Oklahoma City, In the Press

[AP]

I found this quote pretty interesting, "Unlike U.S. metro areas that rely on a single industry to support their overall business sectors, Oklahoma City features a relatively diverse economy that benefits from both public and private investment. "

[adaniel]

^
I agree with that. OKC is far more diversified than people give it credit for.

Cuts in the oil and gas industry have now been occurring in earnest for about 3 months now, and yet the most recent UE figure declined for this area (although it ticked up in several rural counties that are more dependent on O&G) and sales tax collections are growing. That's certainly not to suggest that it won't eventually have an effect, but if OKC was going to fall apart, wouldn't it have started by now?

[bchris02]

^
I agree with that. OKC is far more diversified than people give it credit for.

Cuts in the oil and gas industry have now been occurring in earnest for about 3 months now, and yet the most recent UE figure declined for this area (although it ticked up in several rural counties that are more dependent on O&G) and sales tax collections are growing. That's certainly not to suggest that it won't eventually have an effect, but if OKC was going to fall apart, wouldn't it have started by now?

I would venture to guess OKC is going to see a pronounced slowdown if oil is still under $50 by the end of 2015. Ideally it needs to increase to $70. However, I don't think it would be a worst-case scenario as long as there isn't a financial crisis that coincides with the oil glut like there was in 1987. This town is more diverse than people give it credit for but oil and gas has been the primary driver of much of the growth and quality of life improvements seen over the past 5 years.

[gopokes88]

I think a lot of people underestimate the stable, massive base of decent wage jobs Tinker supplies, and to a lesser extent OU. The state government also has a ton of employees.

The positive to high government is the stability base it provides. Those jobs aren't going to vanish because of a bad year, cuts may happen but they aren't severe compared to what a company can go through. Plus remember the government can always just raise revenue if the pain is bad enough*. The downside is wages don't grow as fast and the government doesn't ever grow by more the 5-10%. Having a nice mix of fast growing high paying but quick contracting private sector jobs with stable but slow growing government jobs can diversify an economy quite nicely.

Cities like Phoenix and Vegas are so heavy in private sector that a recession hits them much much harder.
Cities like Albuquerque that are very government based don't get as hurt by a recession, but their economies struggle to grow if the government doesn't up their funding.

**As we are seeing this year in the state government, a lot of people are paying attention to the ridiculous social legislation, but behind the scenes a ton of corporate hand outs/tax breaks are fixing to vanish. I would say this is all planned but that would be giving them too much credit and Frank Underwood isn't around.

[betts]

Article a few weeks ago from the Arizona Republic on how Phoenix can diversify its economy. References OKC as an example:

Phoenix area, falling behind its peers, looks for new types of jobs

On a related note, OKC now has a higher per capita personal income than Phoenix, Austin, and Salt Lake City (with the caveat that per capita income is not always the best measurement of actual money in pockets)

Actually, I've done the math and because of our low housing costs, which lead to low property and insurance rates, we have more disposable income than a large number of cities. Now, we don't have as many people as a lot of cities, so collectively that extra income might not mean as much.

I haven't been to Phoenix in about 5 years but the last time I went I made the mistake of staying downtown because I thought it would be more fun, and it was not. Downtown was absolutely dead after 5.

[bchris02]

Actually, I've done the math and because of our low housing costs, which lead to low property and insurance rates, we have more disposable income than a large number of cities. Now, we don't have as many people as a lot of cities, so collectively that extra income might not mean as much.

I haven't been to Phoenix in about 5 years but the last time I went I made the mistake of staying downtown because I thought it would be more fun, and it was not. Downtown was absolutely dead after 5.

OKC's low cost of living really only applies if you are a homeowner from my experience. If you rent, it can actually be more expensive here than cities with supposedly higher cost of living. Car insurance is also several times more expensive here than it is in a lot of states, likely due to the number of uninsured motorists as well as severe weather.

As for Phoenix, it's like OKC's big city cousin in many ways (in terms of the way it developed, not culture). For decades all the emphasis was on suburbia and building out and downtown was neglected. Like OKC, downtown Phoenix has far more than its share of surface parking and empty lots. Like most cities in recent years they have begun building more housing downtown filling in some of the surface parking and they are beginning to see a transformation. They are already ahead of OKC in a number of ways in that they have a streetcar, convention center, more museums, etc. That should be expected though for a metro that is triple the size.

[Bellaboo]

OKC's low cost of living really only applies if you are a homeowner from my experience. If you rent, it can actually be more expensive here than cities with supposedly higher cost of living. Car insurance is also several times more expensive here than it is in a lot of states, likely due to the number of uninsured motorists as well as severe weather.

As for Phoenix, it's like OKC's big city cousin in many ways (in terms of the way it developed, not culture). For decades all the emphasis was on suburbia and building out and downtown was neglected. Like OKC, downtown Phoenix has far more than its share of surface parking and empty lots. Like most cities in recent years they have begun building more housing downtown filling in some of the surface parking and they are beginning to see a transformation. They are already ahead of OKC in a number of ways in that they have a streetcar, convention center, more museums, etc. That should be expected though for a metro that is triple the size.

My son lives in Chandler but briefly lived in a high rise luxury condo just North of downtown. When we visited we drove all over the fringe areas of downtown and it is some of the most run down dangerous sketchy place I've ever been in. The area is real close to the re-known Matt's Big Breakfast. My son said people don't go down there after dark. Absolutely no comparison to OKC.

[bchris02]

My son lives in Chandler but briefly lived in a high rise luxury condo just North of downtown. When we visited we drove all over the fringe areas of downtown and it is some of the most run down dangerous sketchy place I've ever been in. The area is real close to the re-known Matt's Big Breakfast. My son said people don't go down there after dark. Absolutely no comparison to OKC.

I am familiar with that area and its really not all that different from the current state of Core2Shore or how Midtown was pre-renaissance. Mid-rise residential developments similar to the Edge, LIFT, and Metropolitan are slowly starting to fill in that area. It would say its VERY comparable to OKC.

[Bellaboo]

I am familiar with that area and its really not all that different from the current state of Core2Shore or how Midtown was pre-renaissance. Mid-rise residential developments similar to the Edge, LIFT, and Metropolitan are slowly starting to fill in that area. It would say its VERY comparable to OKC.

You are wrong - I just checked city-data, and if their info is correct, per 100,000 residents, Phoenix is almost double the crime stats as OKC. We're talking murders, rapes, thefts, etc all the way down to arson. My son says his car insurance rates doubled due to the high vehicle theft rate in PHX.

[bchris02]

You are wrong - I just checked city-data, and if their info is correct, per 100,000 residents, Phoenix is almost double the crime stats as OKC. We're talking murders, rapes, thefts, etc all the way down to arson. My son says his car insurance rates doubled due to the high vehicle theft rate in PHX.

Well if you are talking only crime stats then yes, Phoenix has a higher crime rate.

In terms of development patterns OKC and Phoenix are very similar. Everything from the street layout to the parking craters and open land surrounding downtown to the suburban sprawl and patchwork development is similar. If OKC was four times its current size it would probably look a lot like Phoenix.

One thing I will say is despite being four times the size, Phoenix's downtown is only 10 years or so ahead of OKC if that.

[adaniel]

Have you even been to Phoenix?

I'm not trying to rag on it, but Phoenix's downtown is quite desolate. I was there for the Fiesta Bowl when OU played UConn and also made the mistake of staying downtown. It was a ghost town, more sleepy than anything in OKC, with a lot of rough, shady looking people shuffling about. Although in their defense, the area just north of DT (Encanto I think was the name) is a really nice Paseo-like area. And Old Town Scottsdale and the Biltmore/Camelback area was neat as well. But there is a reason their main paper profiled OKC, using our DT as an example.

OKC's low cost of living really only applies if you are a homeowner from my experience. If you rent, it can actually be more expensive here than cities with supposedly higher cost of living. Car insurance is also several times more expensive here than it is in a lot of states, likely due to the number of uninsured motorists as well as severe weather.

Another head scratcher. You're on fire today LOL.

Why dismiss low housing costs here when housing is by far the largest expense for most? It absolutely makes a difference. Rents in OKC are only really high in the core, and thats a simple supply/demand issue. On a square footage basis, I am paying about 30% more for my apartment in Dallas than in a similar area in OKC (the Memorial Rd area). I'm interested to know what "high cost" cities you believe have cheaper rents. Insurance and utilities are the two things that are higher than average. Food and gas are much cheaper however. Everything else is either a wash or slightly lower than average.

[Plutonic Panda]

I've been street viewing Pheonix for the last few days and it looks like an awesome city. The city also seems much more active and much more scenic. I did notice, OKCs downtown is ahead by light years.

[okatty]

I've been street viewing Pheonix for the last few days and it looks like an awesome city. The city also seems much more active and much more scenic. I did notice, OKCs downtown is ahead by light years.

Oct thru April its a great place to be! But downtown is nothing to write home about. Much prefer going to Old Scottsdale area or head over to Biltmore area of Phoenix. Great places to grab a beer and sit on the patio. Zuzu at Hotel Valley Ho is worth a visit for a drink or meal. Fun place.

[Bellaboo]

Old downtown Chandler square is a pretty nice place too. It's worth the visit if you're in the area.

[bchris02]

Have you even been to Phoenix?

I'm not trying to rag on it, but Phoenix's downtown is quite desolate. I was there for the Fiesta Bowl when OU played UConn and also made the mistake of staying downtown. It was a ghost town, more sleepy than anything in OKC, with a lot of rough, shady looking people shuffling about. Although in their defense, the area just north of DT (Encanto I think was the name) is a really nice Paseo-like area. And Old Town Scottsdale and the Biltmore/Camelback area was neat as well. But there is a reason their main paper profiled OKC, using our DT as an example.

I have family in Phoenix and used to go there annually. Phoenix doesn't really have anything like Bricktown. However, they have a streetcar and convention center already in place. I would say for the most part OKC feels more urban at least right in the core. Phoenix has a lot of suburban style housing right outside of downtown and lacks something like Deep Deuce. In terms of their CBD, it reminds me quite a bit of OKC.

The entire neighborhood north of downtown but south of I-10 really reminds me of Midtown. In fact its nearly identical. That area is a formerly blighted area that is now seeing significant development of low-rise residential buildings but still has plenty of blight and grassy lots.

Phoenix's strength is its suburban areas. I'll have to check out Chandler next time I am there. My family is in Glendale/Peoria so I haven't spent much time on the east side of the valley.

Why dismiss low housing costs here when housing is by far the largest expense for most? It absolutely makes a difference. Rents in OKC are only really high in the core, and thats a simple supply/demand issue. On a square footage basis, I am paying about 30% more for my apartment in Dallas than in a similar area in OKC (the Memorial Rd area). I'm interested to know what "high cost" cities you believe have cheaper rents. Insurance and utilities are the two things that are higher than average. Food and gas are much cheaper however. Everything else is either a wash or slightly lower than average.

I am not dismissing low housing costs. OKC is attracting a lot of young people who want to be homeowners at an early age but may not be able to afford it in other cities. You can get a nice, newer place in Edmond for the same cost as a fixer upper in a marginal neighborhood in Charlotte. All I am saying is to really take advantage of the cost of living here, you really need to be a homeowner. If you rent like I do, you really aren't saving all that much and in fact may be paying more. If I knew I was going to be in OKC for several more years I would buy a house. I would be a fool not to in this market. However, I still may be relocating so I will continue to rent for now.

[Plutonic Panda]

Oct thru April its a great place to be! But downtown is nothing to write home about. Much prefer going to Old Scottsdale area or head over to Biltmore area of Phoenix. Great places to grab a beer and sit on the patio. Zuzu at Hotel Valley Ho is worth a visit for a drink or meal. Fun place.

from what I see, Pheonix looks like it might become one of my favorite cities. Scottsdale was absolutely incredible and Sedona looks like something straight out of a movie. It is mind numbing to me because I've loved on flat plains all my life(Dallas and OKC) that places like hat exists and people live their daily lives there.

Tbh, I think I might end up liking Pheonix more than Dallas. Pheonix and the surrounding area is one a whole nother level than OKC is and I don't think OKC will ever come close to offering what Pheonix does regardless of the CBD. I am super excited to visit there in April.

[gopokes88]

from what I see, Pheonix looks like it might become one of my favorite cities. Scottsdale was absolutely incredible and Sedona looks like something straight out of a movie. It is mind numbing to me because I've loved on flat plains all my life(Dallas and OKC) that places like hat exists and people live their daily lives there.

Tbh, I think I might end up liking Pheonix more than Dallas. Pheonix and the surrounding area is one a whole nother level than OKC is and I don't think OKC will ever come close to offering what Pheonix does regardless of the CBD. I am super excited to visit there in April.

Ever met anyone from Phoenix?

[Plutonic Panda]

No

[bchris02]

Tbh, I think I might end up liking Pheonix more than Dallas. Pheonix and the surrounding area is one a whole nother level than OKC is and I don't think OKC will ever come close to offering what Pheonix does regardless of the CBD. I am super excited to visit there in April.

In terms of Phoenix vs Dallas, each has their advantages and disadvantages but overall I would say Dallas is nicer. Phoenix is a great smaller, lower-cost alternative to Los Angeles however. I could easily see myself living there. Tying this back to OKC, I think this city could easily be to DFW what Phoenix is to Los Angeles.

[Plutonic Panda]

I don't think we need to settle for being Dallas's bitch. OKC can become a destination city similar to Branson and become something else similar to Austin.

[jerrywall]

Speaking of Phoenix...

Watch Vine Highlights From Today's Incredibly Thrilling Llama Chase

[bradh]

Phoenix is unique because you have Tempe and ASU that is very close to downtown, and then Scottsdale right near as well. My wife is an ASU alum and lived in Scottsdale post grad, and I lived out there a couple years myself (first in SW Chandler, then in west Gilbert). The "burbs" there are full blown cities with populations well into the six digits (Scottsdale is almost 1/4 million itself). Downtown PHX is somewhere you don't go unless you are going to watch the Suns or D-Backs. Tempe and Mill Ave capture a lot of folks, and then Old Town Scottsdale is another people grabber. I love visiting out there, but I'd never raise a family there. Arizona is a beautiful state with so much varying landscape it's incredible. Some parts of far eastern AZ resemble the rolling green hills of Ireland. Sedona is amazing (but shouldn't be lumped together as a plus for Phoenix, it's a good hike away).

[Plutonic Panda]

Serious question here: I've heard there is an above average number of mature women who seek out younger men to date in Scottsdale; is that true? I've heard this from about three different people, so that intrigues me.

[bradh]

Serious question here: I've heard there is an above average number of mature women who seek out younger men to date in Scottsdale; is that true? I've heard this from about three different people, so that intrigues me.

baggage...

[windowphobe]

The cost-of-living advantage for homeowners is at least somewhat offset by the cost of insurance on those homes, what with our wild, wondrous weather.