Oklahoma business energy news

[mkjeeves]

I know after the financial pickle my last car purchase buried me in, I will never again buy a brand new car.

Sounds strangely like the reason I swore off buying used cars. The word bath is probably more appropriate than pickle though.

[blangtang]

No it's used as an umbrella term for people who think electric cars are going to wipe out fossil fuels and reduce our demand for crude by any substantial amount. Everything is a crude product.

Oh and please, point to one, just one economy in the entire world that hasn't progressed on this path. I'll argue with facts and you can argue about how we screwed ourselves. Progressives piss and moan about the loss of American manufacturing but it's simple economics. When workers become too expensive the company moves to cheaper workers. Since American workers won't accept lower wage jobs the jobs leave. Which is fine there's plenty of other jobs available. That's why when the recession hit American manufacturing rebounded in a big way. There wasn't a better job available.

Agricultural based leads to manufacturing based which leads to service based. We aren't sure what phase 4 is yet. There's even been a Ted talk about it.

Its like people want the jobs of the 50s, the free love of the 60s, the music of the 70s-80s, the economic growth of the 90s and the technology of the 2000s, but that simply isn't going to happen.

A ridiculous claim.

[PhiAlpha]

A ridiculous claim.

Saying that "everything" is crude product is obviously a stretch, but the claim isn't that ridiculous. Many, many everyday products are made from crude oil or natural gas.

[mkjeeves]

Another perspective of the same:

In the United States 71 percent of the petroleum products consumed are used in transportation.

Only 5 percent of all oil is used to produce petrochemicals--chemicals which form the basis for the almost miraculous materials and substances that we now take for granted.

Oil is too Precious to be Used as Transportation Fuel | OilPrice.com

As a friend of mine often reflects, it's so cheap and plentiful we burn it for fuel. That will change and we'll find other options for the big issues. Either incrementally,

In 2013, 14.8 percent of the electricity generated in Oklahoma came from wind-power

or like Zookeeper says with sweeping new technology, or a combination of both.

[Just the facts]

And that 5% is used to make plastic stuff that breaks all the time. It wasn't very long ago that things were made from metal, wood, or cotton, and would last for generations.

I'll also add that those things were made locally. Historically, raw materials were shipped, not finished products.

[bradh]

And that 5% is used to make plastic stuff that breaks all the time. It wasn't very long that things were made from metal, wood, or cotton, and would last for generations.

You just need to find a time machine, I didn't think you were old enough to gripe about "the good ol days" like grandpa does. (not that I don't agree with you re: shoddy plastic construction).

[dankrutka]

Yeah, damn innovation. We bitch and moan about our students struggling in science and engineering, but when they come up with cool stuff that automates things and takes Joe Public's job, well we just need to go back to the stone ages I guess.

Player Piano by Kurt Vonnegut

[bradh]

Player Piano by Kurt Vonnegut

Interesting, always loved Vonnegut's works when I read them in HS. Didn't read this one.

[jccouger]

And that 5% is used to make plastic stuff that breaks all the time. It wasn't very long ago that things were made from metal, wood, or cotton, and would last for generations.

I'll also add that those things were made locally. Historically, raw materials were shipped, not finished products.

As you type this reply from your computer/tablet/phone

[Just the facts]

I don't get your point? Can you explain the relationship between my phone and using 71% of oil for transportation? Also, if someone made an android metal phone I would have one.

[Rover]

And that 5% is used to make plastic stuff that breaks all the time. It wasn't very long ago that things were made from metal, wood, or cotton, and would last for generations.

I'll also add that those things were made locally. Historically, raw materials were shipped, not finished products.

Ah, the good ole days. When horses were the main form of transport (even though even THEY produced gas), and we could shoot our own food, hand dig our water wells and drop the bucket down for good clean water, and we could die of simple diseases but not of car accidents, and it took a month to get to Europe, and we didn't have to worry about all the atrocities around the world because communications was so non existant we could all claim ignorance....and....and. Let's go back to the good ole days. Oh yea...before the internet and internet geniuses (myself included)

And before computers and coding....guess some people would have to find a different way to make a living.

[Laramie]

When you pay off your current vehicle, hang on to it for as long as you can; continue to set aside that amount, save that money toward your next automobile purchase.

You'd be surprised how much a 'cash purchase' you can save on your next vehicle purchase; also, the bargaining chip you can use with dealerships when flashing cash.

[OkiePoke]

When you pay off your current vehicle, hang on to it for as long as you can; continue to set aside that amount, save that money toward your next automobile purchase.

You'd be surprised how much a 'cash purchase' you can save on your next vehicle purchase; also, the bargaining chip you can use with dealerships when flashing cash.

I have heard it is a good strategy (one of many) to act like you are going to finance w/ the dealership to get a better price on the car. FOH(sales) takes a hit, but they make it back up in BOH (financing). Then, after a price is agreed, pull out the cashiers check.

[Just the facts]

The dealer doesn't care about cash from the buyer unless you are buying from a buy here pay here place. When you take out a loan the bank pays the dealer in full, you pay back the bank.

[okatty]

Actually dealers make money on their finace reserve - they sell off the paper and are paid. Deals very but essentiall just like a mortgage company which originates the loan and sells off into the secondary market. Dealership can make as much as 2% on the deal depending on lots of factors. Buy rate versus the call rate.

[Of Sound Mind]

What does any of this have to do with "Oklahoma business energy news"?

[OkiePoke]

What does any of this have to do with "Oklahoma business energy news"?

I have no idea.

[C_M_25]

Oil and gas isn't going anywhere anytime soon, but it isn't a resource that will provide energy to the people of this planet for centuries to come. Something will eventually have to step up and take its place, but the question is what? Nuclear? Not likely. While it is a safe way to create energy, the waste is extremely difficult to handle. Just look up the nuclear waste facility in the pacific northwest. That place is a disaster waiting to happen as there are several tanks below ground that are at risk of leaking because of the extreme heat associated with degrading nuclear waste.

What about coal? Most of the good "clean" coal has been mined. Most of what is left has higher sulfur concentrations which create significant amounts of pollution.

Fusion? This is probably the best energy source for the continuation of our species. It has a long way to go, however. There have been many proposals for the technology, and I believe there is a plant currently under construction. Unfortunately, there hasn't been a breakthrough to get us to a significant net positive gain of energy. I think they may have gotten more energy than put it, but it was minimal. That technology, while getting better, is a ways off still.

Renewables? These are growing in popularity, but energy storage remains a problem. This is a very region specific source too. Wind energy is great for the plains, but moving that energy to either coast is a problem. Solar is a good source, but again, energy storage is an issue. The one thing people tend to forget with these technologies is that they all require rare earth minerals which are a finite resource (hence the name). The mines for rare earth are quite nasty and large, and that is a piece to some of the renewable energy techniques that isn't discussed much. Finally, the footprint required to create significant amounts of energy from renewables is also quite large.

At the end of the day, we need to combine what is available to us to be as efficient as possible. Homes need solar panels on the roofs, power plants need to be converted to natural gas, wind turbines need to be used where possible (the great plains). Quit using asphalt on roads. More funding for fusion research, and the list goes on. Finally, we are ultimately going to have to leave our planet at some point as we will exhaust our natural resources. Either that, or our species will eventually fade away from lack of resources. SO, space exploration technological research should also not be forgotten (sorry, had to get that in there )

So, to stay on topic, our oil and gas industry likely isn't going anwhere anytime soon, but it will probably start to get smaller over the next 50 years or so.

[Urbanized]

^^^^^^^
All good points and I don't disagree, but as is typical of these discussions the one part of the solution that is completely ignored is better city planning. As the nation's (and the planet's) population becomes more city-based, we need to plan our cities in ways that reduce the number of trips (and miles) required in automobiles.

Better city planning, sprawl reduction and sprawl repair could make a massive dent on our energy requirements (and resulting carbon emissions), and the knowledge and technology to do this exists TODAY, not somewhere in the future. Yet this rarely if ever makes it into conversations or policy relative to energy consumption and conservation. It is an extreme disconnect. We keep searching for a magic bullet, but one designed to treat the symptoms rather than the disease.

[gopokes88]

^^^^^^^
All good points and I don't disagree, but as is typical of these discussions the one part of the solution that is completely ignored is better city planning. As the nation's (and the planet's) population becomes more city-based, we need to plan our cities in ways that reduce the number of trips (and miles) required in automobiles.

Better city planning, sprawl reduction and sprawl repair could make a massive dent on our energy requirements (and resulting carbon emissions), and the knowledge and technology to do this exists TODAY, not somewhere in the future. Yet this rarely if ever makes it into conversations or policy relative to energy consumption and conservation. It is an extreme disconnect. We keep searching for a magic bullet, but one designed to treat the symptoms rather than the disease.

I don't necessarily disagree but this view underestimates technological advancement.

A fully self driving car that is interlinked into the city grid. Because no one is driving the traffic is automated and reduces traffic congestion, take away the human element and traffic likely flows a lot faster. The car can see that NW expressway handles 5,000 cars per minute, checks the NW expressway traffic monitoring and reroutes to a road that is less congested and thus faster. All while the passenger rides and works in the back seat of a hydrogen car that emits water out of the tailpipe.

So while one side is going to plan to make cities less car dependent, the flip side of the coin is planning to make traffic flow like fully automated symphony.

If you don't think that's possible in the next 25-50 years. Try and think about explaining the ability of an iphone to someone 50 years ago. I have in my hand a device that is a calculator, tv, radio, record, map, phone, mail, advanced atari, and has the ability to access almost all of human history it fits comfortably in my pocket and just about everyone in America has enough money to afford one. They wouldn't believe. We have had no indication that technology won't create something in the next 50 years that people today would say impossible. (my bet is we can't imagine the power 3D printers have)

[Just the facts]

Nm

[Just the facts]

So lets say the self driving car does become mainstream. They still use gasoline. If they do alleviate traffic that will just generate more, and longer, trips - which will require even more oil and more road maintenance.

The future is energy avoidance.

[king183]

So lets say the self driving car does become mainstream. They still use gasoline. If they do alleviate traffic that will just generate more, and longer, trips - which will require even more oil and more road maintenance.

The future is energy avoidance.

I don't know why you assume a self driving car, at the point in time in which it is mainstream, still uses gasoline.

[Anonymous.]

If you have some time to kill, skip around this video and have a listen. It is pretty clear OKC's HH is the leader of this movement.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WCO5MqDZmWo

EDIT: I have no idea why it is linking to the middle of the meeting.

[C_M_25]

[QUOTE=The future is energy avoidance.[/QUOTE]

I'm sorry, but I couldn't disagree with this more. Our society is where it is because of energy. To sustain our lifestyles and to continue to advance as a civilization, we will need energy.

If we do, as you say, and avoid energy, we would have no electricity, no transportation, no farming, no mining, etc etc. There will be a complete breakdown of society and the cities would destroy themselves from the inside out. Wars will break out (so long as there is any remaining energy), and eventually, the population would stabilize and those remaining would live a nomad lifestyle. That sounds pretty horrible. Sorry, but I want to see humanity advance and become all we can be.

Now, humanity needs to become as efficient as possible. As I said, combine our energy resource in the most efficient manner, and make a concerted effort to research new technologies.

Edit - I may have mis-interpreted what you meant with your statement. If so, I would be curious to know what you meant.