OG&E Energy Center

[warreng88]

I don't think you can find any place where I have said that. Not to pick on you , but this is starting to be a recurring theme on OKCTalk where people aren't reading what is being written. OKC does have an over reliance on the automobile and at some point we need to make the move to more efficient modes of transportation, but at the same time we need to get much better with parking garage placement, size, designs, and street interaction. Using the same strategy that gave us the Santa Fe garage is not the answer - and that is exactly what Clayco and Hines are doing. They are literally being dragged into the future kicking and screaming. The rest of the world has solved these problems already but some people think OKC is so unique that it has nothing to learn from any other place in the world. The only thing better than learning from one's own mistakes, is to learn from other people's mistakes. OKC doesn't do this though because they think they are the first city in the history of the world to ever experience these problems.

Thanks for the non-jerky reply. My apologies. I guess I was thinking of someone else and I have no idea who it is. I do remember someone constantly talking about not building parking garages downtown as it promotes sprawl and also on newsok.com comments. I could have sworn it was you, but cannot find any evidence to support that claim. In regards to your second line, I usually do read what is being written and respond directly to that, this time, I just kind of went off past postings which turned out to be incorrect.

[Laramie]

All I'll say is Harold Hamm was on the front row for Devon's dedication. If any local company could do a building comparable to Devon, it would be CLR. Not sure it'll happen, but they would be the most likely candidate, IMO.

Harold Hamm will have to get this divorce situation behind him before Continental Resources make any future plans for building something comparable to Devon. This company has the potential to add another 50-60 story skyscraper to the OKC downtown horizon.

[Just the facts]

Thanks for the non-jerky reply. My apologies. I guess I was thinking of someone else and I have no idea who it is. I do remember someone constantly talking about not building parking garages downtown as it promotes sprawl and also on newsok.com comments. I could have sworn it was you, but cannot find any evidence to support that claim. In regards to your second line, I usually do read what is being written and respond directly to that, this time, I just kind of went off past postings which turned out to be incorrect.

No worries. I don't keep a dossier on everyone either and there are many times I can swear I read something but can't find it later (sometimes even when I wrote it). The thing is, OKC just needs to get better at these things and expect developers and architects to get better at their jobs. Just because we are OKC doesn't mean we get the new guy in the office designing our stuff for us - and a lot of time I think that is what happens. Then it doesn't help that we get the usual suspects acting as corporate apologist over it. If we want better we have to demand better, because it sure as hell isn't going happen any other way.

[warreng88]

The problem with Hamm is he is unapologetically frugal. My brother worked there for a year and he said they still had paper files for the wells. Devon, CHK, Sandrdige, etc all have them scanned in on a database where anyone can access it, if needed. My brother finally got fed up with fighting and got another job. I told him all it would take is hiring ten temp workers for nine hour days for a few months and everything would be scanned in and easier to access. He said HH didn't care and didn't want to spend the money hiring people and the technology to do so.

[soondoc]

My point to the "One Power Tower" is that until at least 2-3 more buildings go up that are at least 65-75 percent as tall, it will continue to like the Devon and the 7 dwarfs. Sorry, but that is the plain truth. I never said we need to build another Devon or one taller. What I can't wrap my brain around is why we can't get a 32-35 story building that will stand out and have more of an impact on the skyline. It's only a few more floors, so I just don't get it. Until the happens, OKC's skyline will continue to look like this.

[HOT ROD]

Normally, I would agree with Kerry and Spartan concerning the residential development fronting the park. It does help a tower to front the park, in general. I do agree that a better use of the site, such as OGE at Hudson/Sheridan then Residential at Hudson/Cali then you could even repeat this on the other side along Walker for a serious dense development all on-top of a retail and parking podium. This would allow another dense development for the 'south' block and would be the most ideal for a CBD type development.

However, the more I think about it - it may not be so bad to have the north residential a half block away. After all, this is CBD so it doesn't make sense to just put up residential towers everywhere when office will always take precedent. If MGB was the center of downtown (and not the CBD) then I'd agree moreso with Kerry. This is especially true given that this is OKC and we likely wont have hyper-dense highrise development in the next 50 years.

There may be a compromise and it goes back to my suggestion that OKC develop a master plan. If that plan included a highrise residential district or area of downtown then there could be requirements such that the densest premium residential development take place near, say?, Central Park. (ala NYC or even OKC's new park). Myriad Gardens? While it is a wonderful downtown park, I think it functions more as a CBD style park rather than THE main park for downtown. This is why I hate the way DowntownOKC calls MGB/Cox/Chesapeake as the Arts District when that area really is the CBD without any towers YET. MGB really is the heart of the CBD and this will prove even more true when Central Park does get built and MGB is surrounded moreso by office highrises. ...

One other thought, is that the North Residential tower could add to the vitality of the neighbouring school. I like most others, am very disappointed with all of the parking garages next to the school - but the Residential tower could be a breath of fresh air for that section and certainly would lend a hand in filling up the streetside retail.

I wonder if there is time for this all to get hashed out? If such a master plan were in-place then it could serve as yet another but much more significant tool toward protecting existing buildings by forcing developers to in-fill when the opportunity exists rather than demolition to force the site meet your needs.

One question I have is, would it have been a better use of the Stage Center site if the school was built there (in a more urban form and perhaps retaining some of the Stage Center) and OGE built on the school's current lot? Again, a Master Plan could be useful in developing OKC in a way that preserves the city AS A CITY and might provide the city with leverage when going against the Larry Nichols' vision of what downtown is supposed to be. (no offense to Larry, I just wish he and others would learn more about urban development and the tie such projects result in critical mass is best accomplished by transit rather than so many parking garages).

[BDP]

I do remember someone constantly talking about not building parking garages downtown as it promotes sprawl and also on newsok.com comments. I could have sworn it was you, but cannot find any evidence to support that claim.

I'm not sure if it's an issue of not building parking garages as it is the taking of entire blocks and making them mostly parking garages. It really just makes no sense. Clayco and Hines wanted these lots because they felt they were the best in the city, even more so than the tons of undeveloped and underdeveloped land downtown. So, if the best land in the city is only good enough to be mostly parking garages, then our real estate must really suck.

[Motley]

The Williams tower (Transco) in the Galleria area of Houston is the lone giant on that side of Houston. Haven't been to Houston in ages, but I don't think any other building around there comes close.

I was disappointed that the 499 W Sheridan tower wasn't 500-550ft. Seems that would be the proper height next to Devon.

It would enhance downtown to have a tower on the east section of the FNC block (the part east of the garage section of the FNC) that matches the height of FNC tower but is a modern interpretation of it. It would add mass and density to the core of the downtown buildings and provide an offset to Devon and the new towers on the west side of downtown.

[OkieNate]

The Williams tower (Transco) in the Galleria area of Houston is the lone giant on that side of Houston. Haven't been to Houston in ages, but I don't think any other building around there comes close.

I was disappointed that the 499 W Sheridan tower wasn't 500-550ft. Seems that would be the proper height next to Devon.

It would enhance downtown to have a tower on the east section of the FNC block (the part east of the garage section of the FNC) that matches the height of FNC tower but is a modern interpretation of it. It would add mass and density to the core of the downtown buildings and provide an offset to Devon and the new towers on the west side of downtown.

I was also going to use this as an example. I've been there within the month it still towers over anything around it. [

[DocThunder]

Harold Hamm will have to get this divorce situation behind him before Continental Resources make any future plans for building something comparable to Devon. This company has the potential to add another 50-60 story skyscraper to the OKC downtown horizon.

I don't think there is a lot of "action items" left on this one. The only thing he has to do is write that check and then she runs to the bank to cash that $979 M.

[AP]

He's already written the check and she cashed it.

[Spartan]

Hunsucker Legal just completed their building just West of the school, we now have Clayco to the East. I think you must be kidding us here ?

Usually urban schools are surrounded with like, urban housing

[Spartan]

All I'll say is Harold Hamm was on the front row for Devon's dedication. If any local company could do a building comparable to Devon, it would be CLR. Not sure it'll happen, but they would be the most likely candidate, IMO.

You mean the only ones left... #holdingyourbreath

[TheTravellers]

I don't think you can find any place where I have said that. Not to pick on you , but this is starting to be a recurring theme on OKCTalk where people aren't reading what is being written. OKC does have an over reliance on the automobile and at some point we need to make the move to more efficient modes of transportation, but at the same time we need to get much better with parking garage placement, size, designs, and street interaction. Using the same strategy that gave us the Santa Fe garage is not the answer - and that is exactly what Clayco and Hines are doing. They are literally being dragged into the future kicking and screaming. The rest of the world has solved these problems already but some people think OKC is so unique that it has nothing to learn from any other place in the world. The only thing better than learning from one's own mistakes, is to learn from other people's mistakes. OKC doesn't do this though because they think they are the first city in the history of the world to ever experience these problems.

Just wanted to second this emotion, getting so tired of OKC thinking this way (crosswalk paint, wooden bridge warping, figuring out how to discover basements under office buildings, etc.), was thinking this exact same thing reading a newsok.com article about police body cameras (trying to figure out privacy concerns, when officers turn them on, how to comply with records requests, how to store the data, etc.). Other PDs have done this already, pull your heads out of your a$$es and go to the places (or email or call or videoconference) that have ALREADY DONE THESE THINGS and incorporate that research into how *we* will do it. Sorry about that detour, rant over...

[turnpup]

Never say never. In 2008, what would have you have thought if someone told you a 50 story, at the time, 65 story, tower was going to be built downtown OKC?

I am not trying to say an 85 story tower is going to be proposed and if one does, I will make love to a parking meter if it were to happen, but the point is, Devon is not the official tower of OKC.

Which generation parking meter would it be? Would this be, say, a 40-something year old parking meter--where you have to insert coin and manually crank the dial--rather than one of the new models that accept credit cards and require only minimal button-pushing?

[Plutonic Panda]

Which generation parking meter would it be? Would this be, say, a 40-something year old parking meter--where you have to insert coin and manually crank the dial--rather than one of the new models that accept credit cards and require only minimal button-pushing?

Ah come on the answer to that question is obvious. ;p lol

[catch22]

I am very happy to see the improvements, especially keeping California Ave open. That is a huge step forward.

[soonerguru]

He's already written the check and she cashed it.

And she is still challenging it in court. Cashing the check does not mean her case is closed.

[coov23]

Are things looking bleak for the other towers on this site?

[Just the facts]

Are things looking bleak for the other towers on this site?

That seems to be the general direction yes. In truth, this is starting to look a lot like the old Mercy site that went through multiple developers who could never live up to their proposals. The Stage Center site started out with 3 buildings (Office, residential, hotel) and Clayco was so bullish on it they wanted to develop the south lot with 2 more buildings. Now they are just down to a confirmed 1 building and parking garage on the Stage Center lot and seem to be getting wishy-washy on what will actually be built on the south lot (after all, the south tower was spec and the south residential tower was only going to be built if the north residential ...that they might not even build now... was successful. This entire proposal is alive because it was already announced but they would never propose this right now.

[AP]

And she is still challenging it in court. Cashing the check does not mean her case is closed.

I didn't realize that. Everything I had read previously pointed to her not being able to appeal since she accepted benefits. My bad.

[David]

How in the world are they getting wishy-washy on anything involved in this? From the moment we saw the initial Clayco plans we knew that it was going to be a staged construction process, so it makes reasonable sense that the more recently released detailed plans would be consist of the first stage. Sure, it's mildly disappointing that the north residential tower isn't in this stage, but I would be far more concerned about it not being built if the first floor plans didn't include support for it.



It makes zero sense that the north-west corner of the plans would look like that if the tower is out of the picture. One of the images even calls out how much of the parking is for the residential tower and how much for the commercial tower:



If anything this just means we have a development that if built will be stacking a tower on top of it's associated parking, and given all the discussion we've had on that issue in the 499 thread I would have said that that was a good thing.

We haven't seen detailed plans for the south lot, but I'd be surprised if we see anything more than we already have for it before they officially win the OCURA process. Why would they bother to announce anything more when they might not win the bid?

[Just the facts]

They already won the bid for the south lot which included a spec office building in a declining market and a residential tower predicated on the first residential tower (which has been moved to 'future' state) doing well. As recently as 45 days ago the expectation put forth by the developer was that all these towers would be under construction simultaneously. The very idea of that seems laughable now.

As for the parking; if parking is the cash-cow 499 claims it is then it kind of makes the whole thing a little dubious to me. Is the objective here really just to build parking garages? I hope not.

[David]

My mistake, I was thinking more of the TIF negotiations. 8 AM posting isn't always a good idea.

[Pete]

Adios, La Luna: Day wanes for downtown OKC Mexican restaurant
By: Molly M. Fleming The Journal RecordJanuary 21, 20150

OKLAHOMA CITY – The La Luna Mexican Cafe sign displays the words “Tick Tock.” Owner Cindy Cabrera knows just how much time she has left, and it’s less than 100 days.
La Luna, 409 W. Reno Ave., will open its doors for the last time on April 11. The last regular-season weekend home game for the Oklahoma City Thunder is Friday, April 10, and Cabrera said she didn’t want to miss the crowd or Saturday night festivities.

The restaurant that originated in downtown Oklahoma City opened at SW Fourth Street and Walker Avenue in 1968 and was owned by Cabrera’s stepfather. She has worked in it since she was 16 years old.

“It will be weird not driving downtown every day,” she said.

The restaurant, which opened April 1, 1988, attracts a lunch crowd filled with customers in suits or jeans. Everyone feels welcome in the dimly lit spot where salsa, tortilla chips, queso and fresh-made tortillas are on the table before the customer cracks open a menu.

“We were here when no one else was downtown,” she said. “It’s like my third child. My son – who is my third child – was born after the restaurant was opened, so this really is my third child.”

The Festival of the Arts was downtown by 1988, and the event is important to the restaurateur. La Luna’s walls are lined with posters from the spring celebration.
“I’m going to miss the arts festival, but it will be nice to be closed to enjoy this festival and not work it,” she said.

She will miss her customers as well, she said. While she may not know them all by name, she knows them by their order numbers. She’s been known to yell those numbers at customers, as if she were calling their names.

La Luna’s corner at Reno and Hudson avenues is part of 3.15 acres mostly owned by the Oklahoma City Urban Renewal Authority. It will be developed by Clayco Inc., which is also creating the OGE Energy Corp. plaza on the north half of the block. The site was the former home of Stage Center.

Clayco plans to build two more towers on the southern parcel, one for office use and another for residential. First, however, the company wants to complete the OGE Energy tower. Larry Chapman with Clayco Realty Group said during the January Downtown Design Review Committee meeting that he expects the OGE tower construction to start in April and occupancy is slated for early 2017.

With new towers going up, the La Luna building will have to come down, but that’s not what prompted the decision to close, Cabrera said. She knew her time would come as she watched the landscape change downtown. She started thinking about her next step about five years ago, when she was operating the downtown restaurant and a place on Campus Corner in Norman. She closed the Norman store in 2001 and opened a Newcastle location in 2012. She said she often sees longtime Oklahoma City customers at the southern location.

Yet, Oklahoma City hasn’t seen the last of La Luna. Cabrera has a food truck that she plans to bring to Bleu Garten and other hot spots. With so many friends in the Oklahoma City restaurant business, she plans to make an appearance in their kitchens as well. She will also be seen more regularly in Newcastle, where her daughter runs a La Luna.
“I’m going to kick back for a while, and then go play with (my friends in other restaurants),” she said.