MLB in OKC????

[Urbanized]

Funny how just a few months ago people on this board were arguing that baseball was a dead/dying sport and that the Bricktown Ballpark should be adapted instead for soccer. Now folks are geeking on the idea of OKC being in the MLB discussion...

[mugofbeer]

I vote to name the team The Fraccing Quakers!



No?

[borchard]

Funny how just a few months ago people on this board were arguing that baseball was a dead/dying sport and that the Bricktown Ballpark should be adapted instead for soccer. Now folks are geeking on the idea of OKC being in the MLB discussion...

I still think the soccer team should play at BTBP and nobody seriously thinks OKC has a chance to get a MLB team. But then again, the soccer team can't even fill up Taft Stadium, so why would we think they needed to come downtown?

[Urbanized]

Glad that I was able to unintentionally create an opportunity for you to take a shot at the Energy and its ownership group in another, unrelated thread. It must feel stifling to only have a couple of threads in which to remain relevant with your one-dimensional, single-topic posting style. You're welcome.

[borchard]

Glad that I was able to unintentionally create an opportunity for you to take a shot at the Energy and its ownership group in another, unrelated thread. It must feel stifling to only have a couple of threads in which to remain relevant with your one-dimensional, single-topic posting style. You're welcome.

I was going to thank you but you must have dislocated your arm, patting yourself on the back.

[Laramie]

Observers make the mistake by using minor league sports attendance to gauge whether or not a city is capable of support for a major league level franchise. Let's not dismiss that minor league sports can sometimes be used as a good signal that a city could be ready.

OKC's NBA success and popularity has brought about this radar focus on MLB in OKC. IIRC, both Charlotte (NBA, NFL) and Nashville (NHL, NFL) had less than 1.5 million metro population when the NFL entered those markets to compete for the sports dollar (NBA, NHL) in those areas.

Charlotte - NBA Hornets, (NFL Panthers expansion - 1995) MSA Population 2000 [1,499,293] 1990 [1,162,093]
Nashville - NHL Predators, (NFL Titans relocation - 1997) MSA Population 2000 [1,231,311] 1990 [985,026]

US Metropolitan Area Population: 1990-2000

These cities had strong corporate bases needed to support major league level sports; the current NBA & NHL franchises did feel the effect when the NFL entered those markets.

Oklahoma City will approach 1.5 million come 2020 at our current population rate increase. We have a very strong major college football presence in our area (OU Norman) that averages 85,000 fans per game (Top 15 collegiate nation wide).

Come 2020 will be the time to have that conversation about the addition of another major league sport like MLB or NFL to OKC.

The numbers indicate that you need 1 million population per major league (MLB, NFL, NBA, NHL) level sport as a support safety net.

Just wouldn't completely rule out MLB or NFL after 2020; however it would have an affect on the NBA & major college football especially on the corporate level. Tulsa is within OKC's 150 miles MLB/NFL radius. The Tulsa market is corporately comparable to OKC in many aspects.

Come 2020-2025 if OKC sports a metro of 1.5 million and Tulsa 1.2 million & a state population over 4 million; then would be the time to begin that conversation. Be prepared to spend in excess of $1 billion minimum after 2020 should you decide to build an MLB or NFL venue. A Bricktown Ballpark MLB expansion could be used as a temporary home.

The OKC-TUL (100 mile radius) market isn't ready for MLB or NFL.

[Jersey Boss]

Two things about OKC and expansion of major league franchises. One, there is a limit as to how many teams in a league are manageable. Yeah, OKC pop is getting larger, but so are the cities where there are franchises. It makes no sense for any sport to have a league that is so large you can't keep track of all the franchises or schedule that many entities. Second is TV market, which is where the money is, not fan attendance. Charlotte in 2014 was the 24th largest TV market, Nashville # 29, OKC # 45. Additionally, as Laramie posted, is the corporate support angle and lack there of in this locale.

[Snowman]

I still think the soccer team should play at BTBP and nobody seriously thinks OKC has a chance to get a MLB team. But then again, the soccer team can't even fill up Taft Stadium, so why would we think they needed to come downtown?

I do not think our attendance numbers were much better with the old Cavalry basketball team, minor league teams are not the easiest draw.

[borchard]

In 1991 (the year BEFORE the Blazers came to town) the Cavalry averaged 4,668 per game. They led the CBA in attendance. Here is a quote from Chip land:

For a first-year franchise, we had a banner year. We became the first CBA team ever with six crowds of more than 7,000.

The Cavalry also had the third, fifth, and seventh largest single-game attendances ever in the CBA at that point.
The only thing that killed the Cavalry was the Blazers.
Oh, I'm sorry. This probably doesn't fit my "one-dimensional, single-topic posting style." BTW Snowman, that wasn't directed at you :-)

[traxx]

Here's the article: Rob Manfred sees expansion in MLB's future

It's pretty cool for OKC to be mentioned, but that's some pretty stiff competition for a team. I've always thought OKC would struggle to support both MLB and NBA teams. Most studies indicate a city needs a million people for each pro franchise to be successful. OKC falls well short of that mark, and baseball might be the most demanding sport for a city to support - 30,000 for 81 games?!?

I've always thought OKC could handle a MLS team or maybe even an NFL team with only 8 home games (but that could really hurt OU and OSU). Just remember, sometimes cities names are thrown out there as threats more so than legitimate destinations for a franchise.

Why is Montreal on that list? Didn't they just lose a team not too long ago?

[Jersey Boss]

Why is Montreal on that list? Didn't they just lose a team not too long ago?

Milwaukee Braves and Seattle Pilots were both teams that left their cities and a few years later MLB returned to both locales. Montreal would be a good location as long as Olympic Stadium was not their home field.

[rte66man]

Milwaukee Braves and Seattle Pilots were both teams that left their cities and a few years later MLB returned to both locales. Montreal would be a good location as long as Olympic Stadium was not their home field.

Montreal has a very rabid fanbase for MLB and, as mentioned above, the WORST stadium situation. Not sure about corporate sponsorship.

The 2 biggest factors that will determine whether a team relocates here to OKC will be corporate sponsorship and TV market size. We might swing the former but the latter won't work unless we could convince them to include Tulsa (a LONG stretch IMO). There isn't enough room to expand the Brick to MLB standards but they might consider it as a temporary home if there were firm commitments to build a new park. Oakland has shown it only needs to be around 35K capacity with their plans for a San Jose park.

[okatty]

The numbers don't work for major league baseball in OKC | News OK

[Laramie]

MLB teams are in the large markets where you have all 4 major franchises (MLB, NFL, NBA & NHL) table by rank:

Milwaukee (1,572,245), Cleveland (2,063,598), Kansas City (2,071,133) & Cincinnati (2,149,449) are the smallest MLB markets.

MOST INFLUENCIAL (MLB, NFL, NBA, NHL)	MAJOR MARKETS -TV & Population
1. New York	8. Washington D. C.
3. Chicago	11. Detroit
4. Philadelphia	13. Phoenix
5. Dallas-Fort Worth	15. Minneapolis-St. Paul
6. San Francisco-Oakland	16. Miami
7. Boston	17. Denver

Oklahoma City is included in the four smallest NBA markets (TV households & population).
Among the 4 smallest NBA markets; we rank 2nd in TV households behind SLC/2nd in population behind Memphis.

4 Smallest NBA Markets: 2014-15 TV households/Population

TVs 34th (897,390)/Pop - 48th (1,153,340) - Salt Lake City Attendance avg - 18,830 (10th in NBA, 94.6 capacity)
TVs 44th (704,490)/Pop - 42nd (1,336,767) - Oklahoma City Attendance avg - 18,203 (15th in NBA, 100.0 capacity)
TVs 50th (653,560)/Pop - 41st (1,343,230) - Memphis Attendance avg - 17,329 (18th in NBA, 95.6 capacity)
TVs 51th (641,150)/Pop - 45th (1,251,849) - New Orleans Attendance avg - 17,192 (19th in NBA, 90.1 capacity)

Conclusion: MLB franchise? There's a better chance the city may be on the NFL's radar for the 2020-2030 decade.

Market TV households: http://www.tvb.org/media/file/Nielse..._DMA_Ranks.pdf
MSA: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o...tistical_Areas
2014-2015 NBA Attendance - National Basketball Association - ESPN

[borchard]

I agree with Tramel. There is no way OKC is getting MLB. There are just too many, other, more well-heeled, larger markets in front of us.

[MagzOK]

I heard on the news a spokesman for OKC stated that The Brick logistically couldn't be upgraded to suit MLB and that they would have to find a new location all-together. I would certainly be interested in an MLB team, however I'm not sure how it would hold up here.

[boitoirich]

Funny how just a few months ago people on this board were arguing that baseball was a dead/dying sport and that the Bricktown Ballpark should be adapted instead for soccer. Now folks are geeking on the idea of OKC being in the MLB discussion...

Urbanized I think you're referring to me. I'm the one who suggested the Brick would be a great venue for soccer (I still think it would, but now I back off my statement that it should be changed from its currents use). I made that statement hypothetically, with the condition that OKC would have an MLS team occupying the space. I don't have to tell you the benefits of the location, as you have made clear in the convention center and COOP threads its many virtues. Today, I see the popularity of MiLB in OKC and would support a two-stadium core -- provided the soccer stadium is as walkable as the Brick. As for MLB in OKC, no -- that's not something I would support (NFL or NHL either) and I'm certainly not "geeking on the idea" of having one of those franchises. Being mentioned, yes, is an honor.

Urbanized, I typically enjoy reading your insights into developments, the convention industry, and Bricktown. You often provide a fair amount of facts when others run on conjecture. Recently, however, your tone has started to show impatience and snark which detract from your often sound arguments. I hope you're not letting things posted on this site get to you too much. You've been far too valuable a contributor.

[Urbanized]

I appreciate your concern, and thanks for genuine feedback. You're right; the site can be very frustrating at times.

Regarding the thread, I don't think it was you I was referring to. The posts I was referring to were suggesting that baseball was a dead sport, to the effect of "give baseball the boot, and bring in soccer!" I enjoy soccer - grew up playing it and watching it, including Pelé/NASL and years of MISL attendance - but sincerely doubt the game will be larger than baseball in the U.S., in our lifetimes at least.

[Laramie]

Prior to landing the Dodgers' AAA farm club from Albuquerque; things looked bleak. The tarps were placed on the right side upper deck (- 2,000-seat reduction) of the Bricktown Ballpark; Houston talked of relocation of PCL-OKC to suburban Woodlands. The trend seemed as though every MLB team needed to cut back; thereby moving their AAA operations to home.

Portland, a fixture in the PCL eliminated AAA baseball in favor of MLS soccer where they transformed Providence Park into a soccer specific stadium.

MLB is a very expensive sport with its multi-level layers of minor league development. OKC's drawback would be the financial aspects; the gravy would be ticket sales, memorabilia & corporate sponsors outside of the main course on the menu--TV money. Once you're set up for MLB; the TV money will be the bulk of your revenue stream. It's tough to join that circle of markets. Charlotte (Atlanta, Tampa-St. Petersburg, Miami), Portland (Los Angeles, San Francisco, Oakland, San Diego) & San Antonio (Dallas, Houston) will be the nemesis with existing TV market concerns. Just look how Dallas Mavericks owner, Mark Cuban reacted to Oklahoma City's approval for relocation by the NBA's Board of Governors.

The NBA's TV profit-sharing model is more friendly to small market franchises than the other major leagues. IMO the NBA was a better risk for success than the NHL.

If you follow baseball, the Oakland A’s and Tampa Bay Rays both have been searching for a new ballpark for years, but to no avail. Lashbrook and Smith see that as a problem for baseball, and Portland could be a potential solution.

...there are so many roadblocks in the way that you probably have a better chance of having Disneyland come there, first. This has nothing to do with whether it’s Portland, or Charlotte, Las Vegas, San Antonio, or elsewhere, and everything to do with that aforementioned television matter.

Why Portland, And Other Markets Begging For MLB, Will Get Bloody Knees Waiting

Charlotte, NC - 2,380,314 NFL Cougars, NBA Hornets (need 3 million for adequate support).
Portland, OR - 2,348,247 NBA Trailblazers, MLS Timbers (need 3 million for adequate support).
San Antonio, TX - 2,328,652 NBA Spurs (head scratcher).
Las Vegas, NV - 2,069,681 4 Reasons Why Las Vegas Will Never Get A Professional Franchise « CBS Las Vegas

Oklahoma City, OK - 1,336,767 NBA Thunder will remain pat for now. The possibility of MAPS V (2024-31) might provide a better backdrop to add another major league franchise to our area; however, it won't be MLB.

[zookeeper]

I'll take a nice day, the American flag flying, hot dogs, peanuts, something cold to drink and --- baseball.