OG&E Energy Center

[Pete]

To clarify, TIF's actually run 25 years, the max allowed by the state constitution.

I may have mispoken about how the award is paid out... In a few cases, the City provides the money upfront as a low-interest loan until such time the developer would normally receive it. But for the most part, they aren't doing that any more.

Otherwise it is paid when the development is complete and certified by the terms of the agreement.

Also, typically the agreement contains claw-back provisions in the case of sale or transfer of ownership. The City will be particularly careful with Clayco since their stated intention is to sell quickly.

[Just the facts]

So based on that and let's assume there is a $100 million TIF. Where does OKC get the $100 million to give Clayco?

[Pete]

So based on that and let's assume there is a $100 million TIF. Where does OKC get the $100 million to give Clayco?

499 Sheridan and the tax increases from the Clayco development itself:

OKCTalk - New TIF district would fund OG&E HQ, convention garage and hotel

[adaniel]

You guys act like this is unique to OKC. The fact is you follow OKC development so you know when announced projects don't get built. I guarantee this stuff happens in every city. Dallas had some huge tower announced a while back that is never happening. I'm sure if you researched it, you'd find out that Austin, Houston, NYC, Charlotte, Nashville and just about every city in the US has projects either scaled back or canceled all together. By the way, nothing has been canceled yet and the one tower that we have seen a rendering for looks awesome! Y'all are so negative about everything.

That's how this board works. Lack of information always causes people to lurch to overly negative conclusions that are usually wrong (see: Tower Theatre Church fiasco).

I agree completely though, some people cannot handle the "sausage making" that comes with tracking these things. Projects get cancelled, modified, and/or scaled back all over BTW, the tower you are referencing in Dallas is definitely dead, but that's how these things work. Its not a critique on the market or developer.

I think I need to give OKCtalk a break; it has been incredibly downbeat on here lately. Winter blues, maybe?

[Pete]

People are just not used to getting information so far in advance.

Plans always change and they almost never expand, they contract for any number of reasons.

It also depends on where you want to mark your points of comparison. You could say that if Clayco only buildings the OG&E HQ, that would be a huge let down. Or, you could say it's a massive upgrade -- height, design, quality -- from what was originally proposed.

It's all a matter of perspective but also being new to following projects from their very origins, which is a pretty new thing.

[bchris02]

It also depends on where you want to mark your points of comparison. You could say that if Clayco only buildings the OG&E HQ, that would be a huge let down. Or, you could say it's a massive upgrade -- height, design, quality -- from what was originally proposed.

True. Even if just the OG&E Tower gets built, that will still be much, much better than the 14-story concept that was originally released back in 2013. I still think any TIF should be tied to the residential tower.

[David]

Developer seeks $62 million assistance for downtown towers

The $62 appears to be for the entire site. From the article:

The application breaks down to $22 million for the OGE Energy Corp. tower, $9.5 million for the north apartment tower, and the remaining tax increment financing assistance for the south half of the block.

Incidentally, zero wishy-washyness about the north tower at least in the statements from the Clayco CEO:

Chapman said if the application is approved by the Oklahoma City Economic Development Trust and the Oklahoma City Council, construction could begin on the 25-story OGE Energy Corp. headquarters by May, with work starting soon after on a 26-story apartment tower. He said market conditions will determine when work will begin on matching office and apartment towers on the south half of the block controlled by the Urban Renewal Authority.

[AP]

That's a pretty significant reduction in the amount requested.

[David]

It's back to being pretty similar to what was requested in their presentation to OCURA

[bchris02]

Developer seeks $62 million assistance for downtown towers

The $62 appears to be for the entire site. From the article:



Incidentally, zero wishy-washyness about the north tower at least in the statements from the Clayco CEO:

Good news on both fronts. Smaller TIF and more confidence they are going to be able to deliver. Now let's get ground broken already!

[Pete]

That's at least in the ball park. Hope it still gets negotiated down.


Very difficult to accept their claim they can't make the project work without tax dollars since Hines is doing almost the identical project at the same time and directly across the street.

[gopokes88]

Told you guys the TIF amount would could down. It's now $62 million for ~$450 project. So 15%ish? That's not too bad at all. It's spilt exactly in half between first two towers and 2nd two towers. I'd negotiate it be back loaded. $25 million for the first two towers and 37 million for second set. Incentitive to make sure the second half gets built.

[Spartan]

Especially if the starting point can be negotiated down further, it would be a valuable investment to then up the TIF amount in exchange for more assurances and control over this development. That is a damn good deal, because we all want to see this development built as proposed now.

If we do 499 and then this only gets half-built, the southwest corner of downtown really has not densified AT ALL. Consider that...

[hoya]

We're getting into the right ballpark now. The exact details are important of course, but this number seems much more palatable. I would suggest giving more money to the later stages as opposed to the earlier ones. The OG&E tower should need almost no TIF dollars, but I can understand residential tower #2 probably has significant risk associated with it, and so may need more.

[Pete]

The main reason they are seeking most the TIF dollars for the office tower phase (the residential tower being Phase II) is because it involves building the entire north garage.

If and when the residential tower is built, it will be atop that garage.


Clayco's main argument is they need the TIF dollars to bridge the financing (and cash flow) gap for the parking infrastructure.


I'll break all this down in greater detail later.

[Pete]

Here's a simple breakdown:


$69 million total request (that's about 12.5% of the total $553 million development cost; still well more than any other award by percentage and total amount)

$22 million for OG&E Tower + North Parking Structure
$9.5 million for North Residential Tower

$37.5 million for South Parcel Development (1 office tower, 1 residential tower + 1 parking garage)


So, more than half would be for the south parcel ($37.5 million vs. $31.5 million).

[Just the facts]

So what happens to the current OG&E building and parking garage? Harvey and McGee is the coolest intersection in the entire state. Talk about a prime building to convert to residential.

[Bellaboo]

So what happens to the current OG&E building and parking garage? Harvey and McGee is the coolest intersection in the entire state. Talk about a prime building to convert to residential.

I kind of remember somewhere that residential conversion was at the top of the list. I agree, I think the coolest view is from the post office parking lot across from the Memorial going South down Harvey.

[gopokes88]

So what happens to the current OG&E building and parking garage? Harvey and McGee is the coolest intersection in the entire state. Talk about a prime building to convert to residential.

Eh we'll probably demolish it then.

[Spartan]

The main reason they are seeking most the TIF dollars for the office tower phase (the residential tower being Phase II) is because it involves building the entire north garage.

If and when the residential tower is built, it will be atop that garage.

I'll break all this down in greater detail later.

We've heard this before. That's why we need assurances.

[HOT ROD]

Since redevelopment of the existing site is all but assured, could OGE not use those potential proceeds to help facilitate construction of its tower? I mean, I'm sure Devon must have done something similar with the sale of its original building providing some sort of cash injection so to bridge its new/current tower/campus.

I could see, again, if the TIF was tied to public amenities and/or more oversight of construction (thereby gaining something 499/Devon will NOT give the city) but we shouldn't just hand it out and get 'nothing' for it in return. I also agree with backloading the south parcel TIF to protect the city in-case it isn't built while also providing incentive TO build.

TIF needs to be used to PARTNER with developers to assure the city gets the best project built and NOT treated as a slush fund to assure developers will be profitable at city discretion and taxpayer/school/libraries burden. ...

[Just the facts]

I agree Hot Rod - I would like to see OG&E's current building in the hands of the City so it can be sold to a developer who will convert it to housing. Does OG&E also own the large parking garage adjacent to it?

[Bellaboo]

I agree Hot Rod - I would like to see OG&E's current building in the hands of the City so it can be sold to a developer who will convert it to housing. Does OG&E also own the large parking garage adjacent to it?

I'm pretty sure they do.

[Pete]

The county owns the parking garage next to OG&E.

The existing OG&E building would make great housing:

[TU 'cane]

The county owns the parking garage next to OG&E.

The existing OG&E building would make great housing:

Oh, silly you. You made a mistake. You see, in OKC, this is what you were really meaning to say:


"The existing OG&E building would look great torn down and replaced with a parking garage."

Oh, I know this isn't the thread for that. I'll end the 499 negativity there.