Fracking and earthquakes

[PhiAlpha]

Thank you for the incredibly long post that answered a question no on asked about the composition of frac water - something that can easily be found within a 5 second search of a program called google.

In my industry we call it blinding people with bullsh*t.

Basically you change the subject and then ramble on until people hopefully go away; and seems to be a theme from people who are on a losing side of an arguement.

Outside of that the only real issue I have with your post is comparing the chemicals to household soaps, that's a stretch of the imagination that is easily disproven by a search on our states very own website. But with that said I also realize that in the grand scale of it all the overall percentage is very small compared to the 3 - 5 million of gallons of once drinkable surface or ground water that is lost per every single well. Water that hopefully will never reenter the water cycle and is now permanently lost.

Another thing you forgot to mention was where the flowback or produced water goes once it's injected for 'permanent' disposal, obviously it's finding once dormant faults by traveling miles away through porus rocks --- so is it permanently removed, or does anyone know where it ends up?

If not why have there been numerous cases around the country where people have found that same brine in their ground water after disposal wells came online?

Be specific and find sources because a few months ago you same self proclaimed industry experts (who were high fiving for the great info a few post up) were swearing that injection wells in our state had absolutely nothing to do with the earthquakes and we all see how that turned out.

You realize that it is possible to have a discussion with out being an ass, right? Would you talk like this to people in person?

[Bellaboo]

You realize that it is possible to have a discussion with out being an ass, right? Would you talk like this to people in person?

My guess he would not.

[ylouder]

I'm not sure where you are going with that - do you want to call me? - my suggestion is to stop threatening people when you are at work on company time. You never know who is watching.

[bradh]

I'll be at the next OKC Talk happy hour (hey Pete...hint hint), I find that when you meet people in person conversations tend to go a lot more civil (looking at you AP )

[Martin]

Thank you for the incredibly long post that answered a question no on asked about the composition of frac water - something that can easily be found within a 5 second search of a program called google.

I'm not sure where you are going with that ? - my suggestion is to stop threatening people when you are at work on company time. You never know who is watching.

please stop being a jerk to everybody. you are welcome to express your position on oil and gas operations but try to express that opinion like an adult. thanks.

now... if everybody could get back to topic, that would be great. -M

[AP]

looking at you AP

Are you referring to the Johnny Manziel thing? Turns out he really is a douche...

[bradh]

Are you referring to the Johnny Manziel thing? Turns out he really is a douche...

Seriously...but still a baller of a college QB

[PhiAlpha]

I'll be at the next OKC Talk happy hour (hey Pete...hint hint), I find that when you meet people in person conversations tend to go a lot more civil (looking at you AP )

Same here

[Pete]

We'll be doing an OKCTalk meet-up in mid April when I'm in town.

Details to follow.

[PhiAlpha]

I'm not sure where you are going with that - do you want to call me? - my suggestion is to stop threatening people when you are at work on company time. You never know who is watching.

What exactly about my post was threatening? Also, how about I worry about what I do with my time and you do the same for yourself, sound good?

You should come to the next OKCtalk get together.

[Plutonic Panda]

We'll be doing an OKCTalk meet-up in mid April when I'm in town.

Details to follow.

hopefully it will be in early April. I'm moving to LA April 10th

[Pete]

hopefully it will be in early April. I'm moving to LA April 10th

Sorry, will likely be Tuesday 4/21 or later that same week.

[Plutonic Panda]

Ah, well I'm going to leave April 10th, get my apartment, and come back with a friend and then rent a uHual and then drive back, so maybe I'll be here when it is going on. I hope so at least.

[kelroy55]

Ah, well I'm going to leave April 10th, get my apartment, and come back with a friend and then rent a uHual and then drive back, so maybe I'll be here when it is going on. I hope so at least.

That's a long drive in a UHaul. I went from Lincoln, Ne to Chattanooga and wanted to shoot myself.

[Plutonic Panda]

That's a long drive in a UHaul. I went from Lincoln, Ne to Chattanooga and wanted to shoot myself.

ha. I remember riding in a UHual from Dallas and it sucked. I have never driven a UHaul though.

[John1780]

I think the anti-fracking and anti-SWD well sentiments here are a function of a perceived helplessness in the fact of more frequent and stronger earthquake activity that does have consequences for homeowners in the state. When OK grabbed the top state spot with 550+ earthquakes of 3.0+ last year, people are looking for answers, and feel they aren’t getting any. Given that these quakes are causing harm to what is usually people’s most valuable investment—their house—they tend to grab the pitchforks and hit the streets.

Folks see the O&G industry’s authority in the state, and influence in the halls of power here, and, combined with what they perceive as the industry’s foot-dragging on the issue, have grown suspicious. Since state scientific and regulatory boards (OGS, OCC, OWRB, ect) have been slow to act as well (until recently), they also appear to be ‘in on it.’ Combine this with the fact that some of the state agencies get a good piece of their budget from the O&G business (particularly OGS), people are skeptical of industry-biased reports and research from them.

I think the O&G industry can do a better job in educating the general population in how and why fracking itself likely isn’t the culprit vice very high-rate injection of produced water. Some people, of course, will see any explanations from oil majors or service companies as line-towing PR bites, which is perhaps why more recent efforts haven’t been made on this front. The threat of litigation may also have in-house counsels watering down explanations as well.

I say this as a geologist, so I’m far from an industry hater. I can, however, see a bit of both sides here.

[PWitty]

I think the anti-fracking and anti-SWD well sentiments here are a function of a perceived helplessness in the fact of more frequent and stronger earthquake activity that does have consequences for homeowners in the state. When OK grabbed the top state spot with 550+ earthquakes of 3.0+ last year, people are looking for answers, and feel they aren’t getting any. Given that these quakes are causing harm to what is usually people’s most valuable investment—their house—they tend to grab the pitchforks and hit the streets.

Folks see the O&G industry’s authority in the state, and influence in the halls of power here, and, combined with what they perceive as the industry’s foot-dragging on the issue, have grown suspicious. Since state scientific and regulatory boards (OGS, OCC, OWRB, ect) have been slow to act as well (until recently), they also appear to be ‘in on it.’ Combine this with the fact that some of the state agencies get a good piece of their budget from the O&G business (particularly OGS), people are skeptical of industry-biased reports and research from them.

I think the O&G industry can do a better job in educating the general population in how and why fracking itself likely isn’t the culprit vice very high-rate injection of produced water. Some people, of course, will see any explanations from oil majors or service companies as line-towing PR bites, which is perhaps why more recent efforts haven’t been made on this front. The threat of litigation may also have in-house counsels watering down explanations as well.

I say this as a geologist, so I’m far from an industry hater. I can, however, see a bit of both sides here.

I agree with everything you said. Especially the part about anyone with ties to the industry being labeled as simply "towing the line" whenever they speak out on the issue. The reactions in this thread are evidence of that. I've always joked that the O&G industry is the one business (outside of Wall Street) where the general public has more distrust than trust in anything that people who work in the industry say in regards to our operations. In any other situation people will look to the ones who are educated/trained and/or work in the specified field when they have questions about something. If someone has a legal concern, they ask a lawyer. If they have a computer problem, they ask an IT expert. If they don't feel well, they go to the doctor. But if someone has a question about something in the O&G business the last person they want to seek out is a Petroleum Engineer/Geologist because they have ties to the industry and are biased. It's the craziest thing to me. I'm taking time out of my day to post on this forum anonymously. Nobody knows who I am or where I work. I'm not getting any brownie points from anyone for posting on here and sticking up for the industry. I could say whatever I want with no repercussions. There's no incentive to sit here and spend my time responding to a question with lies. However, more often than not any informed post someone makes is met with immediate negativity by someone who has no intention of considering any statements that don't line-up with what they already believed to be true in the first place. It's impossible to have any sort of civilized debate. I think that is the main reason that so many companies in the industry don't do a better job at maintaining any sort of educational or PR campaigns. They just figure, what's the point if everybody just brushes it off and doesn't believe it?

[silvergrove]

USGS released this article: Coping with Earthquakes Induced by Fluid Injection

USGS Release: Coping with Earthquakes Induced by Fluid Injection (2/19/2015 2:15:00 PM)

[bradh]

and what did local media do with that story? run to the public with headlines of "USGS says fracking causing earthquakes"

*sigh*

[Jim Kyle]

and what did local media do with that story? run to the public with headlines of "USGS says fracking causing earthquakes"

*sigh*

In fairness, I have to point out that this is a very strong and quite logical -- although false -- conclusion from the third paragraph of the USGS release. The "new technologies" they mention are almost certainly the improved hydraulic fracturing methods.

However, fracking itself most surely is NOT the cause, so the headline is NOT a true statement. Denizens of the oil patch have been fracking the formations for at least a hundred years, starting out by using nitroglycerine and later switching to high-pressure hydraulics which are far safer. As recently as 1955 I saw first-hand the result of a nitro frac effort that went wrong, shredding a crew of three men and creating a crater 50 feet in diameter.

I agree with the call for increased transparency, but not with the emotional public outcry to ban fracking itself. So long as we're committed to fossil fuels, it behovves us to increase domestic production of them to the greatest extent possible -- not to cripple them!

[gopokes88]

In fairness, I have to point out that this is a very strong and quite logical -- although false -- conclusion from the third paragraph of the USGS release. The "new technologies" they mention are almost certainly the improved hydraulic fracturing methods.

However, fracking itself most surely is NOT the cause, so the headline is NOT a true statement. Denizens of the oil patch have been fracking the formations for at least a hundred years, starting out by using nitroglycerine and later switching to high-pressure hydraulics which are far safer. As recently as 1955 I saw first-hand the result of a nitro frac effort that went wrong, shredding a crew of three men and creating a crater 50 feet in diameter.

I agree with the call for increased transparency, but not with the emotional public outcry to ban fracking itself. So long as we're committed to fossil fuels, it behovves us to increase domestic production of them to the greatest extent possible -- not to cripple them!

That's going to be the difficult part in all of this.

It's the same reason people are opposed to Keystone XL despite the fact it is better for the environment and safer because you know, pipelines don't crash like trains do.

[Jim Kyle]

That's going to be the difficult part in all of this.

It's the same reason people are opposed to Keystone XL despite the fact it is better for the environment and safer because you know, pipelines don't crash like trains do.

At the risk of going far off-topic here, I'd like to see the feds create a regulation prohibiting the transport of ALL petroleum products (both crude and refined) via public transportation lines -- railways and highways in particular -- while permitting pipelines. Even better would be a requirement that refined products NOT be transported across state lines by any means. Perhaps then we would all be safer, the highway network would be in better repair, and Californians would be between a rock and a hard place to retain their number one spot as gas/diesel consumers (although they'd probably have much cleaner air to breathe)...

[gopokes88]

At the risk of going far off-topic here, I'd like to see the feds create a regulation prohibiting the transport of ALL petroleum products (both crude and refined) via public transportation lines -- railways and highways in particular -- while permitting pipelines. Even better would be a requirement that refined products NOT be transported across state lines by any means. Perhaps then we would all be safer, the highway network would be in better repair, and Californians would be between a rock and a hard place to retain their number one spot as gas/diesel consumers (although they'd probably have much cleaner air to breathe)...

Warren Buffet owns a lot of the train companies who move the crude. Warren buffet is a huge obama supporter. Keystone xl would hurt buffets profits. Put those together.

[Jersey Boss]

Koch Pipeline Company Facts | Koch Pipeline Company
Koch Pipeline Company, L.P. (“KPL”) owns or operates about 4,000 miles of pipelines that transport crude oil, refined petroleum products, natural gas liquids, ethanol and chemicals.
KOCH is a big GOP supporter and Keystone will bolster Koch profits.
And this.
https://laelyn.wordpress.com/2012/01...oney-involved/

No wonder John Boehner is all over President Obama’s decision regarding the Keystone XL pipeline! He put money into the Canadian companies involved!


. . . according to Boehner’s financial disclosure forms, he invested $10,000 to $50,000 each in seven firms that had a stake in Canada’s oil sands, the region that produces the oil the pipeline would transport. The firms include six oil companies — BP, Canadian Natural Resources, Chevron, Conoco Phillips, Devon Energy and Exxon — along with Emerson Electric, which has a contract to provide the digital automation for the first phase of a $9.4 billion Horizon Oil Sands Project in Canada

Put these together as well when adding it all up.

[bradh]

I'm not really a student on what legislators are allowed to do, but is it against the rules to invest at all in companies as a politician?