Streetcar Maintenance Facility

[boitoirich]

It absolutely would not limit the future growth of the streetcar. Expanded transit networks in several cities use multiple depots as their systems grow. Near the ends of new lines are usual locations.

[Teo9969]

Having two additional storage tracks would only address short-term growth of the system. If the streetcar is to grow into a city-wide method of transportation, the amount of space allocated will be insufficient. You also have to keep in mind, this facility will not be "park-front"... It will be directly west of Union Station. The park would be caddy-corner across the intersection to the NE.

We WILL need this facility to be this big if we don't want to limit the size and future growth of the streetcar system.

I highly suspect the street car will never become a city-wide method of transportation. The 35-year N/E/S/W borders are likely N. 63rd, Lottie Ave (Ignoring a potential line to Tinker, obviously), S 29th, and Classen Ave. (MAYBE I-44 if a line to Integris becomes feasible via increased density). I think the 35-year lines would have termini at (approximately):

1. NW 63rd/Western
2. NE 13th/Lottie
3. SW 29th/Walker
4. Somewhere to Wheeler
5. Potentially NW Expressway and May or I-44.
6. Potentially to MLK/I-44

Now, certainly coverage within that area could be increased. Awhile back maps were being thrown around to potential larger scale route frameworks within the downtown area. Maybe it was Andrew (CuatrodeMayo) who made this one (sorry if I misappropriated this), but I think it was one of the better looking ideas:



But even something like that would take a very large amount of capital to put together and it would require density levels (or the near-term potential of density levels) that are decades away to merit that level of investment.

[HOT ROD]

UP, I understand the budgets and can appreciate the separate charters (something which should change imo), but I was mainly talking about the relative size of the OMC compared to the system we are building. I know it will meet the needs of a five train starter system but I'm looking to the future and thinking we will have well north of 5 times the initial system and this OMC wont be able to support a full-fledged system and I don't see how it could be expanded (nor plans to do so).

I know you all are doing what you can with the dollars we have but I think there should at least be an expectation of yard expansion as the system grows and I didn't see that in the renderings and the proposed OMC is low-balling it IMO (with my assumption that the Streetcar will be a huge success).

[Urban Pioneer]

I understand and appreciate the concerns regarding the future outlined here. This actually a fairly generous size for a starter facility. While not depicted, if growth was that considerable, the facility could expand to take up the entire ground floor of the proposed garage.

Keep in mind who came up with the design, the folks who run Portland and AECOM who consulted on many other facilities; Portland, Seattle, Atlanta, etc

The committee felt it was important for experience by those who actually operate streetcar systems to be included.

[bombermwc]

If we expand the system out of downtown, would it not make sense (since OKC is so spread-out) to have several small facilities in a few locations rather than a large central place in a prime real estate area (downtown)? Right now, we're looking at a downtown only line, so obviously it's downtown. But something else we should think about is if we end up with express lines/etc, then it might make sense to put a garage up on the far north side (like all that empty land off Broadway Ext.)...another out west in the industrial areas, South in the "between" land of Moore/Norman, East out somewhere...not sure where.

In some other cities, it's not as practical because the city-proper is MUCH smaller than OKC. So, just throwing it out there, would it make sense to Dallas-proper to have multiple garages for DART within their city-limits or to have fewer larger garages? Since it's DART, the other municipalities have to do their part too, right (I'm asking because I don't know). Where in OKC, right now it's basically all OKC funded because the 'burbs won't be on-board until a much larger plan can be agreed upon, which would include the 'burbs shoulder their expenses/maintenance/etc. I'm just throwing something out there....

[hoya]

^^^

I agree.

[baralheia]

UP, fair enough. Thank you for the work you've put in on this!

[HOT ROD]

I understand and appreciate the concerns regarding the future outlined here. This actually a fairly generous size for a starter facility. While not depicted, if growth was that considerable, the facility could expand to take up the entire ground floor of the proposed garage.

Keep in mind who came up with the design, the folks who run Portland and AECOM who consulted on many other facilities; Portland, Seattle, Atlanta, etc

The committee felt it was important for experience by those who actually operate streetcar systems to be included.

Duly noted, thanks for that piece UP. I know you all worked so hard on this and the overall transit network to be developed and was a bit shocked by the renderings; but it is nice to hear there has been thought about this being a starter and there can be expansion if the system is a success.

I am very confident it will be a huge success but I can also understand the more conservative approach when budgets are this tight. Very nice that outside, experienced consultants were relied on as well as Portland being a benchmark system!!

Cheers!

[ljbab728]

If we expand the system out of downtown, would it not make sense (since OKC is so spread-out) to have several small facilities in a few locations rather than a large central place in a prime real estate area (downtown)? Right now, we're looking at a downtown only line, so obviously it's downtown. But something else we should think about is if we end up with express lines/etc, then it might make sense to put a garage up on the far north side (like all that empty land off Broadway Ext.)...another out west in the industrial areas, South in the "between" land of Moore/Norman, East out somewhere...not sure where.

In some other cities, it's not as practical because the city-proper is MUCH smaller than OKC. So, just throwing it out there, would it make sense to Dallas-proper to have multiple garages for DART within their city-limits or to have fewer larger garages? Since it's DART, the other municipalities have to do their part too, right (I'm asking because I don't know). Where in OKC, right now it's basically all OKC funded because the 'burbs won't be on-board until a much larger plan can be agreed upon, which would include the 'burbs shoulder their expenses/maintenance/etc. I'm just throwing something out there....

A streetcar system won't be expanded into the areas you mention. That will be for another type of mass transit which would need separate maintenance facilities.

[bombermwc]

Right....so that means there will only be a small, limited area serviced by these downtown cars. So a small facility makes sense to me. It's not like the whole fleet is going to be going in for service at the same time.

[Urban Pioneer]

The official plans for OKC Streetcar are from downtown to OUHSC, downtown to 63rd up Classen, and downtown to south 25th street (Capitol Hill) on Walker. The end of these various lines would intersect with proposed commuter rail stops to enable transfers between modes.

[baralheia]

This facility would not just be for maintenance, but also for storing the cars at night when the system is not running - so that must be taken into account as well. Additionally, there most likely will be further expansion. The site as it sits now will be perfect for the system that will initially be built. My concerns surrounded future expansion. But if the streetcar committee's experienced consultants say that this layout will work and allow for future expansion, then I am on board.

[Teo9969]

If the renderings are to scale, it looks like the track could hold 10 cars on the available tracks with expansion availability of at least 6 more (possibly 8).

I can't remember exactly how many cars we're buying for the initial system, but a ridiculously conservative estimate (32 minutes for the whole route) for 8 minute route-times means that we would only need 4 cars operating at a time, so I suppose we'd need at least 6 cars. In reality, the route takes closer to half that time.

If a route from 63rd/Classen down to Walker/25th had 12 minute route times and took 84 minutes round trip that = 7 cars.

Route to OUHSSC w/ 12 minute times taking 48 minutes round trip = 4 cars.

All of that together is 15 cars, so we need maybe 18 total. You'd likely want to store 1 at each terminus station on the N/S route for the next day's opening service, that actually works out perfectly: 16 spots at the facility, 2 spots at the termini.

[Laramie]

It absolutely would not limit the future growth of the streetcar. Expanded transit networks in several cities use multiple depots as their systems grow. Near the ends of new lines are usual locations.

Agree, that's a good point biotoirich:

You can have multiple depots used as storage as the system grows which shouldn't require your maintenance hub facility to rely on expansion.

[David]

From the council meeting notes that just went up:

MAPS 3 Modern Streetcar Storage and Maintenance Facility preliminary report approved
The Council voted Tuesday to approve the preliminary report for the MAPS 3 Modern Streetcar Storage and Maintenance Facility, which paves the way for final plans and construction. The Maintenance Facility will provide easy access for technicians to service the streetcars and provide storage space for spare parts and other equipment. The preliminary report includes plans to make it easier for possible future expansion of the Maintenance Facility.

Download the report. (PDF)
Download the presentation. (PDF)
Watch the presentation.

[Pete]

$5.4 million building permit application filed last week for this facility.

[baralheia]

I was wondering about when this would get moving just earlier today! Glad to see this will be getting underway soon. I imagine that rails will begin to be laid in the streets at around the same time?

[baralheia]

The building permit for this maintenance facility was issued on 09 September. Construction should start soon.

[baralheia]

Construction is underway:

[Pete]

^

Awesome!

Thanks so much.

[adaniel]

construction is underway:

[Teo9969]

There are so many threads that I want to post this in that I think it should become one of the board smilies.

[adaniel]

There are so many threads that I want to post this in that I think it should become one of the board smilies.

I agree!! More waving Ron Paul!!

[Pete]

From this morning:

[TU 'cane]

Holy smokes, that's coming up quick!