Union Bus Station

[Pete]

From catch22;

[zookeeper]

Woulda, coulda, shoulda....but it really could have been something great. I know, the land and development speculators don't need to bother responding, it's just too bad that we never learn our lessons.

[Kemotblue]

I snapped some photos this morning with both my Iphone and Click and shoot. I saw them tearing this down. Sad day Bye Bye Union Bus Station.

[shavethewhales]

Sorry if this has been confirmed already, but are they still planning on saving the sign and hanging it in a box on the corner?

IMO, this is a worse loss than stage center because of the potential. In a few years when that block is nothing but bland corporate facade we'll still be arguing over all the possibilities that this beautiful old structure could have been used for.

Moving on isn't always a positive.

[RickOKC]

In the end, potential is not reality--it's potential. While cool things could have come of the bus station, some very wealthy people paid a lot of money for the property, have gone through the expense of making a reasonable plan of what to do with that land, and guided that plan through all the proper legal channels. I am honestly for preservation more than this post might seem, but once you start having bulldozer claws pushing through brick walls, it's time to live in the world of what is.

[zookeeper]

In the end, potential is not reality--it's potential. While cool things could have come of the bus station, some very wealthy people paid a lot of money for the property, have gone through the expense of making a reasonable plan of what to do with that land, and guided that plan through all the proper legal channels. I am honestly for preservation more than this post might seem, but once you start having bulldozer claws pushing through brick walls, it's time to live in the world of what is.

A nation of, by, and for the rich and powerful? We didn't need to see this to remind us - it's just another in the never ending reality.
I'm not ready to live in a world of "what is." I want to live in a world of "what we might be."
At 56, I may not see it...but I hope my children or their kids do.
A world where everything isn't determined by the size of your (or someone else's) bank account.

[RickOKC]

I'm with you, zookeeper! I'm just talking about where we are regarding this specific building. I want to live in the world of what might be where what might be is still possible. Where what might be is no longer possible, what could have been is a distraction from what still holds possibility.

A nation of, by, and for the rich and powerful? We didn't need to see this to remind us - it's just another in the never ending reality.
I'm not ready to live in a world of "what is." I want to live in a world of "what we might be."
At 56, I may not see it...but I hope my children or their kids do.
A world where everything isn't determined by the size of your (or someone else's) bank account.

[RickOKC]

In other words, I want to live squarely in the world of what can be, but I'm not going to waste my life in the world of what could have been.

[turnpup]

We were also wondering about the sign. It seems like they would've taken it down before starting demolition. Guess we'll find out pretty soon.

[UnFrSaKn]

"Whoops! You wanted to keep the sign too? Shucks, sorry about that."

[Rover]

A nation of, by, and for the rich and powerful? We didn't need to see this to remind us - it's just another in the never ending reality.
I'm not ready to live in a world of "what is." I want to live in a world of "what we might be."
At 56, I may not see it...but I hope my children or their kids do.
A world where everything isn't determined by the size of your (or someone else's) bank account.

When in Oklahoma less than10% of the eligible voters actually do make their voice heard at the ballot box, let alone doing the hard work before the vote is even taken, we deserve what is imposed on us by those with money, power and political oomph. It is even worse in local elections. Who does everyone think is going to make the rules when the citizens take a pass? We elect lame legislators, lame councilpersons, etc. and then complain what a lousy job they do and how things don't change. We play victim because it is easier. For the dozen on this board who actively participate in civic governance, great. For the 1.4 million others in the OKC area that don't...shame on you. Don't blame the rich...blame your neighbor. Blame yourself, if applicable.

[Just the facts]

A nation of, by, and for the rich and powerful? We didn't need to see this to remind us - it's just another in the never ending reality.
I'm not ready to live in a world of "what is." I want to live in a world of "what we might be."
At 56, I may not see it...but I hope my children or their kids do.
A world where everything isn't determined by the size of your (or someone else's) bank account.

At 45 I decided I don't want to spend what years I have left fighting a battle I can't win. I'm too old to take comfort in moral victories. If the powers that be want parking garages, 6 lane expressways, and bicycle-free streets then who am I to stand in their way, when there are so many places I can live that are already built the way I like.

In 4 years I plan to move to London. It might also be run by the rich, but at least I can walk around to things.

[SOONER8693]

At 45 I decided I don't want to spend what years fighting a battle I can't win. I'm too old to take comfort in moral victories. If the powers that be want parking garages, 6 lane expressways, and bicycle-free streets then who am I to stand in their way, when there are so many places I can live that are already built the way I like.

In 4 years I plan to move to London. It might also be run by the rich, but at least I can walk around to things.

Buh-bye. Don't think you will be missed.

[foodiefan]

When in Oklahoma less than10% of the eligible voters actually do make their voice heard at the ballot box, let alone doing the hard work before the vote is even taken, we deserve what is imposed on us by those with money, power and political oomph. It is even worse in local elections. Who does everyone think is going to make the rules when the citizens take a pass? We elect lame legislators, lame councilpersons, etc. and then complain what a lousy job they do and how things don't change. We play victim because it is easier. For the dozen on this board who actively participate in civic governance, great. For the 1.4 million others in the OKC area that don't...shame on you. Don't blame the rich...blame your neighbor. Blame yourself, if applicable.

Hear, Hear!!. . .and Amen!!

[LocoAko]

Buh-bye. Don't think you will be missed.

He and his perspective will definitely be missed. The (seemingly) Oklahoma mantra of "if you don't like it, leave" really holds us back and prevents striving for better IMO. The lack of optimism is frustrating, but don't get on his case for wanting a better city for the people level.

[Dustin]

He and his perspective will definitely be missed. The (seemingly) Oklahoma mantra of "if you don't like it, leave" really holds us back and prevents striving for better IMO. The lack of optimism is frustrating, but don't get on his case for wanting a better city for the people level.

*Like*

[PhiAlpha]

He and his perspective will definitely be missed. The (seemingly) Oklahoma mantra of "if you don't like it, leave" really holds us back and prevents striving for better IMO. The lack of optimism is frustrating, but don't get on his case for wanting a better city for the people level.

I think that mantra is generally used for people like BChris that constantly bitch about how terrible Oklahoma is, complain about living here, shout from the rooftops about how much they want to leave and how much better every other city is...and don't offer an solutions or attempt to help to change all of their complaints. I think that mantra is perfectly fine for those people as they hold us back as much as anyone. Definitely not the case for Kerry though.

Though I think the "all is lost" attitude some have taken with this development does a disservice to how far the city has progressed in becoming more urban, especially considering that this garage will contain street level retail all around it. Obviously the original buildings would've been better but if this was being built on an empty block I think most people would be reasonably ok with it. The bike lane deal is annoying though, hopefully we can find a way to keep that around.

[zookeeper]

He and his perspective will definitely be missed. The (seemingly) Oklahoma mantra of "if you don't like it, leave" really holds us back and prevents striving for better IMO. The lack of optimism is frustrating, but don't get on his case for wanting a better city for the people level.

I agree. Wish there had been a way to 'like'.

[Bellaboo]

A nation of, by, and for the rich and powerful? We didn't need to see this to remind us - it's just another in the never ending reality.
I'm not ready to live in a world of "what is." I want to live in a world of "what we might be."
At 56, I may not see it...but I hope my children or their kids do.
A world where everything isn't determined by the size of your (or someone else's) bank account.

Sorry Zoo, whether we like it or not it's been this way for thousands of years.

[Just the facts]

Buh-bye. Don't think you will be missed.

Howard Kunstler warned that when we created enough places not worth caring about we would create a country not worth caring about. The beauty of not caring anymore is..... well, not caring.

The irony is I am exactly the target demographic the City and downtown companies say they want to attract. Well guess what, this isn't how you do it. In fact, it is producing the exact opposite effect.

Yea, people will still move downtown, but those will increasingly be people with strong ties to OKC. People like me with options will just pick a better option. I could choose to live here perminately and vote in every election and fight every battle, or..... I can just vote with my feet. I opted to vote with my feet and go where my prefered lifestyle is already the norm.

Anyhow, I'm not moving tomorrow but that is the path I am now on.

[Teo9969]

There is something to be said for growing pains, but there is also something to be said for those who have the most wealth and power learning to do what's best for others because it ultimately ends up being the best thing for themselves. Enforcing your vision on the world you live in rarely has good results.

The reason this project is so hard to get over is that this lies more in the latter than the former. Same thing with just about every big-ticket project in the city. Yes, we have some great developers throwing down fantastic $10M - $50M projects. The problem is all of these $150M+ projects (C.C., OGE, 499 etc.) have massive holes and are failing to really make the contributions to the city's development that OKC needs to really become the special city we all know it can be. And these big project frustrations all tie back to a singular issue that we have no real power to correct: There is a lack of quality city planning at the very top of the ladder.

That's not to say that every $150M+ project is terrible either: on a scale of 1-10, none of these projects rate even as low as a 2 or 3…but none of them really rate much higher than a 7. We've gotta get some 9s and 10s out there if we really want to move forward as a city.

[gopokes88]

[/B]

Sorry Zoo, whether we like it or not it's been this way for thousands of years.

He who has the gold, makes the rules.

When was the last time gold was the currency? It always been like this, and there isn't an argument anyone can offer to convince me it'll change. Only seeing will be believing. That being said I don't really get down about it like others.

[catch22]

Buh-bye. Don't think you will be missed.

This attitude, which is quite common in Oklahoma, is one of the reasons why people leave.

Instead of trying to understand or learn more about someone's way of life, Oklahoma tells them to bug off and live somewhere else.

I will agree with everyone that thinks Kerry can be a little over the top and absolute in his forum postings.

However, one thing is for certain, he is consistent in his beliefs and he is not afraid to voice his opinion. I have met him in person, and I think that carries over. He is very consistent.

Someone who is consistent, wants to be involved, and will voice opinion is someone you want to keep around, not push away.

I wish more Oklahomans were open to creating a more diverse environment, and enthusiastic toward fostering idea growth and discussion. Your post is an unfortunate caricature of the stubbornness of Oklahoma which is permanently driving away and repelling many intelligent people.

[Just the facts]

That's not to say that every $150M+ project is terrible either: on a scale of 1-10, none of these projects rate even as low as a 2 or 3…but none of them really rate much higher than a 7. We've gotta get some 9s and 10s out there if we really want to move forward as a city.

The problem I have is that this project isn't a 2 or 3, it is a -3 or -4 for me. Skywalks, parking garages fronting all 4 adjacent streets (including at 2 intersections), large building setback, lackluster architecture, very little retail space, no sidewalk interaction, bike lane removal, increase traffic, etc are all negatives. You can't add a bunch of negatives together and get a positive number. I guess the difference of opinion all starts with the basic assumption about development. Some people see development as a total positive (a 10), and then subtract points for things they don't like. I am neutral on developments so I start at 0 and add points for things I like (and subtract points for things I don't like).

[LocoAko]

This attitude, which is quite common in Oklahoma, is one of the reasons why people leave.

Instead of trying to understand or learn more about someone's way of life, Oklahoma tells them to bug off and live somewhere else.

I will agree with everyone that thinks Kerry can be a little over the top and absolute in his forum postings.

However, one thing is for certain, he is consistent in his beliefs and he is not afraid to voice his opinion. I have met him in person, and I think that carries over. He is very consistent.

Someone who is consistent, wants to be involved, and will voice opinion is someone you want to keep around, not push away.

I wish more Oklahomans were open to creating a more diverse environment, and enthusiastic toward fostering idea growth and discussion. Your post is an unfortunate caricature of the stubbornness of Oklahoma which is permanently driving away and repelling many intelligent people.

Yep. Similarly, I wish I could *like* this post back.