Development that will make Dallas and KC Jealous?

[Laramie]

Let's say we do get one project that makes Dallas & Kansas City jealous, so what?

We could talk about this until the cows comes home.

[adaniel]

I've not a fan of this thread and I'm posting this against my better judgement.

I have heard quite a few people in Dallas point to the river improvements in OKC, among other cities, as what to do with the Trinity River. The city has been playing around for years now on what to do with it. The plans are very nice but they are only being applied in piecemeal fashion, and this all is threatend by a plan to put a six line freeway INSIDE the river levees.

For the record, the Trinity is a much better looking natural river than the Canadian, especially just south of Downtown Dallas. But it has been so mismanaged its just sad. They put in some artificial rapids (somewhat similar to the whitewater rapids OKC is getting) and it has been closed off and on for years. I was thinking of doing it with a friend this spring but everyone I've talked to says its quite dangerous.

I can't speak on KC's riverfront, except that they have a few obnoxious casinos right on the shore.

[hoya]

I've been thinking about this for quite a while now, particularly since the convention center problems that have appeared recently. I think that a single project, unless it's something on the scale of a Disney park (which probably won't happen), isn't going to make any other city jealous (except Tulsa). However, I also think that any single project is no longer necessary to the success of downtown OKC.

If we allow downtown, and the downtown adjacent areas, to develop naturally, with good urban design standards, then 25 years from now you'll have a city of which other people will be very jealous. Now this means connecting the state capitol area on 23rd with the OUHSC with good, walkable development. It means connecting Bricktown and Deep Deuce with the HSC as well, so that it flows together as one, almost seamless, area. It means good development in the Core 2 Shore area. It means redeveloping Classen and Western. It means tripling or quadrupling the population of downtown. It means turning the river into a thriving area, and turning the Lumber Yard/Cotton Mill/salvage yard area into a great series of neighborhoods. It means the Wheeler District succeeding, and a half-dozen more neighborhoods similar to it and Chisolm Creek popping up around the city. It means getting a regional rail system operational and getting good TOD (even if at a fairly small scale) at each stop.

If the city develops the way it can, with intelligent planning and continued investment, then we aren't really going to care about whether we got a Great Wolf Lodge (which is my guess on what the "jealousy" project was/is) back in 2017, or whenever this thing is supposed to be built. We are moving beyond needing one key project to define our city.

[Zorba]

It's goes way beyond that. I can't image coming into a city that looks as bad as OKC does coming from a city like Dallas and being jealous of a White Water center.

I'll list everything I am envious of Dallas.

You can be jealous of something in the city, without being jealous of the city. I am very jealous about Cedar Point in Sandusky, OH. Outside of Cedar Point, I'd rather live in Wichita than Sandusky.

When I was in the process of moving here, I stayed in Bricktown a few weeks. I couldn't believe the number of row teams from all over the country staying down there. There was a whole club from San Diego and Atlanta (plus many more).

The White Water facility is a huge get, the fact that you don't think so just shows you know nothing about "outside" sports. Hell, every time I go to REI in Dallas, the employees always talk about how jealous of Rocktown they are, because they don't have anything that tall in Dallas, and it is just "fake" rock. Not to mention they drive to the Wichita Mountains to climb.

BTW: In 2013 Outside Magazine ranked OKC as one of the best cities to live in, and specifically talks about the Boathouse district and Rocktown. So obviously, people are noticing, just not the people you hang out with. Also, KC and Dallas were both absent from the list.

[Plutonic Panda]

It's laughable to say Dallas is going to be jealous of the White Water course, but I'm done arguing about that.

One other thing I thought of that would make Dallas jealous is an Ivy Leauge university here. The entire state of Texas doesn't even have an ivy Leauge university.

[ZYX2]

Considering that neither Oklahoma nor Texas are in the northeast, I don't think that will ever be a consideration.

[Zorba]

It's laughable to say Dallas is going to be jealous of the White Water course, but I'm done arguing about that.

One other thing I thought of that would make Dallas jealous is an Ivy Leauge university here. The entire state of Texas doesn't even have an ivy Leauge university.

It is laughable to think 7m people will be universally jealous of anything. There will a nice chunk of that population (Yes, in the thousands, not millions) that will be jealous of the white water center. Then again, I go to North Park Mall more often than anyone I know that actually lives in DFW.

The Windstar casino also proves that a lot of the DFW area is jealous of our casinos.

Also show me anything in Dallas that comes close the Riverparks/Turkey Mountain in Tulsa. I know when I was thinking about moving to DFW the massive lack of outdoor activities and facilities was a massive turnoff. The couple of decent parks they do have charge entry fees. After I did a lot of research, I started thinking of Dallas as I place I enjoy going, but probably wouldn't want to live there. Things like the white water facility help solidify that opinion (from someone that has only lived here 18 months).

[Laramie]

The Windstar casino also proves that a lot of the DFW area is jealous of our casinos.

Winstar Casino is heavily supported by Dallas, Ft. Worth & Oklahoma City.

[Plutonic Panda]

It is laughable to think 7m people will be universally jealous of anything. There will a nice chunk of that population (Yes, in the thousands, not millions) that will be jealous of the white water center. Then again, I go to North Park Mall more often than anyone I know that actually lives in DFW.

The Windstar casino also proves that a lot of the DFW area is jealous of our casinos.

Also show me anything in Dallas that comes close the Riverparks/Turkey Mountain in Tulsa. I know when I was thinking about moving to DFW the massive lack of outdoor activities and facilities was a massive turnoff. The couple of decent parks they do have charge entry fees. After I did a lot of research, I started thinking of Dallas as I place I enjoy going, but probably wouldn't want to live there. Things like the white water facility help solidify that opinion (from someone that has only lived here 18 months).

Winstar casino is NOT in Oklahoma City and if gambling was legal in Texas, you'd likely see resort style casinos in Dallas that would blow Winstar out of the water. Winstar is extremely impressive, but it serves as a regional draw from the entire state of Texas.

If people want something like Turkey Mountain, they will go to Austin. Tulsa is not even in the equation because the city is so insignificant. There is a huge number of outdoor activities in Dallas. If you'd like, I'll post what I know and what is to come.

You can bet Dallas will build a white water rapids course if it becomes popular with people around the Dallas metro. If it is that attractive, they will build one that will eclipse our 35 million dollar one, that you can believe.

Like I said, it doesn't matter how realistic it is, you want to beat Dallas?

They have an incredible highway and road network.
A huge airport with non-stop destinations all over the globe.
Corporate relocations that are seemingly announced monthly.
A world class shopping scene.
A very active recreation community with tons of parks, cougars as far as the eye can see, bike and jogging trails, and other various outdoor activities. Keep in mind, the Texas HSR is of great interest to TxDOT and will be built in the coming years. That will connect to Austin, Houston, and San Antonion(all cities that also are very active with tons of outdoor parks and destinations including hiking, rock climbing, actual white water rafting etc.) within less than a two hour ride to a 200+ MPH bullet train.
A huge mass transit system that can get you all over the city via light-rail, trolley, bus, or regional rail.

I mean I can go on and on here.

It will take a 5-10 square mile robust high-tech sector such as a miniature silicon valley, Disney or Universal theme park, Spaceport, or an Ivy League University to make Dallas jealous. As awesome as Dallas is, it doesn't have those things. OKC gets just one of those mentioned, I assure you, it will make a lot of people in Dallas jealous. Much more than our artificial white water course will.

For now, the only thing that we beat Dallas at is our zoo. As cool as our River District is, it is NOT something that people in Dallas are sad to leave and wish they had something like it. They are already planning something bigger and better along the Trinity River and regardless of what Adaniel thinks, if the 8 lane tollway is indeed built, it will in no way shape or form mess it up.

I only lived there for five year and in North Dallas alone found endless walking, jogging, biking trails all connected to huge parks that were packed with people of all walks of life. I should know as I walked all over throughout Richardson, Addison, Plano, and North Dallas occasionally venturing into Frisco.

What we have here is failure to see or perhaps just a personal bias against a city you just flat out don't like because it is bigger and better than OKC will ever be. You don't believe me, PM me and I'll set a date and time and we can go to Dallas and I'll show you what the city has to offer and you can do your research in person. For now, when I get back from the GYM or maybe tomorrow, I'll post images and upcoming projects regarding outdoor life in Dallas because I promise you it exists.

[no1cub17]

Venice does seem nice as well as Amsterdam, however, I will not be visiting those cities for highways or wide roads. I don't go to dense urban cities and complain about their not being wide highways and roads. I love that about Dallas and it needs to stay that way. I'd also like to see Oklahoma City model from Dallas in that regard.

I don't want OKC to model a single thing after Dallas. I mean we already are by building multilane boulevards through the urban fabric of our city, so I guess you win.

[no1cub17]

I'm going to Venice in October Plupan, I'll give you a full report.

Enjoy! It's incredible, really doesn't seem real. Weather in October should be perfect as well, and hopefully (relatively) fewer tourists. It'd be so much better if we didn't have to walk everywhere though, sheesh. Really missed my 20 lane boulevards when we were there.

[Zorba]

Winstar casino is NOT in Oklahoma City and if gambling was legal in Texas, you'd likely see resort style casinos in Dallas that would blow Winstar out of the water. Winstar is extremely impressive, but it serves as a regional draw from the entire state of Texas.

I agree Oklahoma casinos suck and if Texas had legalized gambling, they'd have better casinos, but they don't. There are obviously a lot of people in Texas that are jealous of our legal casinos, as evidenced by how massive Windstar is in the middle of nowhere. They want casinos, we have them (in the OKC metro even). I think that meets the standard of being jealous.

If people want something like Turkey Mountain, they will go to Austin. Tulsa is not even in the equation because the city is so insignificant. There is a huge number of outdoor activities in Dallas. If you'd like, I'll post what I know and what is to come.

You are right, no body in DFW wishes they had urban hiking, or more than 50 miles of connected lighted paved trails. Never mind when I worked at American in Tulsa, people from all of the major cities (DFW, LAX, ORD, MIA, JFK, LGA, SJU, BOS) came into town once a month for meetings, quite a few of them went to the river trails and/or Turkey Mountain every time because they liked them so much. My friend that just moved to ATL complains about the lack of good trails there, as compared to Tulsa.

Again, Sandusky, OH is a completely insignificant town, that has the best amusement park in the world. I think any city would be jealous of that.

They have an incredible highway and road network.
A huge airport with non-stop destinations all over the globe.
Corporate relocations that are seemingly announced monthly.
A world class shopping scene.
A very active recreation community with tons of parks, cougars as far as the eye can see, bike and jogging trails, and other various outdoor activities. Keep in mind, the Texas HSR is of great interest to TxDOT and will be built in the coming years. That will connect to Austin, Houston, and San Antonion(all cities that also are very active with tons of outdoor parks and destinations including hiking, rock climbing, actual white water rafting etc.) within less than a two hour ride to a 200+ MPH bullet train.

I agree, DFW is great. I love it down there, but that doesn't mean there isn't a single thing that OKC may have better than them. It is completely illogical for you to think me saying that some people in Dallas will be jealous of an Olympic level training facility is me implying the Dallas sucks and OKC is better.

A huge mass transit system that can get you all over the city via light-rail, trolley, bus, or regional rail.

Dallas mass transit sucks. When I worked at AA I spent a lot of time at DFW and the mass transit was worthless. Chicago, New York, DC, Seattle, yeah they have real mass transit. Dallas is trying, but it can't hold a candle to a real mass transit system (obviously it is way better than OKC).

It will take a 5-10 square mile robust high-tech sector such as a miniature silicon valley, Disney or Universal theme park, Spaceport, or an Ivy League University to make Dallas jealous. As awesome as Dallas is, it doesn't have those things. OKC gets just one of those mentioned, I assure you, it will make a lot of people in Dallas jealous. Much more than our artificial white water course will.

I take "jealous" as "Man, I wish we had that here!" Not as "Holy crap! I have to move to OKC NOW because they just got X." There will be a segment of the DFW population that says "Man, I wish we had that here" about the White Water Facility. Will the mayor of Dallas issue a day of mourning that OKC has a white water facility and they don't? No.

For now, the only thing that we beat Dallas at is our zoo. As cool as our River District is, it is NOT something that people in Dallas are sad to leave and wish they had something like it. They are already planning something bigger and better along the Trinity River and regardless of what Adaniel thinks, if the 8 lane tollway is indeed built, it will in no way shape or form mess it up.

So you know for a fact that no one in Dallas is sad to not have the boat house district? If no one is sad to leave it, or jealous of it, why are they trying to copy it? I really don't understand why you think more people in Dallas are jealous of our zoo than will be jealous of an Olympic training facility for a sport that can't be done in nature within the metro area or even within a few hour drive of the metro area.

What we have here is failure to see or perhaps just a personal bias against a city you just flat out don't like because it is bigger and better than OKC will ever be. You don't believe me, PM me and I'll set a date and time and we can go to Dallas and I'll show you what the city has to offer and you can do your research in person. For now, when I get back from the GYM or maybe tomorrow, I'll post images and upcoming projects regarding outdoor life in Dallas because I promise you it exists.

Yeah, I have a bias against DFW because it is just so great, and so much better than OKC (a city I've lived in a whole 18 months). I've been going to Dallas my whole life, as I have family there. I traveled there at least monthly for years with my last company, which has resulted in me having a lot of friends there. I've also had multiple job offers in Dallas that I have turned down for various reasons. I like Dallas, I still go down there all the time. If the right opportunity came knocking I'd have no issue moving there. But I can still appreciate the things that are better about OKC, Tulsa, Cincinnati, etc.

I think the bias here is yours in thinking that everything about OKC is worse than anything in Dallas. Name any metro area around here I could tell you something they have that OKC and Dallas could be jealous of. I can do this because I've lived enough places to know nowhere is perfect and everywhere has strengths and weaknesses.

[Bellaboo]

Like I've said before, my sister and brother in law have lived north of Ft Worth for years and have recently retired. And like they say, don't get out on a highway until after 9:00 am, and make sure you leave to come home before 3:00 pm or wait until after 7:00 pm. They have to plan their day around the traffic, and that would just suck.

[bchris02]

^^^ Different places fit different personalities. I personally love Dallas. When I go down there the city just resonates with me. Not everyone feels that way however. Some people like small cities like OKC, Tulsa, Cincinnati, etc. There are people, some who post here, who live in Dallas and are surrounded by all it offers but wish they lived in OKC. Different places offer different things and everywhere has things that other cities, both larger and smaller, may be jealous of. I've lived in Little Rock and overall I would say it's well below OKC in terms of comparison but it has some things that OKC can't even come close to matching. In fact, Turkey Mountain in Tulsa is a poor man's version of Pinnacle Mountain in Little Rock (a truly awesome place). That's not saying I would pack up and move to Little Rock. If the right opportunity came knocking I maybe could live there but it is nowhere near the top of my list. For those looking for a big city experience, Dallas will beat OKC every time. Not everybody is looking for that though and to them, they may prefer OKC over Dallas.

[okclee]

I hope that the News ok guy Steve makes money each time a person clicks onto this thread topic.
It 's approaching 20K views!

[Plutonic Panda]

Like I've said before, my sister and brother in law have lived north of Ft Worth for years and have recently retired. And like they say, don't get out on a highway until after 9:00 am, and make sure you leave to come home before 3:00 pm or wait until after 7:00 pm. They have to plan their day around the traffic, and that would just suck.

Man, I am down there like once a week and sometimes more.

Bellaboo, no offense to your relatives, but that statement is complete bullsh!t. You do NOT have to plan around traffic in Dallas. Rush hour does NOT go from 3 to 7. I was on the NDT last week doing 92 at 4:20 with one small slow down at Lover LN and then it sped back up to about 70 or so than slowed back down to about 30-40 from Forest to Beltline and sped back up all the way until I got off at the Sam Rayburn Toll. I was getting close to 100 in some spots never getting below 75. This notion here that Dallas has nightmare traffic is laughable.

I have been stuck in bad traffic before in Dallas, but is nothing worse than what I have encountered here during a wreck. Every large city is going to have bad traffic during hour. Highways get congested in Dallas during hour. Yes, it happens. In a city of 7 million people, I don't care if you have 50 lane highways, you are going to see congestion. I have experienced traffic in L.A. and Houston and THAT is bad traffic. Dallas highways do a pretty damn good job at moving people and the cry baby urbanist need to shut up and just stay out of the city if the highways bother them.

[Plutonic Panda]

I agree Oklahoma casinos suck and if Texas had legalized gambling, they'd have better casinos, but they don't. There are obviously a lot of people in Texas that are jealous of our legal casinos, as evidenced by how massive Windstar is in the middle of nowhere. They want casinos, we have them (in the OKC metro even). I think that meets the standard of being jealous.

You know, I should just not even acknowledge this laughable post right when I saw you think people in Dallas are jealous of casinos in OKC. That is hilarious. Like I said, Winstar is a great casino and a lot of people enjoy coming down to the border for it. Not much jealousy there other than some might like to have something like it in the DFW.

Again, we're talking about OKC, but nice job changing the criteria to make yourself look good. That casino has nothing to do with Dallas being jealous of OKLAHOMA CITY.

You are right, no body in DFW wishes they had urban hiking, or more than 50 miles of connected lighted paved trails. Never mind when I worked at American in Tulsa, people from all of the major cities (DFW, LAX, ORD, MIA, JFK, LGA, SJU, BOS) came into town once a month for meetings, quite a few of them went to the river trails and/or Turkey Mountain every time because they liked them so much. My friend that just moved to ATL complains about the lack of good trails there, as compared to Tulsa.

Again, Sandusky, OH is a completely insignificant town, that has the best amusement park in the world. I think any city would be jealous of that.

Yeah, I clearly said no one in Dallas wants hiking trails. So where in OKC is that? Oh that's right, you have to go to Sandusky Ohio and then point out their amusement park. I can't speak for Atlanta, but I'll put some facts on your ass because you(and everyone else who liked your comment) apparently just don't realize what Dallas has to offer and always gripe about traffic and lack of outdoor activities.

You know what else, I've recently been to Turkey Mountain and it had to be one of the biggest jokes I had ever seen as hyped up as it was. It was cool for a place to get away, but if anything, I'd rather go to the Wichita Mountains, Arbuckles, or the Ozarks over going to Tulsa. They are much better, more expansive, and more to see and do.

Guess what? THERE ARE OVER 100 MILES MAJOR HARD SURFACE TRAILS IN DALLAS! That is only the major ones. There are tons of new trails and projects constantly being added to the mix. But yeah, continue along your flawed thinking they don't exist.

Educate yourself:

DFW Area Bike Trails - BikeDFW

Texas Walking Trails | TrailLink

Best in DFW: The top running trails in town | Dallas Morning News

Trail and Preserve Program, Dallas County, Texas

10 Top Trails For Hiking and Biking in Dallas - D Magazine

Dallas Trails - Best Dallas camping, hiking & biking trails | AllTrails.com

I agree, DFW is great. I love it down there, but that doesn't mean there isn't a single thing that OKC may have better than them. It is completely illogical for you to think me saying that some people in Dallas will be jealous of an Olympic level training facility is me implying the Dallas sucks and OKC is better.

You're right.

With all the wealth down there... people are going to stop going to places like this







and they're going to opt for this in OKC next to a bunch of old metal buildings



Man, I bet people in Dallas just can't wait!

Dallas mass transit sucks. When I worked at AA I spent a lot of time at DFW and the mass transit was worthless. Chicago, New York, DC, Seattle, yeah they have real mass transit. Dallas is trying, but it can't hold a candle to a real mass transit system (obviously it is way better than OKC).

WOW! Mass transit in Dallas certainly does not suck. I found out for the first time how expansive Dallas's mass transit system was the other week. There was nowhere I wanted to go I couldn't without a car. Everything was within a 10-20 minute walk which I enjoy. I though walking was also something urbanist push for in being a healthier lifestyle to live?

Either way, most of what I wanted was within a five minute walk for any station and there was bus stops, street level trolleys connecting to underground rail. But no, lets say Dallas's mass transit sucks because a city like Chicago or NYC does it better. Next up, let's compare the availability of taxis in a place like NYC to Sandusky, Ohio.

Oh, and Dallas's already expansive bus and rail system has more projects under construction and planned. I also hope Dallas never gets a mass transit system like NYC's because I prefer great highways with good mass transit compared to great mass transit and alright highways. You mass transit, move to NYC. Surely finding a job up there shouldn't be hard since it's always said on here mass transit leads to prosperity and great cities, which is weird how Dallas is prospering without it.

I take "jealous" as "Man, I wish we had that here!" Not as "Holy crap! I have to move to OKC NOW because they just got X." There will be a segment of the DFW population that says "Man, I wish we had that here" about the White Water Facility. Will the mayor of Dallas issue a day of mourning that OKC has a white water facility and they don't? No.

OK, well that is completely subjective. I am saying I DON'T think that many people will leave wishing they had something like our white water facility in Dallas. If I'm wrong, they will more than likely build one better than ours.

If we got something like I mentioned earlier, that would make Dallas jealous in ways you or I wouldn't understand.

So you know for a fact that no one in Dallas is sad to not have the boat house district? If no one is sad to leave it, or jealous of it, why are they trying to copy it? I really don't understand why you think more people in Dallas are jealous of our zoo than will be jealous of an Olympic training facility for a sport that can't be done in nature within the metro area or even within a few hour drive of the metro area.

Give me a break. There is probably someone in Dallas who is sad they don't have Eskimo Joe's in Stillwater there, that doesn't mean they're jealous of the city.

Yeah, I have a bias against DFW because it is just so great, and so much better than OKC (a city I've lived in a whole 18 months). I've been going to Dallas my whole life, as I have family there. I traveled there at least monthly for years with my last company, which has resulted in me having a lot of friends there. I've also had multiple job offers in Dallas that I have turned down for various reasons. I like Dallas, I still go down there all the time. If the right opportunity came knocking I'd have no issue moving there. But I can still appreciate the things that are better about OKC, Tulsa, Cincinnati, etc.

There is nothing, nothing, better in OKC or Tulsa than Dallas besides our Zoo.

I think the bias here is yours in thinking that everything about OKC is worse than anything in Dallas. Name any metro area around here I could tell you something they have that OKC and Dallas could be jealous of. I can do this because I've lived enough places to know nowhere is perfect and everywhere has strengths and weaknesses.

Tell yourself what ever you want to help you sleep at night.

I just showed some friends(some of which are very active people) who live in Dallas and they laughed they're asses off that some people on this site think Dallas is going to be jealous of our white water facility. Quite frankly it's a little embarrassing.

I'm done with this conversation. You can have the word and I'm not posting on this thread after this. You want to make Dallas jealous, you're going to have to do a little better than an artificial white water course.

There are tons of things I can think of to do it, but they will never happen in this city. Dallas is simply on another level. But by all means, let's compare Dallas to NYC and Chicago because that's more fun. Dallas is an awesome city with more to offer than anything this city or Tulsa can and ever will and that's the end of it. I'm done here.

Edit: sorry if I said anything offensive to you, but this same crap of Dallas has too much traffic and congestion and no outdoor activities gets very annoying. Even Tulsa has a very cool active outdoor scene that OKC can't match and even with the new trails and white water course, is still going to be behind for a little while.

[Urbanized]

That sure was a lot of typing.

[Bellaboo]

That sure was a lot of typing.

For absolutely nothing.

[Geographer]

I love this thread.

[Urbanized]

Me too. Also, I hate it.

[bchris02]

It's one thing to like OKC better than Dallas for your own reasons, but I can't believe some of the untruths about Dallas that get thrown around here, even by a particular poster who lives there. PluPan did a pretty good job at expounding on some of them.

OKC will never be Dallas and that is because of the vast difference between a city of only 1.3 million people and one of 7 million, but I think there are numerous things Dallas does that could be replicated on a smaller scale in OKC and this city would be better for it.

[Just the facts]

Personally, I don't want anything thay would make Dallas jealous, because what would interest a majority of Dallas residents wouldn't interest me at all. However, maybe Steve was talking about a subset of the population since he said this to the OKC urban-minded population, as in, OKC could get an urban project that will make the Dallas and KC urbanist jealous.

[jerrywall]

I'm done with this conversation. You can have the word and I'm not posting on this thread after this.

Don't believe it. Isn't this about the 50th time I've seen this statement about a thread or an entire sub forum by someone... it never sticks.

Flipping the table is neither mature nor productive. I think there is a constant negativity which seems so pervasive in some folks' minds about OKC. "OKC will never" , "OKC could never", "Progress is dying", "No new stuff is happening", etc, etc. So much of an immature and a grass is always greener mindset, and quite a bit of an inferiority complex.

[soondoc]

Panda was actually spot on. Sadly, Dallas will most likely ever be jealous of anything in OKC,. Fact it, for all the improvements and strides this city has made, it will never be more than what it currently is and that is just "average" for several reasons. The main reason is although their are many bright minds with incredible vision of what this city could be, most of them leave to go to places like DFW or Austin. The fact is that this city and state are controlled by a select few (ironic isn't it) that run the show. For them to brag about intrusion from the government, and pro-business, etc., our leaders are some of the most hypocritical, corrupt people in the nation that operate under the name of good, yet actually support a few select few. I don't think that will ever change. It will scare off many more companies who might otherwise want to be a part of this city. In fact, i bet in 20 years from now, Oklahoma will still have the same liquor laws in place that support the few chosen ones that have paid off the people down at the Capitol. Also, in 20 years from now, the Cotton Mill will still be in place and the lower end of BT will still be Hogan owned and in decline. Also, OKC's airport will have more more terminal and mild increase in traffic yet not be a top 75 in the country in size. OKC simply does not have the vision like other places or ways to make things happen. They finds ways to cheap out on so many things and that is what seperates us from them.

Don't think any of the above will ever make DFW jealous. I will say this however. Their is one thing about KC that has and does make people jealous. For a much smaller city, the Country Club Plaza is one of the coolest areas in the country. It is modeled after Seville, Spain and is simply amazing. If anyone has not been there, it is worth the trip to check out. It is fun in the spring and summer, not bad in the fall and magical at Christmas time. It all begins with the lighting festival where a half of a million people gather for it on Thanksgiving night. DFW has nothing like that, I wish OKC could re-create something similiar near DT.