BOK Park Plaza

[LordGerald]

I believe the timing of the barricades going up was just a coincidence and once that got around and then the judge said he would be going to the site as a part of the trial, the attorneys basically strongly suggested they be removed pronto.

At least the barricade crews got two solid days of work!

[Just the facts]

2 things.

1) Devon Tower itself has parking under it.
2) LN wants to put the convention center underground. I guess that isn't a cost concern since it is taxpayer money.

[Pete]

FYI, Devon doesn't have parking beneath the tower.

There is an incredibly secure loading dock that I used when I hosted an event at Vast and it was a huge ordeal to get access in and out of there.

However, their parking structure and the City Center East garage are both attached and a car bomb could still do a lot of damage from there or at the north curb.

I hate even talking about this but their attorneys are the ones that raised this point about parking below the building and it's just silly.

[Teo9969]

At least the barricade crews got two solid days of work!

THREE!!! They'll have to put the barricades up one more time.

[BDP]

2) LN wants to put the convention center underground. I guess that isn't a cost concern since it is taxpayer money.

Yeah, I think about that every time I hear about how difficult it is to go underground downtown. Now, I haven't personally done a geological survey, but it seems to me the original CC site is fairly level with the 499 site. I have a hard time believing that its water table is that much different. If they build it underground and can't keep water out of the floor space, then that'd be a much bigger problem that having a leaky parking garage,

[Anonymous.]

Yeah, I think about that every time I hear about how difficult it is to go underground downtown. Now, I haven't personally done a geological survey, but it seems to me the original CC site is fairly level with the 499 site. I have a hard time believing that its water table is that much different. If they build it underground and can't keep water out of the floor space, then that'd be a much bigger problem that having a leaky parking garage,

I see what you're saying, but let's be real. The CC will be just a level below ground, while this 499 address would be multiple levels below ground - with a large building on top of it. I think the water is more of a concern for the latter.

Either way, as many posters have pointed out, it's always been about money. It just looks better when you thinly veil with stories about terrorists and bombs and spin it in a way that you are "protecting".

[heyerdahl]

Recently completed office tower in Tulsa with internal parking garage. (325,000 sf; Floor 1: retail; Floors 2-6: parking; Floors 7-17: office). It is ugly but it takes up a fraction of the block compared to this development, but with half the land area consumed, no street level parking, and 10 fewer floors.

One Place Tower | Bourn Companies

[bchris02]

They wouldn't even have to go underground. They could build the parking deck above ground but underneath the tower. That would also satisfy those hoping for a tower that would have a bit more impact on the skyline.

[bombermwc]

Too bad that One Place tower didn't get built according to its rendering. I would agree that it's pretty ugly....and incomplete. I just wish that if you put the garage under the tower like that, that they would dress the outside wall better. I really don't understand the "slap on" thing next door.

[dankrutka]

Say what you will about Shadid, but he was the strong voice for urbanism and preservation today. I doubt there can be any major city whose leaders care less about its history than those in Oklahoma City. There are almost no historic buildings left in its CBD: https://twitter.com/shanehamp/status/613822158280626178 Utterly depressing and the same mistakes that have always been made are being made again... for a parking garage.

[bchris02]

Say what you will about Shadid, but he was the strong voice for urbanism and preservation today. I doubt there can be any major city whose leaders care less about its history than those in Oklahoma City. There are almost no historic buildings left in its CBD: https://twitter.com/shanehamp/status/613822158280626178 Utterly depressing and the same mistakes that have always been made are being made again... for a parking garage.

I completely agree. I am not sure there is a single other city where this kind of stuff is still going on in 2015. 499 Sheridan is a development straight out of the 1970s.

[Bellaboo]

I completely agree. I am not sure there is a single other city where this kind of stuff is still going on in 2015. 499 Sheridan is a development straight out of the 1970s.

Lever Tower was built in 1952.

[OkieDave]

Very interesting that Shadid testified today that he had learned that Clayco had independently arrived at the same conclusion as the architect he hired from Dallas to create an alternative proposal and offered to Devon to build residential units around a refurbished bus station in order to activate the street corner across the street from their high rise residential development. Would Clayco offer to build such a development if they didn't believe it was economically viable?

[Pete]

Very interesting that Shadid testified today that he had learned that Clayco had independently arrived at the same conclusion as the architect he hired from Dallas to create an alternative proposal and offered to Devon to build residential units around a refurbished bus station in order to activate the street corner across the street from their high rise residential development. Would Clayco offer to build such a development if they didn't believe it was economically viable?

I knew about this but didn't say anything because I couldn't independently verify.

It also goes to show how important Clayco thinks that corner is to their development. Their plan is to put a big residential tower directly across the street and I'm sure they are worried about being able to get the rental rates they need with nothing other than a monolithic parking garage to look out on.

[Just the facts]

This is 100 North Tampa (Tampa, FL). You can see the ramps for the internal parking garage.



This the SunTrust Building (Tampa, FL). That big square at the bottom has a bank, dry cleaners, post office, and restaurant on the ground floor. The second floor is the leasing office and a gym. The 3rd thru 10th floors are the parking garage.

[bchris02]

It also goes to show how important Clayco thinks that corner is to their development. Their plan is to put a big residential tower directly across the street and I'm sure they are worried about being able to get the rental rates they need with nothing other than a monolithic parking garage to look out on.

The answer to that is for Clayco to build the residential tower fronting the park, but that's for another thread.

Is residential units surrounding the bus station still a viable possibility?

[UnFrSaKn]

Hearing starts over demolition of downtown Union Bus Station | News OK

[HOT ROD]

As I was reading I kept wondering why the city attorneys keep arguing about parking underground. If Hines wants them above ground then fine, but build the tower on top of the parking. As has been shown most every major city does this and I seriously doubt it would add much cost especially compared to going underground.

I think it is time for OKC to grow up and stop accepting mediocre projects and demand urban standards for the CBD especially. This is beyond ridiculous; all of us want the tower and want Devon to be happy but why do they need to destroy another block in order to get another office building? IMO, should have built Devon tower and connected buildings taller in the first place and 499 should be built between Hotel Black and the bus station OR along Main street on top of Parking. ...

Kudos to Shadid for standing up against the OKC boys. Let's not take those two steps back when we've moved forward so much! Certainly seems like a rushed deal with the DDRC and Adjustment since they didn't even consider the impact to Clayco's development across the street.

Can there be a compromise here where the city, Devon/BOK, and freakin' common sense wins?

[jccouger]

Yeah, I don't understand why it has to be 100% Devon's way. With any other project in the core the city & district committees have recommended changes so they fit the specific urban environment. With this project there was absolutely no backlash even though there are so many obvious things wrong with it.

I hate to complain like this constantly, but I normally just stick to specific topics I complain about. (Stage Center being torn down for a pit, project 180 taking a few light years to complete). This project is so irritating, because it could be SOOOO much better & everybody could be happy.

When I see the proposed & current Devon complex it reminds me of a shield. A shield that will protect the city from good urban design going forward.

[bombermwc]

JTF - and that's the kind of garage dressing that doesn't look like crap

[BoulderSooner]

Yeah, I don't understand why it has to be 100% Devon's way. With any other project in the core the city & district committees have recommended changes so they fit the specific urban environment. With this project there was absolutely no backlash even though there are so many obvious things wrong with it.

I hate to complain like this constantly, but I normally just stick to specific topics I complain about. (Stage Center being torn down for a pit, project 180 taking a few light years to complete). This project is so irritating, because it could be SOOOO much better & everybody could be happy.

When I see the proposed & current Devon complex it reminds me of a shield. A shield that will protect the city from good urban design going forward.

This project went through review. It was altered. It is ground level retail I. The garages (I thought ground level was what mattered). This is not about any of that.

[TU 'cane]

Yeah, I don't understand why it has to be 100% Devon's way. With any other project in the core the city & district committees have recommended changes so they fit the specific urban environment. With this project there was absolutely no backlash even though there are so many obvious things wrong with it.

I hate to complain like this constantly, but I normally just stick to specific topics I complain about. (Stage Center being torn down for a pit, project 180 taking a few light years to complete). This project is so irritating, because it could be SOOOO much better & everybody could be happy.

When I see the proposed & current Devon complex it reminds me of a shield. A shield that will protect the city from good urban design going forward.

As I've stated a ways back in this thread, I believe it's simply because Nichols wants to be able to look at his little glass kingdom: Devon, Myriad (which was the focal point for Devon), and now this tower.

It's just a shame. As many posters are saying, don't put the parking underground, keep it above ground but under the tower still. This tower isn't that large, I'm sure in some form it could be done.

The one thing I will agree to was a point that someone made about out of towners visiting: they notice OKC has a plethora of parking garages.
And over the coming years, as more people are living near or in downtown, this much parking may not be necessary. Where parking is needed is debatable, but I think we'll see a point where people become fatigued by the number of them, even though stats show they are being used and at capacity... That *may* change in the near future, again, as more people begin using rail, or live near the CBD and use alternative methods.

And everyone has kept in mind that this site is getting TWO garages, right? Not just one.

[Anonymous.]

I swear, Boulder works for Devon or something. Adding 3 measly retail spots that are hardly 8500 sqft, with half of that space being an already planned restaurant is simply sad for an entire block in the CBD. It doesn't matter how you spin the approval process, this block will be crickets for years. What about that is difficult to understand? We are using prime real estate for concrete boxes that hold cars for 9 hours each day, then sit idle for 15. The fact that we are bulldozing interesting buildings from the past, only adds to the facepalm.

[jccouger]

This project went through review. It was altered. It is ground level retail I. The garages (I thought ground level was what mattered). This is not about any of that.

Puh-Lease.

Devon has spaces for "retail" in their current garage. I guess its nice if you like seeing artwork portraying their commitment to community. You don't think that is exactly what their plan is for these garages?

[BoulderSooner]

In the current building there is not retail space. Only window boxes with parking directly behind. Devon added those at the request of ddrc at that time. They never put in leaseable space