the Clayco development to the north.

I'm still 98% sure the CC and the hotel will go on the REHCO / south Clayco sites.

[David]

How likely would it be for the hotel to go on the south Clayco site and use the OG&E tower matching design?

[hoya]

South ClayCo site -- very likely.
OG&E tower design -- just my suggestion.

[TU 'cane]

Do we have any type of timeline at all as to when we can expect some noise from this project?

It's clear everyone believes (or knows) that all parties are waiting on the CC confirmation, but when is that expected?

This thing is dragging out, and I noticed a nice little pond on the site.

[Pete]

I think they'll make a decision on the convention center within 30 days, and I'm also sure the convention hotel will be going on the south half of this block.

[soonerwilliam]

Pete, is there still hope that the OG&E Headquarters tower will be built by Clayco?

[Pete]

Yes, I think Clayco is trying to figure out how to do this with little or no TIF funds, as the City seems to be holding firm in not wanting to give them anywhere near what they have requested.

[TU 'cane]

Interesting. I wonder if they are considering condensing the scope into ONLY one or two towers, combining the HQ with residential, or residential with the hotel, etc.?

[gsan]

Interesting. I wonder if they are considering condensing the scope into ONLY one or two towers, combining the HQ with residential, or residential with the hotel, etc.?

I'm not sure if this is true or not, but spoke to a friend that works for OG&E and he said they want to build a 17 story tower and the city wants it to be as originally proposed.

I hope that we will not have to prepare ourselves for disappointment.

I was not a fan of Stage Center, but having it demolished and a empty lot sitting in the heart of the city is unacceptable.

[Laramie]

I'm not sure if this is true or not, but spoke to a friend that works for OG&E and he said they want to build a 17 story tower and the city wants it to be as originally proposed.

I hope that we will not have to prepare ourselves for disappointment.

I was not a fan of Stage Center, but having it demolished and a empty lot sitting in the heart of the city is unacceptable.

vs.

So, OG&E wants to go back to this?

[TU 'cane]

Oh, boy. So with that it would seem it would go back to the original proposal.

I think we would all much rather see a tower with the design of the current proposal. One would think they could pull off that 25 story model and combine what they were originally planning. But, then again, that's why I'm not in any of these professions.

[SouthsideSooner]

Steve had these comments in his chat yesterday...

"Steve Lackmeyer
‎11‎:‎12‎:‎35‎ ‎AM
When this project began, Rainey Williams Jr. came in with a respectable track record at BOK Plaza and other real estate ventures and OGE Energy Corp seemed like a strong enough anchor to make this project a go. But reaction to the initial development, a mid-rise building, was far from enthusiastic. So Williams then teamed up with Clayco, which proposed a far more impressive development with four towers, 25- and 26-stories each with a mix of offices, housing and retail. But with that came the tax increment financing proposal which was met with a lot of push back at City Hall. Clayco is not at the negotiating table and it doesn't appear as if much progress is being made between the city and OGE Energy Corp., which took over Clayco's role in the discussions."

"Here's my honest thought at this moment: I really wonder if the city shouldn't try to buy the Stage Center site and make it the location for the new convention center."

OKC Central Chat transcript, Aug. 7, 2015 | News OK

[BDP]

... having it demolished and a empty lot sitting in the heart of the city is unacceptable.

Hopefully, that's not happening across the street, too. Vacancies are just now starting to tick up again.

Rinse and repeat...

[TU 'cane]

Steve had these comments in his chat yesterday...

"Steve Lackmeyer
‎11‎:‎12‎:‎35‎ ‎AM
When this project began, Rainey Williams Jr. came in with a respectable track record at BOK Plaza and other real estate ventures and OGE Energy Corp seemed like a strong enough anchor to make this project a go. But reaction to the initial development, a mid-rise building, was far from enthusiastic. So Williams then teamed up with Clayco, which proposed a far more impressive development with four towers, 25- and 26-stories each with a mix of offices, housing and retail. But with that came the tax increment financing proposal which was met with a lot of push back at City Hall. Clayco is not at the negotiating table and it doesn't appear as if much progress is being made between the city and OGE Energy Corp., which took over Clayco's role in the discussions."

"Here's my honest thought at this moment: I really wonder if the city shouldn't try to buy the Stage Center site and make it the location for the new convention center."

OKC Central Chat transcript, Aug. 7, 2015 | News OK

Wow.

And here, I believe many of this thought this project was in the bag, despite TIF concerns.
Now, we have SC gone for what is cooking up to be no reason (oh, the irony of it all), and in place for months a shallow pond with fence around it.

We have two issues here:

1. Private developers relying too heavily on the presumption that TIF requests will be received regardless.
2. City code and leaders allowing demolition to commence without any type of accountability.

Yes, I realize this is essentially the conversation we have had over the last six months, but dang. Talk about hitting you right in the mouth.
This was my favorite project out of all the recent ones, finished and proposed. I would still be fine if they decided to scratch buildings 2-4 and stuck with the initial 25 story tower to house ONG, and maybe try to mix in their other plans.

I hate to sound so gloomy, but with each passing day from my perspective, this project is losing its grip.

[Laramie]

Wow.

And here, I believe many of this thought this project was in the bag, despite TIF concerns.
Now, we have SC gone for what is cooking up to be no reason (oh, the irony of it all), and in place for months a shallow pond with fence around it.

We have two issues here:

1. Private developers relying too heavily on the presumption that TIF requests will be received regardless.
2. City code and leaders allowing demolition to commence without any type of accountability.

Yes, I realize this is essentially the conversation we have had over the last six months, but dang. Talk about hitting you right in the mouth.
This was my favorite project out of all the recent ones, finished and proposed. I would still be fine if they decided to scratch buildings 2-4 and stuck with the initial 25 story tower to house ONG, and maybe try to mix in their other plans.

I hate to sound so gloomy, but with each passing day from my perspective, this project is losing its grip.

The 499 Sheridan tower project (Devon/Hines) has received much criticism for its design. Let's count our blessings.

[soonerwilliam]

Are we ready to say Rainey made a mistake choosing Clayco for this project.

[jccouger]

[bchris]This ALWAYS happens in Oklahoma City[/bchris]

Sigh.... You are right, Bchris.

[Rover]

I am not endorsing how this deal has been done. However, I think most on here are totally un-knowledgable about what it takes to get major development deals done. There are many, many moving parts. I think everybody thinks you just make up a plan and execute it. I am involved in one much simpler than this in a city in Texas. If I recounted to everyone all the different barriers and changes we have had to navigate they wouldn't believe it. Nor would they believe the costs. We have had banks back out at closing time. We have had permits delayed for months for unjustified reasons. We have discovered utilities on the site that the city swore weren't there and we didn't have others in places they were sure were there. We have had review committees make changes after plans were approved. Delays caused by others have caused some who signed leases to back out. And on, and on. We have spent a lot of wasted time and money. And this is something the client and city are committed to do, and the neighbors want it to happen. Imagine if there was dissension or opposition. I understand if Clayco is standing back and waiting for things to clear before getting too excited about doing it. People want to imagine these developers as robber barons but have no clue what they have to go through and the risk they take.

While we want grand skyscrapers of premium quality and can imagine this grand new utopia, developers have to look at it in a much more unemotional and with more pragmatic sense...or they will soon be out of business.

[Just the facts]

Peace out Rover - Yet another thread I can no longer post in.

[Rover]

That was childish the first time, let alone the 10th time. Go to the corner and hold your breath til you pass out. Believe it or not, every thread isn't about JTF. Hard to imagine.

[SOONER8693]

that was childish the first time, let alone the 10th time. Go to the corner and hold your breath til you pass out. Believe it or not, every thread isn't about jtf. Hard to imagine.

bravo!