Fedora

[BDP]

I don't care what people do with their own health frankly, it is their choice. HOwever I would like to be able to go to bars and not be covered in smoke. The increase in non-smoking bars in okc is nice however there are still far fewer than there are bars who allow smoking. FOr a cigar bar that is their Niche. Its to enjoy a nice cigar and a cocktail so I am ok with them having an exemption to do so. then you are talking about a handful of bars that you can avoid if you don't want to go to a smoke filled bar.

But if a bar allows smoking, then you just don't go there, too, right? Same difference. Smoking is smoking. I guess if maybe everywhere that allowed smoking called themselves a Cigarette Bar people would be okay with it?

Honestly, I don't care either way and I am fine with smoking bans, but there really is no logical reason why cigars should get an exception, except snobbery. If smoking bans are health motivated, cigars should get no exception. Personally, I think there should be certain restrictions and designations if you want to allow smoking in order to help customers make educated decisions and to mitigate health risks in establishments where it is allowed, but I don't see how it makes any objective sense to legislate in what format the tobacco can be smoked.

[trousers]

^^^
BDP, this was pretty much my point. If its health related then why isn't it across the board? If its just preference...well, I have a hard time saying a person or business can't do something just because I don't like it.

[Pete]

^^^
BDP, this was pretty much my point. If its health related then why isn't it across the board? If its just preference...well, I have a hard time saying a person or business can't do something just because I don't like it.

This is why there are usually not exceptions for cigar bars where there are smoking bans.

The main basis of smoking bans is that they impact places of employment. They don't use the patrons argument.

It's the same issue in any workplace.

[metro]

Just curious as to why cigar bars get a pass from the anti-smoking crowd.
Do cigar smokers not get lung cancer or the employees of these bars not get exposed to second hand smoke?

This from a former pack and half day smoker that frequents smoking and nonsmoking bars.

Your use of the word "anti-smokers" already implies your bias to one side of the argument. People may not be "anti" something as much as they are "pro" something else you might not agree with. Maybe the other half of the argument are "pro choice" so to speak, and for establishments that serve a majority of sales on food, where anyone should be able to patronize without having to breathe cancerous smoke, like the WSKY guy said, it typically results in a win-win from non-smokers and smokers accept it and smoke outside. I don't think it's rocket science that an establishment that has the bulk of it's sales and it's concept as STRICTLY cigars is an issue, I think the food sales make it an issue. It's obvious that if it's strictly a cigar lounge or cigar with some alcohol. Someone is going there for the intentional purpose to smoke cigars, or enjoy the smoke.....LOL.

[metro]

But if a bar allows smoking, then you just don't go there, too, right? Same difference. Smoking is smoking. I guess if maybe everywhere that allowed smoking called themselves a Cigarette Bar people would be okay with it?

Honestly, I don't care either way and I am fine with smoking bans, but there really is no logical reason why cigars should get an exception, except snobbery. If smoking bans are health motivated, cigars should get no exception. Personally, I think there should be certain restrictions and designations if you want to allow smoking in order to help customers make educated decisions and to mitigate health risks in establishments where it is allowed, but I don't see how it makes any objective sense to legislate in what format the tobacco can be smoked.

Wouldn't the logical reason be that the "regular bars" don't sell cigarettes and that's not their primary form of revenue? Cigar bars typically sell cigars and is all or a good chunk of their revenue, so the argument is easily made that patrons are going there strictly for a sole purpose, versus regular bars people are going to drink or hook up or both?

[PhiAlpha]

This is why there are usually not exceptions for cigar bars where there are smoking bans.

The main basis of smoking bans is that they impact places of employment. They don't use the patrons argument.

It's the same issue in any workplace.

this is why that despite being annoyed about this law shelving Fedora for now, I have trouble arguing against the ban and its lack of exception for certain types of tobacco.

[Jeepnokc]

this is why that despite being annoyed about this law shelving Fedora for now, I have trouble arguing against the ban and its lack of exception for certain types of tobacco.

But the same patron argument works. There have been multiple references in threads about how hard it is to find good service help. Thus, there appears to be a demand for servers. No one will force people to work in a cigar bar if they do not want to work around smoke.

Also, I almost think that it would be a prereq that you smoke cigars to work I a cigar bar so you can discuss cigars and make recs. Wouldn't want a person recommending wine who doesn't drink