Oklahoma business energy news

[bchris02]

bcrhris, I wasn't even referencing the demand part of his/her sentence. The "greenie" term is considered a pejorative when used in this fashion. GoPokes is all-in on continuing the the fossil fuels train that is soon to derail the entire planet.

Yeah, I do agree with that.

[bradh]

bcrhris, I wasn't even referencing the demand part of his/her sentence. The "greenie" term is considered a pejorative when used in this fashion. GoPokes is all-in on continuing the the fossil fuels train that is soon to derail the entire planet.

Drama queen much?

Our energy policy should be all encompassing, even if the electric car was reasonable tomorrow, what are you making the tires and plastics on the car from? Oil isn't going away no matter how much you want it to.

[jn1780]

Oil, along with the rest of the commodities is going to stay low for a long time with China crashing hard. No telling what the fallout from Greece will be either.

[OkiePoke]

Today will tell a lot about what the price for oil will do in the next 4 months. I don't think it will be going up. Hopefully it doesn't drop below $45.

[bradh]

Yeah it's not going to be good, but hey, all the more reason for zookeeper to celebrate, right?

[PhiAlpha]

Yeah it's not going to be good, but hey, all the more reason for zookeeper to celebrate, right?

Not sure why. Anyone who wants renewables to be adopted soon should be cheering for high oil and gas prices. The lower the cost of oil and gas, the more difficult it will be for people to justify switching to more expensive/less efficient alternatives like all renewable sources right now. Lower oil and gas prices will force the cost to produce renewable resources to be even lower than now to be competitive. That's the major rub with all renewables right now, even after 30 years of developement, they are still way too inefficient and expensive to be widely accepted. I think that will change over the next 20-30 years but the horizontal drilling and the shale revolution have without a doubt made it more difficult for those pushing renewables in the near term. On the positive side, the shale boom has provided a ton of natural gas to use as a cheap bridge fuel to close the gap.

[Just the facts]

Much bigger than the impact of electric cars is the high number of people who are not driving any car. Mass transit usage is at record highs and will only go up as more systems and routes come on-line and as more cities reurbanize.

People in the oil industry don't want to hear it but they are operating in a dying industry that is about 1 generation away from extinction.

[PhiAlpha]

Much bigger than the impact of electric cars is the high number of people who are not driving any car. Mass transit usage is at record highs and will only go up as more systems and routes come on-line and as more cities reurbanize.

People in the oil industry don't want to hear it but they are operating in a dying industry that is about 1 generation away from extinction.

I agree to a point, but the statement that it will be "extinct" in one generation is pretty shortsighted, or at least made with ignorance as to what is happening throughout the rest of the world. I would say that it's more like 2 generations from being reduced from its current form. You will still need fuel to power mass transit and I still don't think renewables will be responsible for a sizable portion of our energy mix for at least 30 years. As others have mentioned, generating energy is not the only use for oil and gas. It would take a complete switch from non-renewables to renewables for transportation and power generation (which again, will not happen until it is economically feasible) and a completely synthetic alternative to every other product created by oil and gas. Also, just because we use less oil and gas, doesn't mean developing nations including China and India are going to do the same.

Also, while I agree that mass transit is becoming and will continue to become more popular, I think autonomous cars will eventually make up part of that mix and will serve people that want to live in suburbs. If/when that happens on a large scale and what they are powered by...I have no idea, but I would almost guarantee that they will be part of the transportation mix.

In general I agree with a lot of your thoughts on the demographic shifts from the suburbs to urban centers but I don't think it will be nearly as dramatic or fast as you do.

[gopokes88]

bcrhris, I wasn't even referencing the demand part of his/her sentence. The "greenie" term is considered a pejorative when used in this fashion. GoPokes is all-in on continuing the the fossil fuels train that is soon to derail the entire planet.

Also, change of huge magnitudes can happen in an instant. People in 1990 would never dream of what we do on the internet now. It changed everything in just 20 years or so. To think we'll have to wait 40-50 years for something to replace fossil fuels is a dire prediction. It will be something that comes from nowhere and changes the game very quickly. Technology leaps are happening exponentially now. What used to take ten years can now be accomplished in one year. Research is being democratized with startup foundries in all the cutting edge industries.. You can't put a price on the fact that intelligent people with great ideas can today find funding to begin research. Or, the bolt from the blue could come from a Google or Apple that could put fossil fuels in the dust bin in the blink of an eye. Some may laugh, but it will happen as history has shown us time and time again that these huge changes can take place very quickly.

No it's used as an umbrella term for people who think electric cars are going to wipe out fossil fuels and reduce our demand for crude by any substantial amount. Everything is a crude product.

Oh and please, point to one, just one economy in the entire world that hasn't progressed on this path. I'll argue with facts and you can argue about how we screwed ourselves. Progressives piss and moan about the loss of American manufacturing but it's simple economics. When workers become too expensive the company moves to cheaper workers. Since American workers won't accept lower wage jobs the jobs leave. Which is fine there's plenty of other jobs available. That's why when the recession hit American manufacturing rebounded in a big way. There wasn't a better job available.

Agricultural based leads to manufacturing based which leads to service based. We aren't sure what phase 4 is yet. There's even been a Ted talk about it.

Its like people want the jobs of the 50s, the free love of the 60s, the music of the 70s-80s, the economic growth of the 90s and the technology of the 2000s, but that simply isn't going to happen.

[gopokes88]

People don't really seem to grasp that almost everything in today's society is crude based. It's not just gasoline.

[Just the facts]

Extinct might be a bit much, but demand for crude oil will be greatly reduced. Those counting on China to spur future demand will be sadly disappointed.

[zookeeper]

No it's used as an umbrella term for people who think electric cars are going to wipe out fossil fuels and reduce our demand for crude by any substantial amount. Everything is a crude product.

Oh and please, point to one, just one economy in the entire world that hasn't progressed on this path. I'll argue with facts and you can argue about how we screwed ourselves. Progressives piss and moan about the loss of American manufacturing but it's simple economics. When workers become too expensive the company moves to cheaper workers. Since American workers won't accept lower wage jobs the jobs leave. Which is fine there's plenty of other jobs available. That's why when the recession hit American manufacturing rebounded in a big way. There wasn't a better job available.

Agricultural based leads to manufacturing based which leads to service based. We aren't sure what phase 4 is yet. There's even been a Ted talk about it.

Its like people want the jobs of the 50s, the free love of the 60s, the music of the 70s-80s, the economic growth of the 90s and the technology of the 2000s, but that simply isn't going to happen.

Revisionist history.

Let's start with this one - please, tell us about all the jobs with comparable wages that have replaced the manufacturing jobs.

"Since Americans won't accept lower paid jobs." Yes, it's strange how rightwing economics insist the masses of workers accept low wages. The problem is that the masses have this problem of a need to eat, pay for housing, and believe it or not appreciate air conditioning, too.

For your age, you seem to think you have this all figured out when - in fact - you are wrong almost all of the time.

By the way, I can find a TedTalk saying just about anything.

Edit: I forgot to answer your question about the one country that hasn't followed your "advancement theory" past manufacturing.
How about we start with one of the most powerful economies in the world: Germany.

[Just the facts]

When workers become too expensive the company moves to cheaper workers.

My observation is that companies move to cheaper workers, not because of the current workers becoming too expensive, but in a constant attempt to produce temporary returns for investors.

[jn1780]

Greece looks like it will cave this week, but China is in full blown crash mode. It seems unlikely that a Greece resolution is going to magically restore confidence to Chinese investors.

[bradh]

Edit: I forgot to answer your question about the one country that hasn't followed your "advancement theory" past manufacturing.
How about we start with one of the most powerful economies in the world: Germany.

That article even states that there is lower skilled work that is outsourced from Germany. It's not like manufacturing is totally absent from the US, there is still plenty made here.

[Just the facts]

That article even states that there is lower skilled work that is outsourced from Germany. It's not like manufacturing is totally absent from the US, there is still plenty made here.

There is a lot of stuff made in the US, they just don't use a lot of people to make it - and that is a serious problem. Watch "How It's Made" and it is shocking how few humans are involved in manufacturing.

[OkiePoke]

China's market is looking pretty bad. The government is promising to buy stocks right now. 80% of the stocks in China are held by individuals. Even Hong Kong is feeling the downward pull; they are not as insulated as one might have thought.

[bradh]

There is a lot of stuff made in the US, they just don't use a lot of people to make it - and that is a serious problem. Watch "How It's Made" and it is shocking how few humans are involved in manufacturing.

Yeah, damn innovation. We bitch and moan about our students struggling in science and engineering, but when they come up with cool stuff that automates things and takes Joe Public's job, well we just need to go back to the stone ages I guess.

[Jersey Boss]

Much bigger than the impact of electric cars is the high number of people who are not driving any car. Mass transit usage is at record highs and will only go up as more systems and routes come on-line and as more cities reurbanize.

People in the oil industry don't want to hear it but they are operating in a dying industry that is about 1 generation away from extinction.

I don't know Kerry. This TIME article seems to indicate otherwise as to what the millennial generation is trending towards. Regardless it will remain to be seen if the youngsters emulate their parents in ownership versus renting.

Millennials Do Want To Own Cars
Some 71% of young adults would rather buy a car than lease one and 43% are likely to purchase a vehicle in the next five years, according to a survey from Elite Daily, a social site, and research consultants Millennial Branding

[bchris02]

I know after the financial pickle my last car purchase buried me in, I will never again buy a brand new car.

[Just the facts]

Only 43% plan to buy a car in the next 5 years? 20 years ago it was 100%. Wonder what the other 57% plan to do. Also, many in that 43% won't be able to afford a car even if they do want one. Auto loans now go out 8 years.

[Just the facts]

I know after the financial pickle my last car purchase buried me in, I will never again buy a brand new car.

I already own my last car. If I do end up buying another one it will be a novelty car (1927 Bugatti Type 35B replica) .

[Jersey Boss]

Only 43% plan to buy a car in the next 5 years? 20 years ago it was 100%. Wonder what the other 57% plan to do. Also, many in that 43% won't be able to afford a car even if they do want one. Auto loans now go out 8 years.

A significant % of the other 57% already have a car that will get them through the next 5 years? I just bought a new car after having my most recent new one for 10 years. That 10 year old one will be going to the kiddo when she hits the ivy tower this fall. I would have been in the 57% for a considerable amount of those previous ten years.

[Just the facts]

These are millennial; they aren't old enough to own a car 10 years yet, and they still haven't solved the "affordability" problem.

Anyhow, we strayed from the topic.

[PhiAlpha]

These are millennial; they aren't old enough to own a car 10 years yet, and they still haven't solved the "affordability" problem.

Anyhow, we strayed from the topic.

Sure they are, if I had kept my first car until today, I would've had it for 12 years. People born in the mid-80s are considered millennials.