Going Clear

[MsProudSooner]

Anyone watch this documentary about Scientology on HBO this week?

There are a lot of 'religions' that I don't 'get', but I especially don't get this one.

[Pete]

I'll be Tivo-ing it.

I saw an interview with a guy that wrote a series of exposes on Scientology and he said they hired several private investigators to dig up dirt on him and follow him constantly. He said they went to great lengths to discredit him and try and stop his publisher from putting out the stories.

It's interesting stuff.. Anything so shrouded in secrecy will always draw suspicion.

[onthestrip]

Secrecy, slave labor, kidnappings, false imprisonment, coercion, blackmail, tax dodging, aliens...whats not to like. It is a very damning doc. Doesnt make Travolta and Cruise look very good either.

Its hard to think that people believe this religion. And if you think about it, it resembles a not too much older religion of Mormonism. Which really doesnt look much different than another older religion of Chr...eh, nevermind.

The weirdest part is how insulated the members were/are. The former members that were in the doc were downright embarrassed how they were apart of something so wrong and crazy for so long. They had no idea of the opinions and accusations of outsiders when they were in the church. It took some crazy event or witnessing a wrong for them to have that aha moment and realize things were so bad that they had to leave the church.

[kevinpate]

The only thing I know about Scientology I learned from a South Park episode. And I have forgotten most of that.

[kevinpate]

dbl post. Apparently I also forgot I had already posted.

[Martin]

it was a really well put together documentary... i'll have to get the book. -M

[Pete]

Has it already aired?

I have my Tivo scheduled for Saturday AM.

[Martin]

yep... the first hbo showing was this past sunday night. -M

[kevinpate]

I think I will set the DVR in a spell.

[RadicalModerate]

I would set the DVR, but only if the film involves cameo appearances by John Travolta, Kirstie Alley and Tom Cruise.
Oh! And if we had HBO as part of the Cox Bundle that I pay over twice as much for as a noob.
I guess those are at least three "issues" that becoming a Scientologist might erase from my brain.

[Martin]

it's crazy seeing scientology's "covert" responses trying to discredit the documentary. if you google any of the people who were interviewed or involved with it, the first result is a paid advertisement from "freedommag" with a hitpiece on the given person.

they also tried to use twitter to discredit the film: https://twitter.com/FreedomEthics

if anything, the crazy responses lend credit to the documentary's accusations. -M

[Dustin]

It was a very well made docu. One of the many crazy things that stood out to me was how much money people paid just to move up in the ranks and become "OT" (Operating Thetan).


Hundreds of thousands of dollars... And when you got to OT Level III, you were told the story about Xenu and how he brought aliens (thetans) to earth on golden space ships and dropped them into volcanos and the souls of those aliens become attached to us and cause all of our mental and physical ills. To rid yourself of these thetans, you have to sit through hours and hours and hours of "auditing" until you reach a state of "clear".

Absolutely mind-boggling that anyone could believe such garbage.

[Jim Kyle]

It's interesting stuff.. Anything so shrouded in secrecy will always draw suspicion.

If you're interested in where it came from, google for "dianetics" back in the late 40s. Another search term just might be "Rene Lafayette" which was the pen name that Hubbard used for his "light" SF writings, to distinguish them from his more serious stuff.

Before discovering dianetics, Hubbard was one of the more respected SF journeymen, although never considered in the same ranks as Heinlein, Asimov, and Clarke. After that discovery, he seemed to drop out of the active writing fraternity and concentrate on more profitable activities...

[RadicalModerate]

Let me run this up the flagpole and see who salutes . . . or jumps up and down on their chair ala Tom Cruise on the Oprah Show.
Scientology Song - Video

[Pete]

Just watched. Wow. Wow.

What was so powerful was people like Paul Haggis (famous director) and several former top Scientology executives telling these very detailed and specific details.

It's not hard to find those on the other side of any issue, but when you get people with that type of experience and access to all levels of dealings, it's pretty damn compelling.

I suppose past efforts to squelch this sort of thing (and those tactics are discussed in great detail) finally failed just because the world has become so interconnected.

As they say, the truth wants to be free.


Having said all that, the tactics and philosophies used by Scientology are present in virtually all organized religions and belief systems. And when you're on the inside and a believer it all looks very different than from the outside.

I've always taken the "whatever works for you" approach. There are people who get an amazing amount of strength and comfort and happiness from Scientology and that's just fine with me. I know there are all the sensational stories about exploitation and brain washing and manipulation, but you could find plenty of similar examples in any religion or belief system.


Some time ago, I was introduced by a friend to something called the Landmark Forum. It's best described as a group encounter seminar, where they get you to confront some inner demons then through a specific methodology and series of teachings and workshops, help you work through them in aid of greater happiness and fulfillment. It's not a religion but it's a belief system and organized somewhat similarly. There are others, but the Forum -- at least in Southern California -- is particularly popular. Subsequently, I've met a bunch of people who have all done it to some extent.

Anyway, it wasn't for me. I went as a favor to this friend who worked hard to convince me, and IMO it was just mass manipulation and then tons of pressure to keep taking classes and recruit more people.

But it's worked wonders in the lives of several people I know and love. And I'm happy for them and have never tried to run down the program to them, just like I completely respect my religious friends and family.


Also, the Landmark Forum has some really good core concepts that I still find helpful when thinking through certain things. I feel the same about most religions, too.

[Just the facts]

I would stay away from any 'belief system' that originates in California.

[MsProudSooner]

Just watched. Wow. Wow.

What was so powerful was people like Paul Haggis (famous director) and several former top Scientology executives telling these very detailed and specific details.

It's not hard to find those on the other side of any issue, but when you get people with that type of experience and access to all levels of dealings, it's pretty damn compelling.

I suppose past efforts to squelch this sort of thing (and those tactics are discussed in great detail) finally failed just because the world has become so interconnected.

As they say, the truth wants to be free.


Having said all that, the tactics and philosophies used by Scientology are present in virtually all organized religions and belief systems. And when you're on the inside and a believer it all looks very different than from the outside.

I've always taken the "whatever works for you" approach. There are people who get an amazing amount of strength and comfort and happiness from Scientology and that's just fine with me. I know there are all the sensational stories about exploitation and brain washing and manipulation, but you could find plenty of similar examples in any religion or belief system.


Some time ago, I was introduced by a friend to something called the Landmark Forum. It's best described as a group encounter seminar, where they get you to confront some inner demons then through a specific methodology and series of teachings and workshops, help you work through them in aid of greater happiness and fulfillment. It's not a religion but it's a belief system and organized somewhat similarly. There are others, but the Forum -- at least in Southern California -- is particularly popular. Subsequently, I've met a bunch of people who have all done it to some extent.

Anyway, it wasn't for me. I went as a favor to this friend who worked hard to convince me, and IMO it was just mass manipulation and then tons of pressure to keep taking classes and recruit more people.

But it's worked wonders in the lives of several people I know and love. And I'm happy for them and have never tried to run down the program to them, just like I completely respect my religious friends and family.


Also, the Landmark Forum has some really good core concepts that I still find helpful when thinking through certain things. I feel the same about most religions, too.

Did people have to pay for the classes?

[Pete]

Oh yes, and they aren't cheap.