Downtown grocery

[traxx]

I know this has been discussed multiple times over the years on here and the answer always seemed to be that there needed to be more residences downtown before a major grocery store would move in. With more and more residential downtown and with large developments like the Steelyard and Metroplitan in the works, it seems like now would be a perfect time for someone to build a grocery store in the area in anticipation of all the growth happening. I know there are small grocers in and around DT filling the gap, but I would think DT needs a full size grocery store. Seeing what Uptown Grocery did in Edmond, I think they would be the perfect fit in DT and do a great job.

[bchris02]

Steve has said in a few of his chats that Sprouts is scouting locations in downtown OKC. Hopefully that materializes. The lack of a quality grocery store anywhere in the urban core (other than Native Roots) is one of the things keeping me in the suburbs.

[dankrutka]

Steve has said in a few of his chats that Sprouts is scouting locations in downtown OKC. Hopefully that materializes. The lack of a quality grocery store anywhere in the urban core (other than Native Roots) is one of the things keeping me in the suburbs.

I'm interested in your reasoning? Do you drive to your grocery store in the suburbs?

[sooner88]

I'm interested in your reasoning? Do you drive to your grocery store in the suburbs?

Whole Foods / Sprouts / Homeland are all 10-15 minutes from downtown. Not ideal, but depending on how often you go to the grocery store it is definitely manageable and absolutely should not be a deal breaker. There is also Native Roots, Homeland, Walmart, etc. for quick trips.

That being said, with all of the housing that has been built and that is under construction and the proximity to Heritage Hills, Plaza, Crown Heights, etc. it's only a matter of time before there is one announced.

[bchris02]

I'm interested in your reasoning? Do you drive to your grocery store in the suburbs?

I do but I don't have to drive 15+ minutes to get to them. Downtown, I would have the 18th and Classen Homeland for quick trips but I don't like the idea of patronizing that store. In the burbs I have a (nice) Homeland 5 minutes away and a Wal-Mart and Crest 10 minutes away. I will soon also have Sprouts and Uptown Market. Given the increased cost of living downtown, I don't like the idea of having less access to everyday amenities, even though it would be very nice to be right in the middle of nightlife and all the activities. No worries though. Because of all the pioneers moving downtown now, it won't be long before amenities follow leading to an even greater increase in people wanting to live downtown.

[Pete]

I know LandRun has been in active negotiations with a full-service grocery store for 4th & EKG. A drugstore as well.

And eventually, a grocery store will go in Midtown, so in many ways we are all well on our way. Already have a very nice and cool specialty store in Native Roots and certainly a full-service option within the next 2-3 years.

Also, Winco at 39th & Portland and Sam's at 39th & May are only a few miles from the center of the urban core and both are very accessible in general, but particularly for the more northern historic neighborhoods like Crown Heights, Gatewood, The Paseo, etc.

Even now, you have Native Roots, the Homeland and then Walmart Neighborhood Market and Buy 4 Less plus the drug stores on 23rd, and those are at most 2 miles from any of those inner neighborhoods.

Almost everyone in OKC is already driving 2-4 miles to the grocery store and many drive further than that.

[Mr. Cotter]

Eley's (NW 30th and May) usually gets left out of this discussion. I can walk to it from my house, they have a very good basic selection, the store is always clean, and the staff is always friendly. It's not new or cool, but it's a great neighborhood amenity.

[lasomeday]

I know LandRun has been in active negotiations with a full-service grocery store for 4th & EKG. A drugstore as well.

And eventually, a grocery store will go in Midtown, so in many ways we are all well on our way. Already have a very nice and cool specialty store in Native Roots and certainly a full-service option within the next 2-3 years.

Also, Winco at 39th & Portland and Sam's at 39th & May are only a few miles from the center of the urban core and both are very accessible in general, but particularly for the more northern historic neighborhoods like Crown Heights, Gatewood, The Paseo, etc.

Even now, you have Native Roots, the Homeland and then Walmart Neighborhood Market and Buy 4 Less plus the drug stores on 23rd, and those are at most 2 miles from any of those inner neighborhoods.

Almost everyone in OKC is already driving 2-4 miles to the grocery store and many drive further than that.

What is the status of the Winco on 39th and Portland? There hasn't been any construction there yet. Sam's is moving along quickly.

[Pete]

I think WinCo is waiting to get the sale done at Memorial & Penn and then will start work on all 4 area stores about the same time.

[PhiAlpha]

I do but I don't have to drive 15+ minutes to get to them. Downtown, I would have the 18th and Classen Homeland for quick trips but I don't like the idea of patronizing that store. In the burbs I have a (nice) Homeland 5 minutes away and a Wal-Mart and Crest 10 minutes away. I will soon also have Sprouts and Uptown Market. Given the increased cost of living downtown, I don't like the idea of having less access to everyday amenities, even though it would be very nice to be right in the middle of nightlife and all the activities. No worries though. Because of all the pioneers moving downtown now, it won't be long before amenities follow leading to an even greater increase in people wanting to live downtown.

I definitely don't understand the logic of choosing the suburbs over downtown due to grocery store proximity. I lived in both Edmond and Norman for a combined 23 years (and I wasn't on the outskirts of either city) and have never lived closer to multiple grocery stores than I do now. In the suburbs I always had to drive to the grocery store...just like I do now.

Despite the hate everyone spews for the Classen and 18th Homeland (a sentiment I share for the most part), it isn't THAT bad and definitely is fine for quick trips. Again, it isn't the nicest store in the world by any means and I generally don't use it for big grocery trips, but it's nice to have something close and beats driving farther when I just need a gallon of milk. The Walmart Neighborhood Market (which is open 24 hours) and Buy For Less are both fairly nice and are all of 3-5 minutes farther from Homeland. Native Roots works as a quick option for Deep Deuce/Bricktown and If you want a nicer grocery store and live anywhere downtown, you are only 6 miles or 10 minutes from Whole Foods.

So in Deep Deuce and Bricktown, you are less than 5 minutes from Native Roots and 10 minutes from Whole Foods, Walmart Neighborhood, Buy For Less, and Homeland.
On the west side of downtown, midtown, and most of the near downtown urban neighborhoods, you are 5 minutes from Homeland, 8 from Walmart Neighborhood and Buy For Less, and 10 from Whole Foods.

While the grocery store situation downtown certainly isn't ideal, it is not that much different than living in the suburbs and the other benefits outweigh that negative.

[betts]

I agree with you PhiAlpha. I usually shop at Native Roots for food I'm going to prepare that day. We make a monthly or twice monthly trip to the Homeland at Classen to buy paper goods. And anytime I'm up in the Whole Foods area anyway, I stop in and shop. Or, if it's a holiday and we have family coming in I shop there for food my kids will enjoy. So, while it would be nice to have a downtown grocery store for the people that want one, it's not anything I'm dying for...and its' lack did not keep me from moving downtown.

[turnpup]

Eley's (NW 30th and May) usually gets left out of this discussion. I can walk to it from my house, they have a very good basic selection, the store is always clean, and the staff is always friendly. It's not new or cool, but it's a great neighborhood amenity.

Yes. Eley's is our quick-stop for things we need on the way home when we don't want to have to go to a bigger place. I've heard their meat is good, but haven't tried it.

[Kemotblue]

I think WinCo is waiting to get the sale done at Memorial & Penn and then will start work on all 4 area stores about the same time.

I drove down 39th the other day and I saw Construction started on that WinCo There is a shopping center on that corner and the East part of that shopping center was leveled. Good for that area a new Winco and further down the road on May the Sams club both under construction. Pretty exciting for those residents in that area.

[Pete]

I drove down 39th the other day and I saw Construction started on that WinCo There is a shopping center on that corner and the East part of that shopping center was leveled. Good for that area a new Winco and further down the road on May the Sams club both under construction. Pretty exciting for those residents in that area.

That's just road construction equipment.

There hasn't been a building permit issued yet for that WinCo or any of the other locations yet.

[Urbanized]

Great post, PhiAlpha. I've said the same things regarding the downtown grocery discussion for years, yet the "15 minute drive" narrative - an utter fabrication - lives on. Most people in the 'burbs drive 2, 3, 5 miles and more to go to the grocery store. Pretty much everyone who lives downtown is within a couple of miles serviceable grocery option, and just a couple miles more to excellent options.

From LEVEL, Homeland is a little over 2 miles, Buy 4 Less and Walmart Neighborhood Market a little over 4 miles. From the same place, Whole Foods is a little bit over 6. Want to live more than a mile closer to each? Try The Edge or a dozen other places. "Fifteen minutes" is a complete fabrication and a scapegoat for not living downtown and yet it will continue to be posted here.

Would it be nice to walk out your door and a block down to a Manhattan-style bodega? Of course. And that may happen someday, but even then it will be that way for only for a few people; the ones who live a block from the bodega. Most of the rest will still probably drive, and even if the downtown grocery never appears they will be driving no further than probably 3/4 of people who live in the suburbs. Meanwhile people from north Edmond will be driving 25 minutes to shop at a Whole Foods that's less than 10 minutes from downtown.

Life is what you make of it. If you keep putting up imaginary barriers to the life that you WANT to live, you're guaranteed to never live it.

[bchris02]

Great post, PhiAlpha. I've said the same things regarding the downtown grocery discussion for years, yet the "15 minute drive" narrative - an utter fabrication - lives on. Most people in the 'burbs drive 2, 3, 5 miles and more to go to the grocery store. Pretty much everyone who lives downtown is within a couple of miles serviceable grocery option, and just a couple miles more to excellent options.

From LEVEL, Homeland is a little over 2 miles, Buy 4 Less and Walmart Neighborhood Market a little over 4 miles. From the same place, Whole Foods is a little bit over 6. Want to live more than a mile closer to each? Try The Edge or a dozen other places. "Fifteen minutes" is a complete fabrication and a scapegoat for not living downtown and yet it will continue to be posted here.

Would it be nice to walk out your door and a block down to a Manhattan-style bodega? Of course. And that may happen someday, but even then it will be that way for only for a few people; the ones who live a block from the bodega. Most of the rest will still probably drive, and even if the downtown grocery never appears they will be driving no further than probably 3/4 of people who live in the suburbs. Meanwhile people from north Edmond will be driving 25 minutes to shop at a Whole Foods that's less than 10 minutes from downtown.

Good points, but I would disagree that most people in the burbs drive 5 miles to the grocery store. Maybe for those who insist on shopping at a Super Wal-Mart but if you do it, you do it by choice and not because you have to. There are a few places in the metro that are food deserts, like SE OKC over around I-240 and Sooner, but in a vast majority of the metro no matter where you are you are at least 2-3 miles from a grocery store. On a map, for downtown its not that much further to just drive to 23rd and Penn and go to the Wal-Mart or the Buy for Less. However, given the increased cost of living downtown, amenities should be more conveniently available, not less. OKC will get there and is making progress each year, but isn't there yet. I don't think anybody is asking or expecting NYC-style bodegas that people can walk to. Downtown currently has nowhere near the population or density to support that. I don't think its that unreasonable though to expect a full service grocery store somewhere in the immediate downtown area. Good thing is, its a matter of when, not if.

[PhiAlpha]

Good points, but I would disagree that most people in the burbs drive 5 miles to the grocery store. Maybe for those who insist on shopping at a Super Wal-Mart but if you do it, you do it by choice and not because you have to. There are a few places in the metro that are food deserts, like SE OKC over around I-240 and Sooner, but in a vast majority of the metro no matter where you are you are at least 2-3 miles from a grocery store. On a map, for downtown its not that much further to just drive to 23rd and Penn and go to the Wal-Mart or the Buy for Less. However, given the increased cost of living downtown, amenities should be more conveniently available, not less. OKC will get there and is making progress each year, but isn't there yet. I don't think anybody is asking or expecting NYC-style bodegas that people can walk to. Downtown currently has nowhere near the population or density to support that. I don't think its that unreasonable though to expect a full service grocery store somewhere in the immediate downtown area. Good thing is, its a matter of when, not if.

He said most people in the suburbs drive 2-5 miles, not 5, to a grocery store and he is absolutely right. There is not a grocery store on every street corner in any of OKC's suburbs. No one is arguing that amenities shouldn't be more readily available,, we are just saying that there are plenty of options currently in place, that getting groceries downtown is not at all difficult, is not any harder than getting groceries in the suburbs, and that the supposed lack of grocery options is not a real reason to choose to live in the suburbs over downtown.

[foodiefan]

He said most people in the suburbs drive 2-5 miles, not 5, to a grocery store and he is absolutely right. There is not a grocery store on every street corner in any of OKC's suburbs. No one is arguing that amenities shouldn't be more readily available,, we are just saying that there are plenty of options currently in place, that getting groceries downtown is not at all difficult, is not any harder than getting groceries in the suburbs, and that the supposed lack of grocery options is not a real reason to choose to live in the suburbs over downtown.

Concur. . . . . . I don't know of very many people (although I'm sure there are some who are limited by transportation issues) that shop at only one grocery store. . . no matter how close it is. I'm lucky to live in any area that offers quick convenience to a good size area of "inner suburban" OKC. My regular "rotation" is Sprouts, Buy 4 Less (NW EXpwy), and Crest (NW 23rd) for staples/convenience. WF is in the mix at least 2-3 times a month. But I also hit B4L at 36th/MacArthur and NW 23rd/Penn for ethnic specialties. . .and, of course, Med Deli. Bottom line. . . you probably are not going to be a "one-stop shopper" no matter where you are.

[HOT ROD]

btw, Native Roots is gone.

[PhiAlpha]

btw, Native Roots is gone.

You're thinking of Urban Roots, the restaurant down the street across from deep deuce grill. Native roots is still open.

[Dubya61]

... There are a few places in the metro that are food deserts, like SE OKC over around I-240 and Sooner, ...

Still not true, unless you contend that every house needs a grocery store within 2 - 5 miles.
And why? when most of us commute greater distances? Shopping on the way home from work or in conjunction with other errands is a no-brainer.

[HOT ROD]

ah, got cha. ..... thanks

[hoya]

I live less than a mile from a supermarket, in the suburbs. It is very convenient.

[jerrywall]

I think one of the disconnects in suburb vs downtown grocery proximity is that for many people, when you think of downtown living, one of the benefits would be carless (or reduced) living and car dependency. So something 2-5 miles away is a bigger deal. Improved public transportation will help there, as does the ability to order groceries for delivery (there are at least 2 services right now, maybe more). It's 100% doable, just like it's 100% possible to live car free in OKC. But it's not as easy as it is in other cities.

[bchris02]

I think one of the disconnects in suburb vs downtown grocery proximity is that for many people, when you think of downtown living, one of the benefits would be carless (or reduced) living and car dependency. So something 2-5 miles away is a bigger deal. Improved public transportation will help there, as does the ability to order groceries for delivery (there are at least 2 services right now, maybe more). It's 100% doable, just like it's 100% possible to live car free in OKC. But it's not as easy as it is in other cities.

Exactly this.

The idea that driving 2-5 miles to a grocery store is acceptable is a very suburban way of thinking. The cost of living downtown is a good deal higher than the burbs and part of what you are paying for is the convenience of living in a more compact environment in closer proximity to amenities. OKC still has a ways to go in my opinion. However, because of the pioneers moving downtown today, I will be very surprised if this is still an issue in 5 years or so.