Development that will make Dallas and KC Jealous?

[OSUFan]

If 23rd and May scares you than most places outside of Edmond/Nichols Hills in OKC are going to scare you. Maybe it is because I lived in the area but I'm not so sure I wouldn't be more concerned for my safety in Bricktown than Taft Stadium.

[traxx]

Great work d-usa. That is the one thing that has been mentioned that does work for all the hints that have been put out there. Just about every other guess has either contradicted one or more of Steve's hints or has been totally absurd. It is also within scope.

This also contradicts one of Steve's hints. The main hint. That it would make Dallas and KC jealous. I really don't think a soccer stadium is going to make either metro jealous. I mean, Dallas has a $1 billion football stadium. How is a 7K seat minor league soccer stadium supposed to make them jealous?

Steve said that some people were getting their hopes far too high about this project.

Probably because he made the statement that it'd make Dallas and KC jealous. You can't make a statement like that and expect people to take it lightly.

[OkiePoke]

This also contradicts one of Steve's hints. The main hint. That it would make Dallas and KC jealous. I really don't think a soccer stadium is going to make either metro jealous. I mean, Dallas has a $1 billion football stadium. How is a 7K seat minor league soccer stadium supposed to make them jealous?




Probably because he made the statement that it'd make Dallas and KC jealous. You can't make a statement like that and expect people to take it lightly.

Dallas doesn't have a 1 billion dollar stadium. Arlington does. About a 30 minute drive from Dallas. I believe the point the poster was making was neither KC or Dallas has a stadium in downtown. Would this make some people jealous that though wouldn't have to drive 30 minutes to a stadium? Yes. The entire city? No.

[ShadowStrings]

Maybe we are taking the word "jealous" too seriously. Some words have stronger connotations than others, and I know Steve chooses his words carefully, but isn't it possible that Steve didn't intend to give as much weight to that word as many on here are inferring? Clearly, most people in Dallas and Kansas City wouldn't be jealous of this soccer stadium, but a downtown soccer stadium is something that many people in these cities would rather have than a stadium out in the burbs. They may not be jealous of our stadium, but jealous of the idea of their soccer stadium being in a better location.

If you forget everything about you have already heard about this rumor, and you were told that we were building a new soccer stadium in Bricktown, might you have had the thought that, "Hey, that's cool. Not even Dallas or Kansas City has their MLS stadiums downtown."? Maybe "jealous" is too strong of a word to describe that thought, but that could be the extent of the jealousy Steve referred to.

I think we are looking too hard for some crazy insane unrealistic idea that nobody could possibly imagine. I would be thrilled if there was actually something so great in the works that everyone in Dallas and KC would be jealous, but I don't see that happening. I have no idea if the soccer stadium is the rumored project, but it is the most realistic idea I have heard so far. If we take our expectations down a notch, I think this idea satisfies all the supporting comments made about this project up to this point, as was outlined earlier. People shouldn't be so quick to write off this idea solely because it wouldn't make the entire populations of Dallas and Kansas City jealous.

[Stickman]

Maybe we are taking the word "jealous" too seriously. Some words have stronger connotations than others, and I know Steve chooses his words carefully, but isn't it possible that Steve didn't intend to give as much weight to that word as many on here are inferring? Clearly, most people in Dallas and Kansas City wouldn't be jealous of this soccer stadium, but a downtown soccer stadium is something that many people in these cities would rather have than a stadium out in the burbs. They may not be jealous of our stadium, but jealous of the idea of their soccer stadium being in a better location.

If you forget everything about you have already heard about this rumor, and you were told that we were building a new soccer stadium in Bricktown, might you have had the thought that, "Hey, that's cool. Not even Dallas or Kansas City has their MLS stadiums downtown."? Maybe "jealous" is too strong of a word to describe that thought, but that could be the extent of the jealousy Steve referred to.

I think we are looking too hard for some crazy insane unrealistic idea that nobody could possibly imagine. I would be thrilled if there was actually something so great in the works that everyone in Dallas and KC would be jealous, but I don't see that happening. I have no idea if the soccer stadium is the rumored project, but it is the most realistic idea I have heard so far. If we take our expectations down a notch, I think this idea satisfies all the supporting comments made about this project up to this point, as was outlined earlier. People shouldn't be so quick to write off this idea solely because it wouldn't make the entire populations of Dallas and Kansas City jealous.

KANSAS CITY, Mo.: Kansas City still must subsidize entertainment district | Business | NewsObserver.com
Maybe talking about our many entertainment districts downtown, or close by. Also how Maps has made everything debt free. This is just a guess of course.

[Plutonic Panda]

Dallas doesn't have a 1 billion dollar stadium. Arlington does. About a 30 minute drive from Dallas. I believe the point the poster was making was neither KC or Dallas has a stadium in downtown. Would this make some people jealous that though wouldn't have to drive 30 minutes to a stadium? Yes. The entire city? No.

its still part of th city. When I think of city, I think of the metro area. I doubt Steve was just referring to OKC proper. If Edmond got what it was he was hinting at, why would a location downtown make the other cities jealous when we already have it in the metro?

[adaniel]

Maybe we are taking the word "jealous" too seriously. Some words have stronger connotations than others, and I know Steve chooses his words carefully, but isn't it possible that Steve didn't intend to give as much weight to that word as many on here are inferring?

Its both possible and likely. Although in defense to Steve, it was a simple expression and only on this board (and just a few posters at that) did it blow it up into this ridiculous standard. It was so idiotic...I've held my tongue as people has parsed out possible scenarios..."Will this or that make Dallas jealous" as if an entire city will somehow care what OKC does. How old are we again, people? I'm sure Steve ever regrets saying that.

But now that I've gotten that off my chest, this soccer stadium deal has legs and I would be pumped if it happened. Going back (but only for a second) to Dallas, it was a big catch for Frisco to land then-Pizza Hut Park. FC Dallas was still Dallas Burn and played at the Cotton Bowl. Dallas in the early 2000s was noncommittal to any repairs to the Cotton Bowl and the Burn at one point played in a HS stadium. Frisco gave them a good deal and they bailed. The problem is the Frisco site is LAME with a lot of nothing around and its very inaccessible to the majority of the DFW metro area. I know FC Dallas had issues in the past with attendance, and even now with a much better club, it still is on the low end of Premiere League attendance.

So yes, a a DT soccer stadium is a very big deal. I'm not a big soccer fan, but the stadium could easily be used for other purposes like concerts (Toyota Stadium hosts EdgeFest every year) and can host FB games as well. There's a big need for open fields in a more intimate setting, unlike Owen Field or Boone Pickens. And OKC can do it while spending half the cost of even a scaled down FB stadium.

Which brings me to my next point. What funding channels would be used? I know OKC is still a few years off from a bond election and its becoming a foregone conclusion that MAPS4 will be transit oriented.

[hoya]

Why? That is a nice area of town. Some people need to get out more and stop cocooning themselves in their homes like frightened turtles.

It's a hell of a lot nicer than my neighborhood.

[d-usa]

. Which brings me to my next point. What funding channels would be used? I know OKC is still a few years off from a bond election and its becoming a foregone conclusion that MAPS4 will be transit oriented.

That's why I think the drop in oil prices made things complicated. Without MAPS of a city partnership I think an energy sponsorship of the stadium would be most likely.

As far as the jealous thing goes I do think that "jealous" may be too strong of a word, but "that would be nice to have" could still be something that folks in KC or Dallas might be thinking if the secret project was a soccer stadium.

It wouldn't even just be the fact that the stadium is downtown, it would be everything else as well. You couldn't just watch a soccer game downtown, you are a 5 minute walk from the Peake and you pass a baseball stadium on the way! The whole family could come to Bricktown and the daughters could go to a concert at the arena whole Billie watches the soccer game with mom and dad watches the Dodgers. Imagine a downtown music festival with open air concerts at both the ballpark and the stadium!

Lots of wishful thinking there, but a 7,000 seat stadium downtown would be so much more when you take the whole Brocktown package into consideration.

[Stickman]

Seven thousand won't do it. It would be a waste of time and money for anything less than 17k seats. With the demographics changing at an unprecedented rate professional soccer is inevitable. Would have to be included in the next Maps vote. Lots of places downtown like between Western and Exchange just N. of I-40. Can anybody else think of other places.......like the new park?

BTW : I'm not a fan of soccer but I can read the handwriting on the wall.

[Urbanized]

The development Steve was referring to was not a soccer stadium.

[Stickman]

Oh I know. Just responding to a couple of entries. Sorry for straying from topic.

[Bellaboo]

The development Steve was referring to was not a soccer stadium.

Are you sure about this ?

[traxx]

Dallas doesn't have a 1 billion dollar stadium. Arlington does. About a 30 minute drive from Dallas. I believe the point the poster was making was neither KC or Dallas has a stadium in downtown. Would this make some people jealous that though wouldn't have to drive 30 minutes to a stadium? Yes. The entire city? No.

Notice I said metro. I didn't say Dallas city proper. Arlington is a part of the Dallas metro. You're splitting hairs.

As for the thought that maybe Steve didn't mean for the word jealous to have as much emphasis or that he regrets saying it, he's a writer. There's no excuse. When you write for a living you pick your words on purpose to clearly communicate a message and a meaning. It's not like he called someone ugly in the heat of an argument and later regretted it. It's that he, a professional writer, chose these exact words to convey what he was saying. If he didn't truly mean it, then he should've never written it. Everything else is just making an excuse for a professional writer who should know the meanings, conotations, and impact of words.

[soondoc]

I would be all for this DT soccer stadium with the following conditions. It must be built to eventually land and MLS team which is not at all unreasonable. OKC is a good soccer city and so is Tulsa. It must be built with a minimum MLS standard capacity, which I would assume to be around 20,000 people. It needs to be large enough host outside concerts and venues. This really could be an amazing thing for DT but it can't be done on the cheap or scaled down to 7,000 people or it is just a waste of time.

[d-usa]

If the planning is done right they do have the option to build a USL level stadium that can be expanded to an MLS stadium down the road. There is really no reason to build a 7,000 seat stadium now only to turn around and then build a 20,000 seat stadium in a decade. That is similar to the approach the San Antonio team is taking with Toyota Field:



Better picture: http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-tQNYaI5qi5...onsStadium.png

And it's actually not an idea that would be new for a city that has a history of building something for what we have, but building it in a way so that it can be expanded later if we get what we want and expansion could be funded by MAPS X - The Mappening. *looks over at the Peake*

The only real question for expanding a 7,000 stadium in that location would be the room though, so that casts some doubt.

[soondoc]

I mean this with no disrespect but a 7,000 seat stadium is worthless. The above picture is not impressive in the least. We have high school football stadiums in this state with bigger capacities. Believe me, OKC is a worthy MLS city and they will most likely expand soon. If we have this new stadium that impresses them, I think we will be in serious contention to land a team. If they expand and we say, "we can add on to our stadium", that is not the same thing. Tulsa once supported an NASL team that is the equivilent if not better than the current MLS and did "extremely well". That leauge oozed with all stars coming over to play and I spent many nights watching them play as a child as we had season tickets. Oklahoma really supports soccer better than most actually realize. OKC would have a MUCH easier path to land an MLS team than they did getting an NBA team. Do you think they won't be looking at how the city supports the Thunder and see the potential in this market. It's a sports crazed town and hungry for more. Please do not cheap out and scale this down to a size that small and if you do, please do it in the suburbs instead of DT.

[Laramie]

I mean this with no disrespect but a 7,000 seat stadium is worthless. The above picture is not impressive in the least. We have high school football stadiums in this state with bigger capacities. Believe me, OKC is a worthy MLS city and they will most likely expand soon. If we have this new stadium that impresses them, I think we will be in serious contention to land a team. If they expand and we say, "we can add on to our stadium", that is not the same thing. Tulsa once supported an NASL team that is the equivilent if not better than the current MLS and did "extremely well". That leauge oozed with all stars coming over to play and I spent many nights watching them play as a child as we had season tickets. Oklahoma really supports soccer better than most actually realize. OKC would have a MUCH easier path to land an MLS team than they did getting an NBA team. Do you think they won't be looking at how the city supports the Thunder and see the potential in this market. It's a sports crazed town and hungry for more. Please do not cheap out and scale this down to a size that small and if you do, please do it in the suburbs instead of DT.

MLS is looking for cities with name-recognition, they want to expand their footprint--OKC's geographic location is ideal. The Thunder has brought OKC to that level. OKC Energy should partner with the city; build a 20,000 seat stadium downtown for MAPS 4 (2017). It could be used for other events like the OSSAA 6A high school football playoffs and outdoor concerts.

[d-usa]

Some better pictures of what Toyota Field would look like if they go through with the planned 10,000 seat expansion to go from this:



To this:







If Prodigal would offer to put build a 7,000 seat stadium that could be expanded like what San Antonio is doing, I wouldn't say no to that. But I do have doubts that there would be room for an expansion in that exact spot.

I just don't know if there is enough support for public funding for a MLS size soccer stadium at this point in this city, but maybe I'm just not giving us enough credit there. But if Prodigal and others think that the city is ready for a 20,000 seat stadium and want to skip the middle step and go full throttle towards a full stadium then I will indeed be pleasantly surprised. It could be a great center piece for Lower Bricktown maybe.

In the end I'm just a soccer fan that would be happy to have a wonderful stadium of any size to watch the game!

[Laramie]

We need to do something because stadium construction is expensive as the years move on. It would cost a lost less to get a basic 20,000 seat structure built then add the bell & whistles later.

[josh]

If the planning is done right they do have the option to build a USL level stadium that can be expanded to an MLS stadium down the road. There is really no reason to build a 7,000 seat stadium now only to turn around and then build a 20,000 seat stadium in a decade. That is similar to the approach the San Antonio team is taking with Toyota Field:



Better picture: http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-tQNYaI5qi5...onsStadium.png

And it's actually not an idea that would be new for a city that has a history of building something for what we have, but building it in a way so that it can be expanded later if we get what we want and expansion could be funded by MAPS X - The Mappening. *looks over at the Peake*

The only real question for expanding a 7,000 stadium in that location would be the room though, so that casts some doubt.

Those are actually old renderings of the planned expansion at TF.

The plans were revised as the Scorpions attempt to join the MLS.

These are the new.renderings for the future Toyota Field.

[blangtang]

When is Steve going to spill the beans?

I may have missed the timing, but I've only read the last 3 pages of this thread.

[Urbanized]

There is no timeline. He said he would identify it when the project is official, or reveal what it was to be if the project dies. He said there are some market and other complexities that might be putting it at risk, but that for the time being it is still a possibility.

And yes, I am certain that it is not a soccer stadium.

[Snowman]

If you have to advertise your fans to Belive! that hard, it seems like the team must be in bad shape.

Those are actually old renderings of the planned expansion at TF.

The plans were revised as the Scorpions attempt to join the MLS.

These are the new.renderings for the future Toyota Field.

[JAW]

The only thing that will make Dallas jealous would be a 925+ tall tower, which would surpass their Bank of America tower. If we built our own Space Needle/Gateway Arch-like tourist destination that was 1000 feet that may make Dallas jealous. Or Rand's Turbinomic Tower, even if "only" 600-700 feet or so tall. Maybe America's tallest statue (over 160 feet) or world's tallest statue (which would need to be 600 feet with the new Buddha China or India is building). A building lined with vertical gardening may be jawdropping as well.