BOK Park Plaza

[gopokes88]

They may be getting ready, but they can't demolish anything until the lawsuit issue is settled.

Don't be surprised if they go ahead and demolish it anyway, counter sue saying they had the right to demo it. Tie it up in lawsuits that even if you lose you'll still win because the structure is gone.

[jn1780]

[hr][/hr]

Don't be surprised if they go ahead and demolish it anyway, counter sue saying they had the right to demo it. Tie it up in lawsuits that even if you lose you'll still win because the structure is gone.

An actual demolition permit hasn't been approved yet.

[Bellaboo]

They may be getting ready, but they can't demolish anything until the lawsuit issue is settled.

Does the lawsuit include the other buildings also ? Or is it just the bus station ? If it's just the bus station, then nothing's stopping them on the remainder of the site.

[Laramie]

Is this about Councilman Ed Shadid's legal action that holding up demolition of the bus station?

[baralheia]

Does the lawsuit include the other buildings also ? Or is it just the bus station ? If it's just the bus station, then nothing's stopping them on the remainder of the site.

I believe it only includes Union Bus Station.

[Pete]

Yes, only the bus station.

I was by there today and nothing happening at all.

I doubt they will demolish anything on that block until the suit is settled.

[rte66man]

It looks like we are about to have the pleasurable experience of the Precision Difference..

The Precision Difference

Time to get some chains and tie myself to a bulldozer.

[Stickman]

Time to get some chains and tie myself to a bulldozer.

At least wait till after the Arts Festival

[David]

Or start during the festival, with fancy decorative chains.

[rlewis]

I was downtown about a week and a half ago and I saw a pickup truck from Midwest Wrecking parked in front of Carpenter Square. There was a guy with a clipboard walking around as well. I would bet that they are soliciting bids from the demolition companies right now.

[soonerwilliam]

Project needs to get started ASAP!!!!

[Spartan]

By the way, I would just like to point out that Columbus just made a developer do what OKC should have done here. This new project in the Short North (the White Castle-funded and anchored mixed-use loft high-rise) was required to not only retain a historic bldg, but setback the new tower behind the historic facade, and stagger the floor heights to minimize the impact. This project was also naturally subject to a height limit in the historic Short North, which wouldn't be the case in downtown OKC.



Normal cities can make this happen. Boise has a tower setback over a historic building. New York and Europe have truckloads of them. Columbus has a few. OKC can save the Auto Hotel, Greyhound Station, Carpenter Square, and Black Hotel.

[Urbanized]

Most preservationists would tell you that facadism is a cop out. A building is either worth preserving and activating or it is not.

[Just the facts]

This is why I am good urbanism preservationist. I don't care if the building is new or old, I just want it to enhance the public realm in which it sits. 499 would be fine with me if it interacted with the street (retail/dining), hid the parking garages from public view, removed the skywalks, had something other than a glass curtain wall, and dumped the large setback. I do think it is an enormous waste of space for the entire block to just be one office tower though. Seems like the they could get more tax revenue generating uses on an entire city block bounded by 4 streets.

[SouthsideSooner]

By the way, I would just like to point out that Columbus just made a developer do what OKC should have done here. This new project in the Short North (the White Castle-funded and anchored mixed-use loft high-rise) was required to not only retain a historic bldg, but setback the new tower behind the historic facade, and stagger the floor heights to minimize the impact. This project was also naturally subject to a height limit in the historic Short North, which wouldn't be the case in downtown OKC.



Normal cities can make this happen. Boise has a tower setback over a historic building. New York and Europe have truckloads of them. Columbus has a few. OKC can save the Auto Hotel, Greyhound Station, Carpenter Square, and Black Hotel.

Do you just make this stuff up as you go along? That entire building is new construction. The only building on the property is a White Castle restaurant that will be torn down...

"White Castle and Borror Properties will present plans to the Victorian Village Commission on Thursday for a property at the northwest corner of N. High Street and W. 2nd Avenue. A White Castle restaurant and a 40-space, city-owned parking lot currently occupy the site."

Here's a link to a story on the original proposal...

White Castle project among Short North developments planned | The Columbus Dispatch

This link shows the revised proposal with the rendering you posted...

White Castle project in Short North still too big for commissioners - Columbus - Columbus Business First

Don't let the truth get in the way of you trying to make a point though... Too funny...

[Spartan]

The current White Castle (a zero-setback Lustron w a bikeshare station in front) and adjoining parking take up the part of the site up to the balconies. I also underestimated the enormity of his project until I visited the site and saw how it engulfed adjoining buildings on that block. There are legitimate reasons that residents in the Victorian homes behind this are concerned about height, and White Castle and Borror are just trying to get as much height as possible.

I think that last line of your post has appeared at the end of your last 24 responses directed at me.

[SouthsideSooner]

The current White Castle (a zero-setback Lustron w a bikeshare station in front) and adjoining parking take up the part of the site up to the balconies. I also underestimated the enormity of his project until I visited the site and saw how it engulfed adjoining buildings on that block. There are legitimate reasons that residents in the Victorian homes behind this are concerned about height, and White Castle and Borror are just trying to get as much height as possible.

I think that last line of your post has appeared at the end of your last 24 responses directed at me.

Really? Show me just one other time I've done it. I rarely respond to anything you post.

I really liked the picture of the building and decided to look a little further into it when I discovered that your entire post was pure BS. There is no historic building or façade involved in this project at all. It's new construction to be built on the one acre lot that the White Castle (which will be torn down) and it's parking lot are sitting on and a 40 space surface parking lot owned by the city...

I have no idea why you felt the need to fabricate the narrative in your post.

[Spartan]

I don't understand what you think was "fabricated" because I'm pretty sure you're wrong, lol.

[David]

I don't think he is. I was curious last night so I found the site on street view, and the only buildings there are the White Castle that would be torn down and the two existing three story buildings down on the end of the rendering above that aren't a part of the project.

[borchard]

The picture looks hideous, to me. it looks like a Frankenstein's Monster mishmash of about 5 different styles. Build it, or don't. Tear it down, or don't. Sheesh!... And sometimes it seems the only thing some people are good at is bitching. It reminds of the uproar over the Edge development on 13th and Walker. I had heard that there were several blue hairs and lizard skins in Heritage Hills who had tried to block the project. I guess they enjoyed the vacant lot, with concrete jutting out that was there before. Or maybe they were yearning to go back to the days of having a vacant, rotting hospital there that was frequently used as a drug den.

[Spartan]

Not sure the point you're trying to make. It would have been nice to save and redevelop the old Mercy Hospital. Wiggin had proposed a bigger and even more monolithic development that was rejected...

I don't think he is. I was curious last night so I found the site on street view, and the only buildings there are the White Castle that would be torn down and the two existing three story buildings down on the end of the rendering above that aren't a part of the project.

Got it, then I am wrong. This is not a life or death matter to me. I guess I'm too busy working on the 60 developments in our pipeline at work to worry about some other developer's problems, and I humbly apologize for the fabrication above, lol. I just have a vague recollection of the site from walking past, but I'll be more familiar once I move out of downtown. I don't mean to sound like a punk but its patently absurd to read some impassioned preach about me fabricating things. I have 11,xxx posts on this sounding board...give me a break.

It says something that they are driven to manufacture a historical connection to the surrounding historic district. It sounds as though all of these development concessions still aren't winning over the neighbors, which is news to me because everyone I know is excited about it. Funny how a new angle can arise from people 1,000 miles away who just want to poke holes in something - which I appreciate.

The larger point is:

Pedestal development is cool. Breaking up massing on a LARGE site is not only cool but also creates value. Thinking outside the BOX in general brings value. OKC's development is noticeably less sophisticated than comparable markets - why else would Milhaus name their first foray "LIFT" ? It's a nod to the fact that they are giving us a lift. OKC's development ether needs to get over this need to only develop monolithic blocks. This is why our downtown is not dynamic.

[bombermwc]

Just adding that the building discussed above has got to win one of the worst design awards of all time. That is AWFUL to the millionth degree. Much like so many disgusting "modern" designs, it's as if the more we mismatch a design with pieces that don't fit together, the more people think they're great designs. This is the type of crap that is going to be the first to go when we look at what to keep as historical preservation in 100 years. SH&T!!!

[Colbafone]

On the Trailhead hike yesterday, we passed by the Seiber apartments. I didn't know that it had once been a Motor Hotel. It pains me to see that place, and to know how cool this Motor Hotel could be as a residential building or really anything at all. And everytime I walk by Hotel Black, I see that little atrium type area on the top floor facing South and think what a cool restaurant that would be, especially with Core 2 Shore coming. That would be an awesome view.

[Urbanized]

Uhhhh...the Sieber already IS a residential building..? Not sure why it would pain you. It is actually one of the nicest housing conversions done in downtown over the past decade.

[Urbanized]

Sieber Apartments website