OK Gazette: Millennials are changing the city forever

[Plutonic Panda]

However, I believe more are still choosing suburbia.

You don't have to believe it, it's true. Look at Dallas, when given a great light-rail system or a great highway system, people are opting for the highways because cars are a better form of transit.

[betts]

Cars are frequently not a better mode of transit. My daughter had an hour and 45 min. commute in Atlanta until I convinced her to try MARTA, which took her home in 45 min. That's two hours a day she had to spend doing something other than driving and polluting. Safer too! If I lived in Dallas, there is no way I would drive if I could use mass transit.

[adaniel]

I didn't say nobody wants to live downtown or in an urban setting and that there is no demand for mass transit. I believe the city's downtown resurgence will only accelerate as more amenities are offered in the core. However, I believe more are still choosing suburbia. In fact, if I had to guesstimate 3 out of 4 people under age 30 I've meet since living in OKC either live north of 63rd or south of I-240.

Of course you probably only see 3 out of 4 people, because the inner loop makes up less than 20% of the metro total population. That's like saying in NYC metro the majority of millennials live outside of Manhattan...no **** Sherlock, Manhattan is less than 2 million out of a population of over 20 million. But most people would agree that the excitement of Manhattan, rather than White Plains or NJ, is what will lure young people the NYC area. Actually by your own observations, young people are over represented in the inner loop. Half my circle lived in the inner loop...but that is my own anecdotal experience.

I'm getting burnt out on the discussion of millenials as one monolithic group. When you are talking about millenials in the economic sense, we are not talking about random people who just so happen to be under the age of 30. We are talking about educated, ambitious, mobile, and likely without kids. Companies like Devon fight over these people because they are their future workforce as boomers finally start retiring. In OKC, a lot of these are transplants. I can guarantee you that very few of these types are living in Edmond or Yukon (maybe Norman). Hell, Chesapeake's own recruitment video plugs Deep Deuce hard, even though their HQ is on 63rd and Western.

Why? People want to live where they can enjoy themselves . And I'm going to say this as nice as I can....if you desire an upscale young suburban lifestyle, i.e. Addison Texas or Scottsdale Arizona where you can run up your credit card at Shoppes of Towne Centre and stuff your face at TGI Fridays, you simply won't find that in OKC. That is not and may never be this city's strength.

The young people who live here and already have their circle of friends may be okay with a new Home Creations box and Baker Street on Memorial, but for young professionals who can live anywhere else, that won't cut it.

[bchris02]

Of course you probably only see 3 out of 4 people, because the inner loop makes up less than 20% of the metro total population. That's like saying in NYC metro the majority of millennials live outside of Manhattan...no **** Sherlock, Manhattan is less than 2 million out of a population of over 20 million. But most people would agree that the excitement of Manhattan, rather than White Plains or NJ, is what will lure young people the NYC area. Actually by your own observations, young people are over represented in the inner loop. Half my circle lived in the inner loop...but that is my own anecdotal experience.

A lot of urbanists, yourself included, act like all millennials want to live downtown, without a car, and be reliant on public transportation. All I am saying is that is not the case. In fact, in OKC a majority of Gen Y are still opting for the suburbs. Your comparison to New York is pretty ridiculous. New York has just about as much comparison to OKC as Hong Kong or Mexico City. Truth is, I don't disagree with you that a lot of millennials want a vibrant, urban, walkable area. OKC is headed in the right direction and it will only snowball as more amenities are offered downtown. However, that isn't everyone and a lot of millennials, possibly even a majority, are choosing suburbia.

I'm getting burnt out on the discussion of millenials as one monolithic group. When you are talking about millenials in the economic sense, we are not talking about random people who just so happen to be under the age of 30. We are talking about educated, ambitious, mobile, and likely without kids. Companies like Devon fight over these people because they are their future workforce as boomers finally start retiring. In OKC, a lot of these are transplants. I can guarantee you that very few of these types are living in Edmond or Yukon (maybe Norman). Hell, Chesapeake's own recruitment video plugs Deep Deuce hard, even though their HQ is on 63rd and Western.

Millennials, by their narrowest definition, is anyone born between 1982 and 1996. That includes the young, active, single professional but it also includes the blue collar worker or the young couple that got married at 18 and had three kids by 20. This thread is about millennials as a whole, not young professionals. It isn't one monolithic group like the media tries to paint it as.

Why? People want to live where they can enjoy themselves . And I'm going to say this as nice as I can....if you desire an upscale young suburban lifestyle, i.e. Addison Texas or Scottsdale Arizona where you can run up your credit card at Shoppes of Towne Centre and stuff your face at TGI Fridays, you simply won't find that in OKC. That is not and may never be this city's strength.

The young people who live here and already have their circle of friends may be okay with a new Home Creations box and Baker Street on Memorial, but for young professionals who can live anywhere else, that won't cut it.

I am a little confused by this and could really derail the thread if I wanted to but I don't. I think OKC is ready for a cool suburban alternative to downtown and will have one within the next five years unless something changes.

[adaniel]

A lot of urbanists, yourself included, act like all millennials want to live downtown, without a car, and be reliant on public transportation. All I am saying is that is not the case. In fact, in OKC a majority of Gen Y are still opting for the suburbs.

Excuse me? I have never said or alluded to such a thing. I am very careful about threads related to transportation because I myself am a bit of a car enthusiast. I have been very vocal about the major financial costs of roads but that does not mean I believe all people want the same thing. You clearly missed where I said "millenials are not a monolithic group." Do NOT put words in my mouth to make a point, please.

Also, my NYC example sailed over your head. I agree that that majority of millenials in OKC live outside the core, because the vast majority of the total population lives outside the core. Its a function of math more than anything.

Millennials, by their narrowest definition, is anyone born between 1982 and 1996. That includes the young, active, single professional but it also includes the blue collar worker or the young couple that got married at 18 and had three kids by 20. This thread is about millennials as a whole, not young professionals. It isn't one monolithic group like the media tries to paint it as.

I'm quite aware what this thread was discussing, but I am referencing an economic development angle. When Mick Cornett does his spiel about OKC's growth, he uses the plug, "highly educated twenty-somethings," not just "twenty-somethings." That is what OKC and other cities are fighting for. These are the types that are making the most income (unlike the blue collar worker) while impacting the least on social services (unlike the 20 year old with 3 kids).

Yes, I am quite aware that OKC's economy has a large sector of energy service and aerospace workers, largely considered "blue collar," but these generally require some advanced education and pay well. For better or worse, these jobs are the exception in this country. No cities are out actively courting 18 year old brides or blue collar factory workers because they simply don't bring enough to the table to in terms of returned tax revenue. I know that's rather cold but in the 21st century, its the truth; that's why they call it "human capital."

I am a little confused by this and could really derail the thread if I wanted to but I don't. I think OKC is ready for a cool suburban alternative to downtown and will have one within the next five years unless something changes.

We could have something like that, but we don't. You work with what you have, not with what you wish you had. Most young people and entrepreneurs are very excited about downtown or the surrounding core neighborhoods. I see little that will change this. Unless you are talking about Chisholm Creek...it seems like a nice development but it would be very generous to consider that a "suburban alternative to downtown."

[bchris02]

I'm quite aware what this thread was discussing, but I am referencing an economic development angle. When Mick Cornett does his spiel about OKC's growth, he uses the plug, "highly educated twenty-somethings," not just "twenty-somethings." That is what OKC and other cities are fighting for. These are the types that are making the most income (unlike the blue collar worker) while impacting the least on social services (unlike the 20 year old with 3 kids).

I had a long, elaborate rant on this typed up but I am just going to say that if OKC wants to be competitive with highly educated twentysomethings who could move anywhere, its politics need to moderate. Most people in this demographic are socially progressive and even the religious are usually not cold hard fundamentalists. Politicians like Sally Kern are going to repel the people this state is trying to attract and retain.

We could have something like that, but we don't. You work with what you have, not with what you wish you had. Most young people and entrepreneurs are very excited about downtown or the surrounding core neighborhoods. I see little that will change this. Unless you are talking about Chisholm Creek...it seems like a nice development but it would be very generous to consider that a "suburban alternative to downtown."

Its ironic that a city that is so oriented towards its suburbs doesn't even do suburbia that well. To be fair, the upscale suburban lifestyle can be had, almost, in Edmond. There are a few things missing but most of the ingredients are there. Norman in the area around Campus Corner is already a suburban alternative to downtown. Personally I think Campus Corner blows Bricktown completely out of the water as an urban entertainment district. Chisholm Creek definitely could be the start of creating a more vibrant suburban area in north OKC, an area badly needing such a thing. It should bring what is missing to the Edmond area. Even though its close to the core, I might even consider the Wheeler district to be a separate entity. It's a suburban style development, just master planned. It will be a slam dunk with young, educated professionals.

[Zuplar]

I'm not sure exactly what qualifies as highly educated, but my wife and I both have masters and work in white collar jobs, and we definitely don't want to live downtown.

[Filthy]

I'm not sure exactly what qualifies as highly educated, but my wife and I both have masters and work in white collar jobs, and we definitely don't want to live downtown.

Well its already been clearly explained. If you don't want to live downtown, you're family is old fashioned, outdated, uneducated Jesus freaks with 5 kids, and are upside down in a mortgage. You obviously are a slave to your cars, and only eat pre packaged plastic foods from chain restaurants on memorial, all the while living in an 1,200 sq ft modular Home Creations home.

[AP]

Well its already been clearly explained. If you don't want to live downtown, you're family is old fashioned, outdated, uneducated Jesus freaks with 5 kids, and are upside down in a mortgage. You obviously are a slave to your cars, and only eat pre packaged plastic foods from chain restaurants on memorial, all the while living in an 1,200 sq ft modular Home Creations home.

Seems about right.

[Zuplar]

Well its already been clearly explained. If you don't want to live downtown, you're family is old fashioned, outdated, uneducated Jesus freaks with 5 kids, and are upside down in a mortgage. You obviously are a slave to your cars, and only eat pre packaged plastic foods from chain restaurants on memorial, all the while living in an 1,200 sq ft modular Home Creations home.

lol. I see what you did there.

Not that it matters, but I actually got such a good deal on my 'custom home,' mostly because it was a foreclosure, I'm actually able to refinance for 15 and have about the same payment. I hate to disappoint people but this young professional doesn't fit the mold.

[bchris02]

Seems about right.

Edmond and Norman are among the most educated municipalities in the state. In Edmond, 51.1% of the population has a bachelors degree or higher and in Norman it is 43.5%. Compare that to OKC at 28.1% and the state average of 23.5%.

[Zuplar]

Edmond and Norman are among the most educated municipalities in the state. In Edmond, 51.1% of the population has a bachelors degree or higher and in Norman it is 43.5%. Compare that to OKC at 28.1% and the state average of 23.5%.

That's really interesting. Everyone in my family has at least a bachelors except my sister, and that includes one set of grandparents. I guess I just grew up thinking that everyone had to get a degree, although I know a lot don't.

[AP]

Edmond and Norman are among the most educated municipalities in the state. In Edmond, 51.1% of the population has a bachelors degree or higher and in Norman it is 43.5%. Compare that to OKC at 28.1% and the state average of 23.5%.

I was being sarcastic. But I'm curious why you didn't include the statistics for every other suburb of OKC.

[jn1780]

I'm not sure exactly what qualifies as highly educated, but my wife and I both have masters and work in white collar jobs, and we definitely don't want to live downtown.

Do you work downtown? I wouldn't want to live downtown if I didn't even work within two blocks or had easy access to public transportation.

[Zuplar]

Do you work downtown? I wouldn't want to live downtown if I didn't even work within two blocks or had easy access to public transportation.

Nope, I work in the suburbs.

[jn1780]

Nope, I work in the suburbs.

Well that makes sense. Living downtown would be kind of pointless.

[Rover]

Do you work downtown? I wouldn't want to live downtown if I didn't even work within two blocks or had easy access to public transportation.

So, why wouldn't you? Do you think the only ones that you want to live downtown are those that work downtown?

[AP]

So, why wouldn't you? Do you think the only ones that you want to live downtown are those that work downtown?

That's me. I don't work in the suburbs but I do work at I-40 and Meridian.

[jn1780]

So, why wouldn't you? Do you think the only ones that you want to live downtown are those that work downtown?

If I'm going to still have to drive to work, grocery store, etc, I'm going to want to get more house/apartment for my money.

Also, I would say the vast majority of people who live downtown also work downtown or perhaps the HSC.

[AP]

I can say that the vast majority of people in my building at Deep Deuce Apartments don't work downtown. Two of my coworkers live in Deep Deuce and like I said earlier, I work at I-40 and Meridian. The parking lot to my building is empty during the day and full at night. Same thing when I lived in Midtown. A large portion of DD residents work at Tinker.

[bradh]

That's me. I don't work in the suburbs but I do work at I-40 and Meridian.

I guess you could live in a hotel over there

[betts]

I think what you'll find in cities of over a million people is that there are trends, but obviously different people want different things and make different choices. One person posting here is just that - one person who is an incredibly small percentage of any demographic. On a message board, we post as individuals with an individual point of view that sometimes coincides with other people posting here but all we are posting is our opinion. If, as BDP noted, 10% of our population would like to live downtown, that is a seismic shift from 10 years ago, but still a small percentage of the total population. Not everyone with a doctorate or PhD is going to want to live downtown.

[OkiePoke]

Being a 'Millenial', I live in Deer Creek. I'm single, as are both of my roommates who fall in the category.

I would love to live downtown.... But I also wanted to buy a house and have plenty of space. I couldn't justify spending the same to get far less near downtown/midtown.

[bradh]

and that's perfectly okay, the city needs all types

[OKCinsomniac]

I used to be hung up on the $ / sq. ft. issue. I bought a house with a big yard and trees and a deck and thought it would be so great.

Five years later, sick of yard work, skyrocketing insurance rates and having to drive everywhere to everything, I bought a smaller place downtown - and my only regret is I didn't do it sooner.

Re: the grocery store issue -- I find that between Native Roots, The Medicine Cabinet, Amazon (and even a service like Urban Essentials, which I have yet to try) I don't find myself needing to take other grocery trips that often (maybe once or twice a month). Hell, if I get hungry I can always just walk down to grab a burrito from Fuzzy's (and maybe stop off for a beer at Skinny Slim's on the way back).