University of Oklahoma SAE Fraternity Closed After Racist Video

[TheTravellers]

10 things black people fear that white people simply don?t - Salon.com

[adaniel]

Didn't want to start a new topic on this, but it looks like its another fraternity's turn to fry in the spotlight. From Tulane University in New Orleans:

Goat beheading video prompts Tulane University investigation | NOLA.com

Buddy who lives near Tulane's campus tells me they are currently investigating the FIJI (Phi Gamma Delta) house.

Also, I don't believe the story has a video, but in case it does it's HIGHLY NSFW and very graphic. I will not link the youtube version here.

[Pete]

Levi Petit, one of the SAE members that was expelled, met with black leaders today and then held a press conference.

NewsOK has a live Twitter account:

Expelled OU student says racist chant was 'disgusting,' he's ashamed he didn't stand up and stop it | News OK


That young man stood up, apologized and pledged to work against racism. Took a lot of guts.

[okatty]

Levi Petit, one of the SAE members that was expelled, met with black leaders today and then held a press conference.

NewsOK has a live Twitter account:

Expelled OU student says racist chant was 'disgusting,' he's ashamed he didn't stand up and stop it | News OK


That young man stood up, apologized and pledged to work against racism. Took a lot of guts.

Unbelieveable how well he did. Guts and then some.

[Pete]

It's even more impressive since he's from the Dallas area and made it a point to reach out to people in Oklahoma.

It said he apologized to Boren who accepted it. He also met with members of the football team.

Perhaps he'll be allowed to re-enroll at some point? Not sure if he would want to but if he does, I think he deserves a second chance.

[soonermike81]

Is Levi Petit the one on the bus pics that newsok has right now? If so, how could he be ashamed to not have stood up and stop the chant??? He was the one leading it! It may have taken a lot guts to meet with black leaders, hold a press conference, apologize, etc. But how sincere can he really be? Now, if some other kid came out and said that he was ashamed to not have stood up, I can understand. But not when it's the leader of the group

[dankrutka]

I'm glad he's making efforts, but there are a few things that give me pause. First, it's my understanding the family has hired a pricey PR firm for all this. That makes it hard to determine his authenticity. I wish his family had initially sought experts on the issue, not experts on image control. Second, it's my understanding that he is unwilling talk about what happened that led up to everything. If you're still protecting the fraternity/group/culture that may have contributed to all this, then doesn't that bring a bit of question to whether your commitment is to yourself or real change?

I'm just asking questions to consider what it takes for true reconciliation and change. I can't speak to what's in this kid's heart, but there are a number of things in the process and speech that give me pause... I hope he really does plan to dedicate his life to social justice.

[positano]

I'm glad he's making efforts, but there are a few things that give me pause. First, it's my understanding the family has hired a pricey PR firm for all this. That makes it hard to determine his authenticity. I wish his family had initially sought experts on the issue, not experts on image control. Second, it's my understanding that he is unwilling talk about what happened that led up to everything. If you're still protecting the fraternity/group/culture that may have contributed to all this, then doesn't that bring a bit of question to whether your commitment is to yourself or real change?

I'm just asking questions to consider what it takes for true reconciliation and change. I can't speak to what's in this kid's heart, but there are a number of things in the process and speech that give me pause... I hope he really does plan to dedicate his life to social justice.

Wise words. A bit premature for a rah-rah parade.

[td25er]

I'm glad he's making efforts, but there are a few things that give me pause. First, it's my understanding the family has hired a pricey PR firm for all this. That makes it hard to determine his authenticity. I wish his family had initially sought experts on the issue, not experts on image control. Second, it's my understanding that he is unwilling talk about what happened that led up to everything. If you're still protecting the fraternity/group/culture that may have contributed to all this, then doesn't that bring a bit of question to whether your commitment is to yourself or real change?

I'm just asking questions to consider what it takes for true reconciliation and change. I can't speak to what's in this kid's heart, but there are a number of things in the process and speech that give me pause... I hope he really does plan to dedicate his life to social justice.

So you want him to be a snitch? You want him to start naming names so other people's lives are in danger? I don't even think they are really true racists. They are just idiots. These same immature young men probably also make fun of fat people and make sexist comments, but most of them probably have fat friends and girlfriends. I guarantee you most of these guys have black friends.

[positano]

So you want him to be a snitch? You want him to start naming names so other people's lives are in danger?

How about "I've shared all the information I know with University investigators and given them my full cooperation." Not suggesting he has or he hasn't, but it might have been better than refusing to comment. Seemed like a pretty fair question to me.

[Midtowner]

Is Levi Petit the one on the bus pics that newsok has right now? If so, how could he be ashamed to not have stood up and stop the chant??? He was the one leading it! It may have taken a lot guts to meet with black leaders, hold a press conference, apologize, etc. But how sincere can he really be? Now, if some other kid came out and said that he was ashamed to not have stood up, I can understand. But not when it's the leader of the group

18-19 year old kids who consume more alcohol than they probably should don't always make the most positive life choices. A racist act does not quite make someone a racist.

[Midtowner]

IIf you're still protecting the fraternity/group/culture that may have contributed to all this, then doesn't that bring a bit of question to whether your commitment is to yourself or real change?

As soon as SAE's national office became aware of this, they suspended the chapter's charter. I'm assuming they will be following up by expelling all members who were involved after a thorough investigation. SAE has been crystal clear that this is not part of their culture. Other NIC groups have stepped up in their cultural competency training--and really, (and I can speak to this as an alumni volunteer who comes into contact with undergrad members from across the country) our groups are more diverse than ever before. It's hard to root out 150+ years of institutionalized racism, but progress is quickly being made.

[jerrywall]

There are some people who won't be satisfied until these boys have every aspect of their lives destroyed and or are dead as the victim of some sort of perceived vigilante "justice".

I believe SAE's action (the national org) in pulling the charter was appropriate. I believe OU's action in shutting down the frat was appropriate. Both of these actions targeted the source of the problem. A culture/org that encouraged and promoted these types of songs. Anything past these actions has been IMO too far, and even then, nothing these boys do, their apologies, their assuming responsibility, has been enough. I've seen their apologies over analyzed, criticized, and dismissed.

I didn't know there were so many perfect people in the world. Well, I remember what the world did to the last perfect person. We're gonna need a lot more crosses and nails...

[Pete]

It's a fair point that this kid is from a wealthy family and everything yesterday was very well orchestrated.

On the other hand, he was there on his own, meeting with community leaders and standing up in front of the mic. His parents weren't there; I didn't see any attorney's or PR people.

He's still a 19-20 year old college kid who stepped up and did this. He deserves props and forgiveness IMO.

[dankrutka]

18-19 year old kids who consume more alcohol than they probably should don't always make the most positive life choices. A racist act does not quite make someone a racist.

What a lame excuse. I have had my share of drinks in my life. I've never thought of chanting something like this. The results of the chant were the result of A SERIES OF CHOICES that culminated in being caught.

I am not here to bash a kid I don't know. I've been clear on that, but it's amazing how many excuses are made trying to brush away racism without any basis too. All the people saying "this kid probably isn't racist just because he did something racist" rarely provide evidence or reasoning for such a statement. The message is: racism is just a made up thing we shouldn't really be concerned with.

Discussions of racism are not easy and it's usually a matter of scale. Most everyone stereotypes "others" regularly so "racism" is really about scale and effects. If we're being honest, the more pertinent question than "is someone racist?" but "how racist are they?" To be able to do what that kid did is pretty far to the extreme on both scale and effects.

The SAE incident pretty much requires a culture of racism. My concern is whether we will make real progress on this issue, but if people keep pretending this was just an isolated mistake and not part of a larger cultural problem than nothing has been learned.

[dankrutka]

It's a fair point that this kid is from a wealthy family and everything yesterday was very well orchestrated.

On the other hand, he was there on his own, meeting with community leaders and standing up in front of the mic. His parents weren't there; I didn't see any attorney's or PR people.

He's still a 19-20 year old college kid who stepped up and did this. He deserves props and forgiveness IMO.

I generally agree. I can't imagine trying to speak in such a situation at his age. He generally did as well as he could at this point. I'm glad he is making steps...

My only problems with the prepared speech were: (A) he specifically said he shouldn't have "participated" in the chant and should have "stopped it." He was clearly leading it and he seemed to not take responsibility for his role. And (B), as I've pointed out, refusing to discuss the context is problematic. I don't expect him to name names, but he should explain how and why these things happened. He refused to address the culture of SAE, which is a big part of the issue.

[jerrywall]

To be able to do what that kid did is pretty far to the extreme on both scale and effects.

Really? I'd love to see that scale, because I'd have to wonder where actually lynching someone for being black would fall. Or actually voting to bar someone from joining for being black. Or lighting a cross on fire in someone's yard and dressing in a white robe. Because those seem extreme on scale and effects. A song on a bus seems stupid, and racist, but pretty low on the scale and effect.

[jerrywall]

He refused to address the culture of SAE, which is a big part of the issue.

Maybe because when the other kid apologized and addressed that, he was accused of making excuses?

[Pete]

I'm not sure the culture at SAE is at issue any more.

The national fraternity has pretty much pledged to educate all their chapters on this issue and everyone is on notice that if a song like that is even sung by a single guy in the shower, they could all be packing their bags in 48 hours.

Also, I'm very sure other fraternal organizations -- both national on a national and local level -- have put the word out to immediately stop anything remotely similar.

As we've discussed, almost every fraternity has 'basement songs' or 'dirty songs' and while I know those that I sung were not racist, they were vulgar and profane and if captured and shared on Youtube in today's climate, I also know there would be big consequences.

I think all that represents a pretty important shift, especially with these old organizations that love to carry traditions forward. I think everyone now realizes it's time to let a lot of them die if they want to continue to operate in the modern world.

[positano]

It's a fair point that this kid is from a wealthy family and everything yesterday was very well orchestrated.

On the other hand, he was there on his own, meeting with community leaders and standing up in front of the mic. His parents weren't there; I didn't see any attorney's or PR people.

He's still a 19-20 year old college kid who stepped up and did this. He deserves props and forgiveness IMO.

Pete, I don't disagree, at least completely. Forgiveness - absolutely. I'm with you. But I'm not ready to give props yet, at least without knowing the background (which I accept we may never know). I don't have a cite, but I thought I recalled reading that his parents were there. I also know there were a fair number of people there that weren't on camera - I have no idea how many "handlers" were involved, if any. I have no idea if the young man set this apology in motion of his own free will, or if he is simply following the instructions of others.

For simply making the apology, knowing the additional hits he would take, I appreciate his effort. But I won't go so far as to accept that this is completely genuine and evidence of the fact he has a full appreciation of the damage this incident has caused. I fully understand others may see this differently.

[traxx]

Both of these actions targeted the source of the problem. A culture/org that encouraged and promoted these types of songs.

Agree. It targeted the problem directly.

In comparison, the culture was deemed as being the problem at Penn St. The NCAA spoke to that directly in saying that was why they were being so harsh on PSU. It was to change a culture at PSU where football was so important that child rape had been allowed to be covered up for decades.

I don't know what the answer is, but it seems that the culture at PSU didn't/hasn't changed. Protests and rallys were held at PSU for Paterno and the football program, not for the abused children. PSU students and alum (for the most part, not all) portrayed themselves as the victims while seemingly forgetting about the very real victims that had been raped. The NCAA sanctions were lifted early and I have no idea why. As far as I can tell the culture hasn't changed at all. They still have a culture of football being more important than the lives of children who can't protect themselves.

And don't get me wrong, I'm not a football hater. I love football. I went to OU and love watching the football team win and hope for a few more NCs. But if it came to light that Mike had been raping boys for years and Bob had swept it under the rug, I'd want both gone immediately and things changed to where this kind of thing didn't happen anymore. Yeah, I would care that it hurts OU and the football team, but our priorities need to be in the right order.

[Pete]

For simply making the apology, knowing the additional hits he would take, I appreciate his effort. But I won't go so far as to accept that this is completely genuine and evidence of the fact he has a full appreciation of the damage this incident has caused. I fully understand others may see this differently.

We'll never know this one way or another and I don't see any benefit to anyone or any issue to continue to make this about this one person.

I believe very strongly in the good energy that flows from a spirit of forgiveness; especially when contrasted against the energy of anger and contempt.

And there is no debating, this one person has already paid a big price, so it's not like he just going to fool all of us then go happily skipping down the road. Watch the TED talk by Monica Lewinsky about the realities of public shaming; it's pretty compelling.

[PhiAlpha]

The SAE incident pretty much requires a culture of racism. My concern is whether we will make real progress on this issue, but if people keep pretending this was just an isolated mistake and not part of a larger cultural problem than nothing has been learned.

With all due respect, you have only seen this situation as it has been portrayed by the media and you have absolutely no idea what you're talking about. The same can probably be said for nearly everyone else that has posted throughout the 18 pages of this thread.

[jn1780]

We'll never know this one way or another and I don't see any benefit to anyone or any issue to continue to make this about this one person.

I believe very strongly in the good energy that flows from a spirit of forgiveness; especially when contrasted against the energy of anger and contempt.

And there is no debating, this one person has already paid a big price, so it's not like he just going to fool all of us then go happily skipping down the road. Watch the TED talk by Monica Lewinsky about the realities of public shaming; it's pretty compelling.

He also didn't have to say anything. OU already kicked him out and he could have just went back to Texas and became irrelevant a few months from now. One thing about angry mobs is that they have short attention spans. The next issue is only one headline or Facebook post away.

[Midtowner]

What a lame excuse. I have had my share of drinks in my life. I've never thought of chanting something like this. The results of the chant were the result of A SERIES OF CHOICES that culminated in being caught.

I don't know how much time you've spent with people in this particular age group, but no, you don't have enough facts to really know what you're talking about here. With these basement songs, the point is not to proclaim racial superiority. The idea is usually to get attention by shocking the audience. While mostly not racial (I've never heard a racist one like the one being discussed here), these songs are always profane and mostly sacreligious.

You're making a lot of assumptions here because you are not culturally competent with this particular demographic.