2015 Oklahoma Commercial Aviation Discussion

[gopokes88]

Having connected at DFW numerous times now, I can honestly say it's a ton better than it was back in the day (pre-2005 to be exact). That's before the new Terminal D and the Skylink were both built.

The taxi times can be either short or long, but DFW is big and big airports almost always have long taxi times. Nothing you can do about that. Either you have a hub with plenty of runways (less congstion) or you have a hub airport that is bursting at the seams (Heathrow).

To say it's a "dump" is rather harsh. Go to Paris Charles de Gaulle, which truly is a dump. Makes DFW's terminals look way better. Not to mention the "airport tour" you get when you arrive on an international flight (not that I mind since I am an aviation enthusiast, but most people are not fans of that place to say the least).

If you give yourself enough time and fly when the weather's not an issue, DFW wins in my books anyway. I do like DAL though. I liked it before the new terminal was built, but it's even better now.

Plus it has one of these.

Dallas Fort Worth (DFW) | The CENTURION(sm) Lounge

[brianinok]

DFW is a huge hub airport. Any huge hub airport in inclement weather is going to have delay and cancellation issues.

DAL is not a huge hub airport. It does not have that many more gates than OKC. Though it is busier than OKC, DAL simply cannot be compared to DFW when bad weather (or marginally bad weather) strikes.

Really, DFW probably should not even be compared to northern huge hubs because those airports should have their act together even more. ORD, DEN, MSP, etc. should be able to handle snow and ice better than DFW, ATL, CLT, etc. because these hub airports do not consistently (weekly, often, whatever....) during the winter get that type of weather and aren't as prepared as northern hubs.

Just like cities that maintain roads in the south (OKC, DFW, etc.) do an okay job of plowing and sanding after snow and ice, they cannot compare to the preparedness of cities in the north. Northern cities plow and sand even minor and neighborhood roads. Southern cities just do not have the equipment for that.

[venture]

Just like cities that maintain roads in the south (OKC, DFW, etc.) do an okay job of plowing and sanding after snow and ice, they cannot compare to the preparedness of cities in the north. Northern cities plow and sand even minor and neighborhood roads. Southern cities just do not have the equipment for that.

Well...plow and salt. Might just be where I grew up though, but they never used sand.

[adaniel]

Seems like I was misunderstood. I did not mean to suggest to connect in DAL over DFW (although if you can then go for it). But way too many people in OKC have a mind block that DFW is the hub they can use. Depending on where you are going in the country there are much better IMO.

At one point I was using DIA and ATL quite a bit and it blew me away how much smoother these airports ran compared to DFW.

[ljbab728]

+ no international travel. SW is having to use Houston as its carribbean hub.

WN is also using Atlanta for international flights.

[venture]

WN is also using Atlanta for international flights.

They are going to have around 10-15 gateway cities for international. They also currently have international flying from SAT, AUS, SNA, DEN, BWI, MDW, MKE, and MCO.

[s00nr1]

At one point I was using DIA and ATL quite a bit and it blew me away how much smoother these airports ran compared to DFW.

ATL better than DFW?? Oh boy do we differ in opinion there. I avoid ATL whenever possible.

[ljbab728]

They are going to have around 10-15 gateway cities for international. They also currently have international flying from SAT, AUS, SNA, DEN, BWI, MDW, MKE, and MCO.

True, I was just making a point that HOU was not particularly "it's hub for international travel". There are more international destinations from ATL than from HOU.

[damonsmuz]

Anyone have an idea once AA phases out the Mad Dogs what aircraft type will take us to DFW? Are we a 737 station or an A319 station or a mix of both and RJs?

[venture]

Anyone have an idea once AA phases out the Mad Dogs what aircraft type will take us to DFW? Are we a 737 station or an A319 station or a mix of both and RJs?

They are shopping around right now for the lower end mainline aircraft, so which ever they pick is what we'll get. I wouldn't be shocked if we went all RJ, but we could end up more like what DL to ATL is/was with a mix of various a/c types.

[damonsmuz]

Venture: How much more "lower end" is there for a mainline aircraft than the A319? Flown in them..they may smell fresh but the seats are firm and the legroom is tight.

[venture]

Venture: How much more "lower end" is there for a mainline aircraft than the A319? Flown in them..they may smell fresh but the seats are firm and the legroom is tight.

There is a rumor they may get the CS 300s. Don't forget the ERJ 190s are mainline as well (from USAir).

[Bunty]

Turning to a different subject, here's an interesting development in Stillwater's continuing efforts in trying to get airline service. Two million is surely a lot of money toward realizing that goal.
Oklahoma State pledges $2M to bring air service to Stillwater - Stillwater News Press: News

[damonsmuz]

I understand the desire for OSU to want an airline in the city. It probably makes the town seem less far away for parents knowing that they don't have to fly and then drive an hour to see their kid. But me thinks that the likelihood SWO gets any air service is very small. How many flights a day are they wanting? 1 flight? 2 flights?

[Bunty]

I understand the desire for OSU to want an airline in the city. It probably makes the town seem less far away for parents knowing that they don't have to fly and then drive an hour to see their kid. But me thinks that the likelihood SWO gets any air service is very small. How many flights a day are they wanting? 1 flight? 2 flights?

I don't know. Though somewhat too big with other more favorable circumstances to be directly comparable to Stillwater, Manhattan, Kansas has airline service to Dallas and Chicago, which has been doing so good that it has managed to increase the number of passengers it boards every year for quite some time. Hopefully, there is some other town or two, more comparable to Stillwater doing well with its airline service.

Stillwater could draw air passengers from surrounding towns, most noteworthy, Enid and Ponca City. If people from there could park for free at the Stillwater airport, that could offset the higher ticket prices to Dallas along with a small savings on gas and driving time. Of course, someone may want to point out that support from nearby towns must not have showed up enough when Enid and Ponca City formerly had airline service.

[Snowman]

I don't know. Though somewhat too big with other more favorable circumstances to be directly comparable to Stillwater, Manhattan, Kansas has airline service to Dallas and Chicago, which has been doing so good that it has managed to increase the number of passengers it boards every year for quite some time. Hopefully, there is some other town or two, more comparable to Stillwater doing well with its airline service.

Stillwater could draw air passengers from surrounding towns, most noteworthy, Enid and Ponca City. If people from there could park for free at the Stillwater airport, that could offset the higher ticket prices to Dallas along with a small savings on gas and driving time. Of course, someone may want to point out that support from nearby towns must not have showed up enough when Enid and Ponca City formerly had airline service.

The tough thing about pickup travelers for Stillwater/Enid/Ponca City from any of the others, is that they are just far enough when any of them have regular service to a hub that for the others there is really little time/distance saved verses traveling to airports at OKC, Tulsa, or Wichita.

[bradh]

Manhattan also has Fort Riley to help with traffic.

[venture]

Manhattan pretty much plateaued in 2012 and has remained at the same level since. However, that is overall. American's traffic has actually been declining since 2012.

RITA | BTS | Transtats

Based on people I'm talking to who are very well connected with in American, SWO probably needs to hit $3.5 to 4 million to make it happen since it is an unproven market. There is going to be a significant concern by American that it is going to be competing against itself at TUL and OKC.

It is somewhat like why Youngstown was told off by United after offering them $2-3 million to start service last year. United is perfectly happy serving Youngstown through Cleveland and has no desire to add them even with the money. I just don't see Vance AFB & Enid offering a similar draw that Fort Riley does to Manhattan...or Fort Sill does for Lawton for that matter.

[gopokes88]

How is WRWA doing so far this year?

[NWOKCGuy]

Not OKC specific but I thought this was an interesting read on airport codes.

Why New Orleans' airport is MSY ? and other airport code mysteries, explained - Vox

[pure]

Due to last night's storms, Lawton actually got a diverted flight from OKC and it was the Notre Dame women's basketball team for the NCAA tournament! Love the flight path on this, talk about avoiding the storm.

They even posted pics from the Lawton airport on their twitter. https://twitter.com/ndwbb

[no1cub17]

LCC management's grand plans to re-bank DFW and ORD go into effect tomorrow - so OKC now has a 5:10 AM (!) flight to DFW. Anyone have the courage to take it? WAAAY too early for me!

[Snowman]

LCC management's grand plans to re-bank DFW and ORD go into effect tomorrow - so OKC now has a 5:10 AM (!) flight to DFW. Anyone have the courage to take it? WAAAY too early for me!

I did not even realize the airport was open at 5:00 AM, let alone early enough to check in for that, I guess it is open 24/7 then.

[catch22]

The airport is open 24/7.

The concourse is open per the flight schedule. (Usually closes at 1am and reopens at 4am)

United used to have a 5:10am to IAH... 2012 I believe. Was always full. TSA and concourse opened at 4am

(Concourse and TSA open at 4am currently). East checkpoint opens at 4:30am. West at 4.

[AP]

I took the 5:10 flight this morning, and yes, it was way too early.