OKC Boulevard

[Plutonic Panda]

You know the irony is that this picture is taken about 10AM with minimal traffic AND 2 of the flyovers are backed up.

Wrecks happen. There is construction in the picture. How do you it was 10am? Both of the flyovers are the ones going in the same direction which means that one highway is experiencing construction or there is a wreck.

[no1cub17]

What does the BLVD have to do with I-35? I don't know what fantasy world YOU are living on, but new highways are going to be built and existing ones are going to be widened. Get over it.

What doesn't the "BLVD" have to do with a widened I-35? Both are completely unnecessary. I-35 is crowded for what, 2 hours a day, tops? And most of that is because drivers here default to going 10 below in the left lane, which leads to bottlenecks in all 3 lanes as people try to weave in and out just to try to hit the speed limit, etc. I'm not living in a fantasy world - I realize full well that you freeway types are always going to get your way, especially in places like OKC. We still build around the car, and not the person, and I'm not in denial about that. I see the decisions that were made in the last few weeks about our CBD. So it couldn't be more clear how little OKC cares about actual humans versus gas-hogging cars. I realize full well that ODOT needs to keep their money coming in, and the only way to do that is to make completely absurd traffic projections that have little to no basis in reality, and use those false numbers to steal our taxpayer dollars for ugly roads that we don't really need. Not only that, but I'm also acutely aware that my very tax dollars are going to go toward paying for the maintenance of these unnecessary roads for years (decades) to come. Not only that, but I'm also aware that the model we currently use to build these expansive freeways is unsustainable, and so I'm fully aware that my generation and my kids' generation's indebtedness towards these projects is only going to rise exponentially. Isn't that just awesome?

[Plutonic Panda]

What doesn't the "BLVD" have to do with a widened I-35? Both are completely unnecessary. I-35 is crowded for what, 2 hours a day, tops? And most of that is because drivers here default to going 10 below in the left lane, which leads to bottlenecks in all 3 lanes as people try to weave in and out just to try to hit the speed limit, etc. I'm not living in a fantasy world - I realize full well that you freeway types are always going to get your way, especially in places like OKC. We still build around the car, and not the person, and I'm not in denial about that. I see the decisions that were made in the last few weeks about our CBD. So it couldn't be more clear how little OKC cares about actual humans versus gas-hogging cars. I realize full well that ODOT needs to keep their money coming in, and the only way to do that is to make completely absurd traffic projections that have little to no basis in reality, and use those false numbers to steal our taxpayer dollars for ugly roads that we don't really need. Not only that, but I'm also acutely aware that my very tax dollars are going to go toward paying for the maintenance of these unnecessary roads for years (decades) to come. Not only that, but I'm also aware that the model we currently use to build these expansive freeways is unsustainable, and so I'm fully aware that my generation and my kids' generation's indebtedness towards these projects is only going to rise exponentially. Isn't that just awesome?

"you freeway types" . . . that's hilarious. Have fun with your ramblings. I'm done acknowledging you.

[ljbab728]

This site disproportionately leans to the people more fond of the urban environment, and that's fine. But most Okie's like their suburbs and I don't see that trend just flying off the shelf in the other direction. Is it changing, yes, slowly.

But many of us, myself included like our space. I'm on a little over an acre, and can't imagine being on anything less. This is the most 'densely' I've ever lived. I don't understand wanting to live right on top of 17 other people. But for those of you that do, go for it, that leaves more land for the rest of us that want it.

I suspect that you may find that your ideas about this may evolve as you get older. I grew up on a farm outside of Norman and was always used to plenty of land surrounding me. Later in life I moved to Mustang and successively have lived on 3 acres and then one acre properties. At the time I loved it. I now live in OKC on much, much less and an very happy with it. I have had relatives who thought it would be wonderful to retire and move to 5 acre or larger lots. They did and as they aged they found it was quickly too much for them to even begin to take care of. Many people are now discovering this at a much younger age. You're correct that there will always be those wanting a lot of space but that percentage is certainly decreasing.

[jn1780]

Off topic, but I drove southbound from Edmond to Norman around 5 today and doesn't seem like the number of lanes and the interchange along I235 and I 35 is the actual problem. I235 gets backup BEFORE getting to I 40/ I235/I 35 interchange from too many on ramps and offramps located too close to each other. It's going to get even worse when the Blvd exit opens. I235 is basically a younger version of the old crosstown bridge. Also, for whatever reason traffic backs up on 35 near that curve 44th street. After that it was smooth sailing.

They would have to demolish the entire I235 bridge structure and redesign it from the ground up to get traffic flowing through there properly.

[Snowman]

When the debate began in 2012, ODOT said the Boulevard would carry 58,000 vehicles a day when it opened and 93,000 vehicles a day in 2035. By the time the review process was finished, public pressure and federal scrutiny resulted in ODOT correcting those figures and admitting that the Boulevard would only carry 12,920 vehicles a day when it opens in 2015 and 18,050 vehicles a day twenty-five years from now in 2040.

Better Block OKC published a very powerful graphic illustrating just what those numbers really mean in terms of whether the Boulevard is even necessary. The chart speaks for itself.

Attachment 10064

Yes, this graph clearly indicates that we should expect another 50% travel on roads twenty five years from now.

[Just the facts]

Wrecks happen. There is construction in the picture. How do you it was 10am? Both of the flyovers are the ones going in the same direction which means that one highway is experiencing construction or there is a wreck.

Whatever the cause - the flyovers didn't alleviate the congestion.

[Zuplar]

I suspect that you may find that your ideas about this may evolve as you get older. I grew up on a farm outside of Norman and was always used to plenty of land surrounding me. Later in life I moved to Mustang and successively have lived on 3 acres and then one acre properties. At the time I loved it. I now live in OKC on much, much less and an very happy with it. I have had relatives who thought it would be wonderful to retire and move to 5 acre or larger lots. They did and as they aged they found it was quickly too much for them to even begin to take care of. Many people are now discovering this at a much younger age. You're correct that there will always be those wanting a lot of space but that percentage is certainly decreasing.

I can definitely understand that when you get to a certain age it becomes too much. My neighbors are in there 70's and sometimes I wonder how they do it, but honestly they have the best lawn in the neighborhood. I'm going through something similar with my grandparents. They live west of Mustang in OKC on a few acres and now being in their 80's it has become too much for them to take care of, but they don't want to leave it. I wish they'd downsize, but it's most likely going to come down to my family taking care of it for them.

[Rover]

Yes, this graph clearly indicates that we should expect another 50% travel on roads twenty five years from now.

Yes, it is shocking that as the great republican recession hit and gas prices kept rising that people should drive less.

Why don't we wait a few years to see what happens with low unemployment and low gas prices. If miles driven continues to decrease under those circumstances, then it will signal a true DESIRE to drive less, and not just a financial hardship requiring them to drive less. People tend to look at trends and totally ignore what is causal and what is circumstantial. Let's get more data before the new urbanists start patting themselves on the back.

[Urbanized]

We DO have more. That graph is 3 years old, and at that point miles driven per capita were at a 1999 level. Today they are at a 1993 level. So, the trend is even more pronounced 7 years after the recession than it was a few years ago. This was revealed to OKC developers this very afternoon in a report at the DowntownOKC Inc Developers luncheon by Brad Segal of P.U.M.A., a downtown expert who has assisted OKC with creation of of its BIDs over the years. You can find this and other relevant information in P.U.M.A.'s Global Trends Report, found here: PUMA

[Rover]

It is not 7 years after the recession. For most, the recession hasn't really ended as employment has slowly gone back up, but not wages. Earnings of the top 5-10% don't translate into buying cars and gas. I'm not saying that habits and desires don't change- maybe they have- , but it is too early to declare a victory for strict urbanists until there is a broader recovery. With ever declining middle income wages and numbers, maybe it won't ever improve again, but then again, the high numbers of low wage earners aren't populating high priced downtowns either.

[Plutonic Panda]

We DO have more. That graph is 3 years old, and at that point miles driven per capita were at a 1999 level. Today they are at a 1993 level. So, the trend is even more pronounced 7 years after the recession than it was a few years ago. This was revealed to OKC developers this very afternoon in a report at the DowntownOKC Inc Developers luncheon by Brad Segal of P.U.M.A., a downtown expert who has assisted OKC with creation of of its BIDs over the years. You can find this and other relevant information in P.U.M.A.'s Global Trends Report, found here: PUMA

I have seen a couple articles that stated driving was starting to go back up and more drivers licenses were starting to be issued again. How much, I don't remember.

[Urbanized]

It's not seven years since the recession "ended"; but it is certainly seven years after it began, according to accepted definition.

[Snowman]

Yes, it is shocking that as the great republican recession hit and gas prices kept rising that people should drive less.

Why don't we wait a few years to see what happens with low unemployment and low gas prices. If miles driven continues to decrease under those circumstances, then it will signal a true DESIRE to drive less, and not just a financial hardship requiring them to drive less. People tend to look at trends and totally ignore what is causal and what is circumstantial. Let's get more data before the new urbanists start patting themselves on the back.

We are also seeing baby boomers retirement roll along and companies operating with less staff than ten years ago either are go normally, take pay packages to leave or are just laid off.

[Just the facts]

Yes, it is shocking that as the great republican recession hit and gas prices kept rising that people should drive less.

Driving peaked, and started declining, 2 years BEFORE the recession. There is no denying that the world the baby-boomers created is going to die with them.

The End of the Suburbs: Where the American Dream Is Moving: Leigh Gallagher: 9781591846970: Amazon.com: Books

[White Peacock]

"you freeway types" . . . that's hilarious. Have fun with your ramblings. I'm done acknowledging you.

That's such a freeway type thing to say.

[Plutonic Panda]

I know. I'm just a horrible freeway fiend, what can I say?

[bchris02]

Driving peaked, and started declining, 2 years BEFORE the recession. There is no denying that the world the baby-boomers created is going to die with them.

The End of the Suburbs: Where the American Dream Is Moving: Leigh Gallagher: 9781591846970: Amazon.com: Books

The Geography Of Aging: Why Millennials Are Headed To The Suburbs - Forbes

[Rover]

Don't bring facts to this argument.

[Zuplar]

The Geography Of Aging: Why Millennials Are Headed To The Suburbs - Forbes

While people are moving back to the urban core more so in the past, the suburbs definitely aren't going away.

[Urbanized]

Out of 10,000+ registered users on this forum, there is probably only a single poster who would try to tell you that the suburbs are going away. I can't believe that people get so wound up like someone is actually trying to take away the option to live in the 'burbs. Heck, statistically it remains practically the ONLY option in OKC, and will for the foreseeable future.

[BrettM2]

Out of 10,000+ registered users on this forum, there is probably only a single poster who would try to tell you that the suburbs are going away. I can't believe that people get so wound up like someone is actually trying to take away the option to live in the 'burbs. Heck, statistically it remains practically the ONLY option in OKC, and will for the foreseeable future.

How do you expect people to have uncontrollable internet rage when you display such reason and logic? Damn you.

[Plutonic Panda]

How do you expect people to have uncontrollable internet rage when you display such reason and logic? Damn you.

if given the power, there is no denying that many on here would eventually make it very difficult to live in the suburbs and their definition of 'suburbs' is different than what I and I'm guessing Zuplar is thinking.

[Urbanized]

Really? You base that on what, exactly?

[okclee]

Out of 10,000+ registered users on this forum, there is probably only a single poster who would try to tell you that the suburbs are going away. I can't believe that people get so wound up like someone is actually trying to take away the option to live in the 'burbs. Heck, statistically it remains practically the ONLY option in OKC, and will for the foreseeable future.

And if I'm not mistaken that ONE person lives in the suburbs!