Great Plains International Airport

[venture]

To tag on, if you want to get a better idea of air fares...just go to google and type "OKC to ___ Flights" and click on the top sponsored link. The next page it'll give you the fares by airline, click the calendar icons by the dates and it'll give you the lowest fare per day (excluding Southwest and other airlines that restrict fare access). You'll get a pretty good idea of how fares work out. $300 round trip seems to be the floor for OKC-CLT.

https://www.google.com/flights/#sear...0;r=2015-05-24

I need to work on getting market data posted again. I'm going to try to get a site put together to make it easier to look at all the market specifics.

To the topic at hand...a new airport in the middle of no where will fail. Pax want to have access to population centers, not corn fields. There is a reason why you see Southwest push to expand Love Field, Midway, and entertain serving Boeing Field/King County Int'l. New airports also come with high costs placed on the airlines - something they will fight.

Also the notion of eliminating service from OKC for high speed to DFW is foolish. Airline service is key to the health of the local economy.

[Snowman]

DFW as a joint airport for the region was mainly being pushed for by the FAA, not the local communities. The FAA was threatening no further investment in separate facilities for either city's existing airports and if a location could not be decided on by the two cities, one would be chosen for them.

This has even less reason to exist for any of the communities as of today, if near the intersection of i35 & the Cimarron Turnpike would be a terrible location for all the cities and a tough location for staffing, travel time is near an hour and a half for all the cities by car. Even getting a Heartland flyer extension to Wichita failed, the proposed rail (kinda) between OKC and Tulsa so far does not even sound like it will be receiving much state or city funds, so HSR is not happening any time soon. Ignoring all that a big point of HSR is getting between cities, not finding new reasons to add delays between them.

[no1cub17]

As an alternative, I would also be completely happy closing WRWA and just building HSR directly to DFW.

Nooo.... those extra 500 mile segments add up quickly when trying to requalify for status!

Yep, but at crappy times and crazy expensive.

Also, I am thinking the airline would actually like this idea; they could reduce staff, gate costs, and aircraft. Instead of 3 gates at ATL they could just have 1.

All 6 times a day are crappy? Which exact time of departure do you want? Let DL know - if you're willing to pay a high enough fare, I'm sure they'll add a flight! And as catch pointed out, that will have absolutely no effect on their gates at ATL.

I don't think a new airport would be successful. As others have stated, it would simply decrease service at all three airports and would only really benefit a few people who live in between the three cities. Businesses aren't going to want to shuttle their people 70+ miles from the airport to their destination city.

There is nothing wrong with OKC's airport other than how much it costs to fly. A direct flight from OKC to Charlotte would cost me $427. I could drive to Dallas and it would only cost me $243. The difference in cost is absolutely ridiculous. For comparison the same flight is $294 out of Wichita, $319 from Memphis, and $344 from XNA. I don't understand why it is so expensive to fly out of OKC.

Let me play devil's advocate here - but $427 last second out of OKC isn't half bad at all. It's hard to get advance fares that low out of OKC. And when you add up the cost, time, and hassle of driving to DFW - no thanks.

I think Sid started a similar topic in the last - and I think most of us agree this type of arrangement is a non-starter for billions of reasons ($$$) - but also because OKC/TUL/LAW/ICT would then have to be artificially shuttered a la DAL (which was never shuttered but that was certainly the goal IIRC) - and that absolutely would not fly with the leaders of any of the aforementioned cities. A Great Plains Int'l airport would be absurdly expensive to build and would likely resemble something like: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...rack-ruin.html - OR this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MidAmer..._Louis_Airport

And lastly, it's extremely unlikely that "GPI" would attract routes such as LHR, CDG, NRT, etc - which would be the only justification I could see. Even if you combined the business markets of OKC/TUL/ICT, we're just too close to DFW. And if the new airport had 737s to ORD instead of CRJs, really what's the difference? Minimal benefit for maximal cost IMO.

[hoya]

The cost to build a new airport would not be worth any benefit we'd get out of it. We'd be much better off using the money to make OKC into a better city. That would bring many more flights.

[Rover]

This is another "on paper" good idea. Reminds me of a client I had in NYC years ago who wanted to put a ski resort in an area that had "average" temperatures below 32 for Jan and Feb. Against advice, they spent a lot of money putting in one, and created a HUGE mud slope by creating snow at night. 40 at day and 20 at night averages below freezing. That darn sun and 40 degree temps got in the way. This is what these kind of theoretical and non pragmatic ideas remind me of. Totally impractical and doomed to failure. Sometimes a little reality needs to be applied when people get too caught up in their own mental gymnastics.

This seems like something soviet Russia would attempt...make the people serve the system instead of the people getting served.

[OUman]

To further add some perspective, back when Austin had the need for a new airport, the idea of a joint San Antonio-Austin airport had been going around. Very few people from both cities supported the idea. People want to have an airport close to their city, they don't want to go far and away just to get to their plane.

[bchris02]

This seems like something soviet Russia would attempt...make the people serve the system instead of the people getting served.

Kind of like having the Winter Olympics in a sub-tropical climate...

[bchris02]

To further add some perspective, back when Austin had the need for a new airport, the idea of a joint San Antonio-Austin airport had been going around. Very few people from both cities supported the idea. People want to have an airport close to their city, they don't want to go far and away just to get to their plane.

I agree with this. The airport is primarily used by the business community and you probably couldn't get the business communities in any of the three cities on board with a joint airport, especially for cities that are as far apart from each other as OKC, Tulsa, and Wichita.

[Just the facts]

So if WRWA was to double the number of passengers is the consesus then that OKC would not get more frequent service, nor more direct cities, nor lower fares, but only larger aircraft?

If that is the case then tell me again why people shouldn't drive to DFW.

Also, I am pary of the OKC business community and am not a recreational travler, so the ' business community won't support it' comment isn't true.

[Urbanized]

Hey JTF, I don't think your idea is gaining much traction here.

[catch22]

So if WRWA was to double the number of passengers is the consesus then that OKC would not get more frequent service, nor more direct cities, nor lower fares, but only larger aircraft?

If that is the case then tell me again why people shouldn't drive to DFW.

Also, I am pary of the OKC business community and am not a recreational travler, so the ' business community won't support it' comment isn't true.

Go ask Devon and GE if they want to send their employees 50 miles up the turnpike so they can fly to Houston. You may be a part of the business community, but you are certainly not a representative of the OKC business community as a whole.

[bchris02]

So if WRWA was to double the number of passengers is the consesus then that OKC would not get more frequent service, nor more direct cities, nor lower fares, but only larger aircraft?

If that is the case then tell me again why people shouldn't drive to DFW.

Also, I am pary of the OKC business community and am not a recreational travler, so the ' business community won't support it' comment isn't true.

Do that many local businesses send their employees to DFW? I would imagine people who drive to DFW are mostly recreational travelers.

If WRWA doubled the number of passengers then yes, I think the airport would get more competitive service. However, a new airport between Perry and Ponca city would decrease traffic and service at all airports. Unless a major airline was able to commit to making it a primary hub, it wouldn't achieve the desired results.

[catch22]

People shouldn't drive to DFW for the very reason you argue why people shouldn't shop at Walmart. Buy local! When you fly out of OKC, the local community benefits. If more people flew out of OKC, my company might have had more flights a day and I'd be keeping my job. Who knows!

Driving to DFW does nothing but hurt OKC.

[Just the facts]

Maybe you guys didn't read the whole thing. You would check-in here in OKC. Almost no one would drive to the airport. A person traveling to/from Devon would walk a total of 3 blocks.

[catch22]

Maybe you guys didn't read the whole thing. You would check-in here in OKC. Almost no one would drive to the airport. A person traveling to/from Devon would walk a total of 3 blocks.

Does any businessman want to take a 30 min train ride to catch a flight? (Besides you)

[Just the facts]

Does any businessman want to take a 30 min train ride to catch a flight? (Besides you)

People do it all over the world. Gatwick Express is about 40 minutes. MARTA from downtown Atlanta is 30 minutes, and it is packed. From north Atlanta it is an hour. This would be 30 minutes and not even have to carry your luggage or go through security when you get there.

[adaniel]

Cities are not building airports anymore, and for good reason.

Its heralded a such a success story, but heaven and earth had to be moved back in the late 1960's for DFW to be built. Both Dallas and Ft Worth had to be forced to give up their own airports by federal threat. And this was for cities that were 30 miles apart and when jet travel was still in growth mode.

Most on here wouldn't believe this, but given the market size and limitations here (no big tourism draw, in the middle of the country, only 3 hours away from huge hub), OKC has very good air service. You can fly nonstop to 14 of the US largest CSA's. You definitely pay for the privilege though. If people want to drive to Dallas even though 90% of their savings will be burned in gas, possible lodging, and parking, then so be it. Just don't complain when airlines start pulling the plug on what nonstop service we do have.

Right now I certainly am appreciating Will Rogers. I am trying to book a flight from Dallas to a friends wedding in Virginia Beach and the flight options out there range from terrible to abysmal. This is for a market that is slightly larger than OKC but has a much larger tourism base and is a huge military center.

[Just the facts]

Also, just to be clear WRWA, Tulsa, and Wichita would close for commercial traffic.

[catch22]

We really do have good air service for a city our size. Use it or lose it.

[Urbanized]

People do it all over the world. Gatwick Express is about 40 minutes.

I've taken that. If I had it to do over again would have flown into Heathrow.

[catch22]

Also, just to be clear WRWA, Tulsa, and Wichita would close for commercial traffic.

Won't happen. The cities won't voluntarily do it, and the FAA has no interest in closing them.

[Just the facts]

Cities are not building airports any more.

No, but nearly every airport in the US has expansion underway and new airports are being built around the world constantly.

[Just the facts]

Well clearly there doesn't seem to be any interest.

[Just the facts]

Won't happen. The cities won't voluntarily do it, and the FAA has no interest in closing them.

You're right, they would have to be convinced.

[Just the facts]

I've taken that. If I had it to do over again would have flown into Heathrow.

Still a 30 minute ride on the Heathrow Express.