Oklahoma liquor laws

[bluedogok]

Liquor stores in Austin close at 11:00 and are closed on Sundays, the grocery store sales help mitigate some of the access issue but they still have a nightly time restriction and no beer/wine sales before noon on Sunday. To me the liquor store hours are not as big of an issue as refrigeration and grocery store sales.

Ours here in Denver can be open until midnight and on Sunday but many choose to close on Sunday and earlier during the week. We also don't have high point beer or wine in grocery stores.

[Plutonic Panda]

Liquor stores in Austin close at 11:00 and are closed on Sundays, the grocery store sales help mitigate some of the access issue but they still have a nightly time restriction and no beer/wine sales before noon on Sunday. To me the liquor store hours are not as big of an issue as refrigeration and grocery store sales.

Ours here in Denver can be open until midnight and on Sunday but many choose to close on Sunday and earlier during the week. We also don't have high point beer or wine in grocery stores.

It's still nice as a business to have the option to sell liquor on Sundays in what is called a free country.

[Laramie]

An article in today's Oklahoman: " Bill would allow liquor stores to sell cold beer."


Excerpts:

Senate Bill 383, by Sen. Stephanie Bice, R-Oklahoma City, would amend state law to allow liquor stores to refrigerate beer.

Consumers would still have to purchase high-point beer at liquor stores. Bice said making refrigeration optional could be done with a statutory change and is something many other states already allow.

Jill Ogden, manager of 2nd Street Wine Co. in Edmond, said she agreed refrigeration would encourage other craft breweries to ship to Oklahoma.

[jerrywall]

Can't be. As people said, things will never change, we're too backwards, AB, religion, blah blah blah. No chance of a bill being proposed to put cold beer in stores... amiright?

[trousers]

I'm just wondering about the logistics of this. Two of my main stores are fairly small and all ready packed. If they try to move some coolers in they won't have much room left.

[jerrywall]

I'm just wondering about the logistics of this. Two of my main stores are fairly small and all ready packed. If they try to move some coolers in they won't have much room left.

Some stores just wont, and long term, they'll go out of business. I know we looked at what we would have to do, and it would involve knocking down a wall...

[Plutonic Panda]

Some stores just wont, and long term, they'll go out of business. I know we looked at what we would have to do, and it would involve knocking down a wall...

Do you own a liquor store? If so, I'll start shopping at your store. I don't drink myself, but I make runs for my grandmother and such.

[jerrywall]

Do you own a liquor store? If so, I'll start shopping at your store. I don't drink myself, but I make runs for my grandmother and such.

We used to, but sold it a couple of years back.

[TheTravellers]

I'm just wondering about the logistics of this. Two of my main stores are fairly small and all ready packed. If they try to move some coolers in they won't have much room left.

Couldn't the coolers be substituted for the racks of beer? Take beer off racks, put coolers in place of racks, turn coolers on, put beer in coolers? Maybe not in every store, but seems simple enough...

[bchris02]

Some stores just wont, and long term, they'll go out of business.

Does most liquor stores' profits come primarily from beer or from wine/spirits? For instance if I was a store owner and I didn't want to invest in refrigeration, I would have to accept that I may not be able to compete on beer and would shift the focus to wine and spirits where refrigeration isn't necessary.

[jerrywall]

Does most liquor stores' profits come primarily from beer or from wine/spirits? For instance if I was a store owner and I didn't want to invest in refrigeration, I would have to accept that I may not be able to compete on beer and would shift the focus to wine and spirits where refrigeration isn't necessary.

Beer is a decent profit center. Wine is the top in Oklahoma. Spirits are almost nothing (really, a break even or loss leader section). The markup on spirits in Oklahoma is almost non-existent. A shop could survive on wine sales alone, but I think customers might shift to stores that provided cold beer AND wine. That being said, I think someone could make a decent go of a special wine shop, if they stocked/managed it well.

[bille]

Quick list of those that would be opposed?

[Stickman]

Hell........not me. I'm kind of partial to a cold beer over a warm one.

[jerrywall]

Quick list of those that would be opposed?

Loves, 7-11, etc...

[dankrutka]

I only skimmed this thread, but to provide some context, many liquor laws actually derived as part of a women's movement because drunk men were more likely to beat women during times when women had very little legal or social recourse. So, all these laws aren't nevessarily about being backwards nationally (I can't speak to Oklahoma's laws specifically), but they are outdated and unnecessary. (Not that domestic violence is not still a problem, it is, but these laws do not seem to deter it).

[bchris02]

I only skimmed this thread, but to provide some context, many liquor laws actually derived as part of a women's movement because drunk men were more likely to beat women during times when women had very little legal or social recourse. So, all these laws aren't nevessarily about being backwards nationally (I can't speak to Oklahoma's laws specifically), but they are outdated and unnecessary. (Not that domestic violence is not still a problem, it is, but these laws do not seem to deter it).

The temperance movement and push for prohibition was considered a progressive cause in the 1900s and 1910s. It's just most states moved on from that experiment in the 1930s after the election of FDR. Oklahoma didn't.

[bluedogok]

It's still nice as a business to have the option to sell liquor on Sundays in what is called a free country.

Free country? Keep telling yourself that. There are other much more "liberal" states which have more restrictions and open times and ownership than Oklahoma. Like I posted earlier, many have state controlled liquor distribution from wholesale to retail....and most of those would be considered "progressive states"

You still can''t buy a car on Sunday in many states, Colorado is one along with Oklahoma. In Texas the dealer has the option of what weekend day to be open, if you are open on Sunday you have to close on Saturday. I remember blue laws still being in effect in the early 80's in some cities of the DFW area.

[Bunty]

Free country? Keep telling yourself that. There are other much more "liberal" states which have more restrictions and open times and ownership than Oklahoma. Like I posted earlier, many have state controlled liquor distribution from wholesale to retail....and most of those would be considered "progressive states"

You still can''t buy a car on Sunday in many states, Colorado is one along with Oklahoma. In Texas the dealer has the option of what weekend day to be open, if you are open on Sunday you have to close on Saturday. I remember blue laws still being in effect in the early 80's in some cities of the DFW area.

Did we ever figure out why cars are so special that it was judged that they can't be sold on Sunday?

[Urbanized]

It's a holdover from blue laws that once restricted far more activities than car sales, but nowadays auto dealers would fight a change in the law. Basically it guarantees that they can take one day off per week and not lose any sales to other dealers. And since adding a day wouldn't necessarily increase customer demand, a mandated day off reduces expenses, again probably without costing sales. Oklahoma by far is not alone in auto sales blue laws, BTW.

[bluedogok]

Did we ever figure out why cars are so special that it was judged that they can't be sold on Sunday?

When I worked the collector car auctions for John Hoke we used to have to have a certain percentage of "classic cars" run on Sunday to classify as a car show, that is why so many of the older cars was run across the block on that day.

I do know that some of the motorcycle/powersports mega-dealers in Texas were open on Saturday and Sunday when I lived in Austin but none of the car dealers were open both weekend days. Most of the independent motorcycle/powersports were closed on Sunday and some also were closed on Monday as was tradition in the industry.

Here in Denver I haven't seen either car or motorcycle/powersports dealers open on Sunday. Most motorcycle/powersports are also closed on Monday up here like what I remember in Oklahoma.

[Urbanized]

Motorcycle shops being closed Sun-Mon is a traditional holdover from the days when most shops were heavily involved in racing. "Race on Sunday, rest on Monday." Monday was their only true day off.

[bille]

Loves, 7-11, etc...

Simply from increased competition, high point cold beer versus low point cold beer?

What about thoughts on bill 424?

http://webserver1.lsb.state.ok.us/cf...B424%20INT.PDF

The refrigeration, I think, actually has a chance. Breweries being able to sell direct however doesn't stand a chance. They need to be able to sell direct. Even better (which this proposal doesn't include) is the ability to have a taproom and sell for on-premise consumption.

[bchris02]

Simply from increased competition, high point cold beer versus low point cold beer?

What about thoughts on bill 424?

http://webserver1.lsb.state.ok.us/cf...B424%20INT.PDF

The refrigeration, I think, actually has a chance. Breweries being able to sell direct however doesn't stand a chance. They need to be able to sell direct. Even better (which this proposal doesn't include) is the ability to have a taproom and sell for on-premise consumption.

The brewery issue is the reason that OKC doesn't have the kind of brewpub culture other cities do. Personally I see that as more likely to pass than refrigeration since its similar to what has already been done with the wineries. Refrigeration is going to face stiff opposition from smaller liquor stores who don't want to have to pay for the refrigeration systems and who don't want competition with stores who do. While I don't expect it to be as big of a deal as it was in years past, I will be surprised if there isn't also a pushback from the religious right and from MADD groups over refrigeration. Still, I hope it does pass and if it does, it will be the biggest change for Oklahoma liquor laws since liquor by the drink.

[warreng88]

From the JR:

Cool cases, hot prospect: Bill allowing chilled beer at liquor stores could bring more brewers to state

By: Molly M. Fleming The Journal Record January 23, 2015

OKLAHOMA CITY – There are about 675 liquor stores across the state, filled with concoctions ranging from marshmallow-flavored vodka to bacon doughnut beer. State Sen. Stephanie Bice, R-Piedmont, is concerned about the beer; she wants alcohol retailers to be able to sell high-alcohol-content beer cold.

Bice is a fan of the suds herself, and said she has heard from other Oklahomans that the law regarding beer sales needs to change. Senate Bill 383 would allow beer to be sold below room temperature at liquor stores; no other beverages are mentioned. She said some laws regarding alcohol must be taken to the people, but this change can be made by the Legislature.

“I felt like it would be a positive change for the consumers,” she said.

It would also be a positive change for the state’s perception by breweries outside the state. Colorado-based New Belgium Brewing Co. Sales Co-Pilot Brian Krueger, who oversees new territory development, said the state’s lack of liquor store refrigeration is a major concern.

“Our beer would not have the capability to be refrigerated all the way to the consumer,” he said. “That has been part of our decision to not go into the Oklahoma market.”

The company sells beer to every state surrounding Oklahoma. He said he has heard from Oklahomans asking why the company’s products cannot be purchased here. He said they often note that New Belgium products are sold at room temperature in Texas or other states.

“It can be displayed warm for 30 days,” he said. “Then it must be refrigerated; otherwise it will change the flavor profile of our beer. For us, in our high-quality standards, we want it to be absolutely consistent.”

Even if Bice’s bill does become a law, Oklahomans shouldn’t expect New Belgium to cross into the state the next day. Krueger said the company is brewing at capacity now and is building a brewery in Nashville, Tennessee, to help meet demand. It is expected to open in 2016.

“We do have a list of states that are next in line (for our products),” he said. “With that legislation, it would help Oklahoma move up on that priority list. There are a few other things to consider, such as distributor laws and having to go through a (liquor) broker. Refrigeration is not the only concern, but it would go a long way in helping us look at Oklahoma in general.”

Allowing liquor stores to add refrigeration will be no small feat, however, and Bice is ready for the battle.

“It will be a challenge to convince some of the House members that this is a positive impact,” she said. “I am hoping they can see the overwhelming support of Oklahomans and go ahead and hear the bill.”

State Rep. James Lockhart, D-Heavener, said via email the bill would not have his support. He historically votes against matters that increase access to alcohol, including the bill – now law – that allows breweries to offer house-made beer samples.

“I had several friends from high school and college die in alcohol-related traffic incidents,” he said. “I generally vote against any legislation that I feel would put more drunk drivers on our roads.”

If the law is passed, liquor store owners would be faced with the decision about adding some type of refrigeration system. A 10-by-12-foot cubic cold storage cooler can cost $7,000 minimum. A walk-in cooler can cost $8,000 to $10,000, with the price going up with size.

Oklahoma Refrigerated Services Manager Jim Denton said he doesn’t know how some liquor stores can put in a cooler because they have a small space.

“A lot of walk-ins are made into the building, so they might not have room for one,” he said.

Nonetheless, Bice said the change would benefit the state’s growing craft beer industry.

“I have received emails and calls from hundreds of Oklahomans that are overwhelmingly in favor of this legislation,” she said. “If nothing else, we’re starting the discussion about changing the laws.”

[bille]

That bill doesn't allow brewery sales for on premise consumption so having an actual taproom is still out and brewpubs are still limited to 4% beers.

I can see some pushback from small liquor stores on refrigeration but not much, I think most either want to offer it or they don't care at all. I bet there are some that still aren't aware of the proposed legislation. As far as 424 goes the biggest opposition will be the wholesalers, none of those guys want to lose out on their cut. Worse, breweries would likely be scared to publicly support it out of fear of being ostracized.