OG&E Energy Center

[soondoc]

The OG&E building although nice, looks like a miniature in relation to the Devon tower. The lack of any other tower even approaching Devons height to me still makes the limited DT skyline look out of proportion

I agree and have the same thing. If these all get developed, it will help some to balance things out a little bit since their is basically nothing to the west of Devon. I stand by my statement that I made in another thread that OKC is still going to be the "One Power Tower" city. Nothing else even comes close and they all look like dwarfs in comparison which I think makes it look absolutely weird.

[PhiAlpha]

I agree and have the same thing. If these all get developed, it will help some to balance things out a little bit since their is basically nothing to the west of Devon. I stand by my statement that I made in another thread that OKC is still going to be the "One Power Tower" city. Nothing else even comes close and they all look like dwarfs in comparison which I think makes it look absolutely weird.

So does that mean you want the OG&E Center to be taller?

[NWOKCGuy]

One Power Tower city.... NYC everyone.

[Plutonic Panda]

One Power Tower city.... NYC everyone.

NYC isn't the best example though. I think they are getting some more buildings that will be closer to height to the new trade center. Their skyline isn't that unbalanced though.

[NWOKCGuy]

The difference in height between Freedom Tower and 432 Park Avenue is greater than the difference between Devon and Chase.

[Plutonic Panda]

The difference in height between Freedom Tower and 432 Park Avenue is greater than the difference between Devon and Chase.

I didn't realize that. Aren't they building some new super-talls though?

[adaniel]

I agree and have the same thing. If these all get developed, it will help some to balance things out a little bit since their is basically nothing to the west of Devon. I stand by my statement that I made in another thread that OKC is still going to be the "One Power Tower" city. Nothing else even comes close and they all look like dwarfs in comparison which I think makes it look absolutely weird.

At this point, who cares (besides you, of course)?

Devon was built to be the tower, the one architecturally significant building that is recognizable and will symoblize OKC. It does that. At most the OGE Center and 499 Sheridan have been designed to compliment it, not to rival it or do anything else to "even out" the skyline.

Until they were destroyed, the World Trade Center dwarfed everything else in Lower Manhattan. The new 1 WTC does the same. Up the road in Midtown, the Empire State Building towers over most buildings, only recently being rivaled by a handful of ultraluxe condo builings. OKC is not New York , but Devon is by far the tallest building out of of any metro our size. It will not be rivaled anytime soon for this fact alone.

You REALLY just need to let it go.

[Plutonic Panda]

Devon was built to be the tower, the one architecturally significant building that is recognizable and will symoblize OKC. It does that. At most the OGE Center and 499 Sheridan have been designed to compliment it, not to rival it or do anything else to "even out" the skyline.

Where else has that been said then from a couple posters on this site? You mean to tell me if an 85 story energy tower were proposed tomorrow, it would be denied because Devon is supposed to be the tower of OKC?

[NWOKCGuy]

Yes. Well 432 Park is currently under construction but it's topped out so I included it. Nordstrom Tower I believe is about to start construction and it will be around the same height as Freedom.

[hoya]

Where else has that been said then from a couple posters on this site? You mean to tell me if an 85 story energy tower were proposed tomorrow, it would be denied because Devon is supposed to be the tower of OKC?

No, it wouldn't be denied. But who is proposing to build an 85 story energy tower? Something like that isn't likely to be proposed any time soon. Devon built theirs with the knowledge that they would probably remain the tallest building in the city for the next 30 years.

[Just the facts]

I like those parking garages. Wish they would build some here.

Well there will never be anything like that in OKC unless the City force developers to adopt modern solutions.

[warreng88]

Well there will never be anything like that in OKC unless the City force developers to adopt modern solutions.

Wait, I thought the solution was to not have any parking in DT OKC, at least that is what you have been saying for the past several months.

[adaniel]

Where else has that been said then from a couple posters on this site? You mean to tell me if an 85 story energy tower were proposed tomorrow, it would be denied because Devon is supposed to be the tower of OKC?

Larry Nichols stated that he wanted an "iconic" building that would put OKC on the map. I can't find it but it's out there.

I can't answer your question, because the possibility of an 85 story building in OKC in the next 30 years is effectively zero. And the possibility of anything as tall as Devon in the same time period isn't much higher. As it stands now, the Devon Tower is the tallest builing in the country that is located in a metro area of less than 2 million.

The fact that it was pulled off here is in itself a feat, one I am disappointed more people don't appreciate.

[OkieNate]

Larry Nichols stated that he wanted an "iconic" building that would put OKC on the map. I can't find it but it's out there.

I can't answer your question, because the possibility of an 85 story building in OKC in the next 30 years is effectively zero. And the possibility of anything as tall as Devon in the same time period isn't much higher. As it stands now, the Devon Tower is the tallest builing in the country that is located in a metro area of less than 2 million.

The fact that it was pulled off here is in itself a feat, one I am disappointed more people don't appreciate.

[Just the facts]

Wait, I thought the solution was to not have any parking in DT OKC, at least that is what you have been saying for the past several months.

I don't think you can find any place where I have said that. Not to pick on you , but this is starting to be a recurring theme on OKCTalk where people aren't reading what is being written. OKC does have an over reliance on the automobile and at some point we need to make the move to more efficient modes of transportation, but at the same time we need to get much better with parking garage placement, size, designs, and street interaction. Using the same strategy that gave us the Santa Fe garage is not the answer - and that is exactly what Clayco and Hines are doing. They are literally being dragged into the future kicking and screaming. The rest of the world has solved these problems already but some people think OKC is so unique that it has nothing to learn from any other place in the world. The only thing better than learning from one's own mistakes, is to learn from other people's mistakes. OKC doesn't do this though because they think they are the first city in the history of the world to ever experience these problems.

[Plutonic Panda]

No, it wouldn't be denied. But who is proposing to build an 85 story energy tower? Something like that isn't likely to be proposed any time soon. Devon built theirs with the knowledge that they would probably remain the tallest building in the city for the next 30 years.

Never say never. In 2008, what would have you have thought if someone told you a 50 story, at the time, 65 story, tower was going to be built downtown OKC?

I am not trying to say an 85 story tower is going to be proposed and if one does, I will make love to a parking meter if it were to happen, but the point is, Devon is not the official tower of OKC.

[Plutonic Panda]

Larry Nichols stated that he wanted an "iconic" building that would put OKC on the map. I can't find it but it's out there.

I can't answer your question, because the possibility of an 85 story building in OKC in the next 30 years is effectively zero. And the possibility of anything as tall as Devon in the same time period isn't much higher. As it stands now, the Devon Tower is the tallest builing in the country that is located in a metro area of less than 2 million.

The fact that it was pulled off here is in itself a feat, one I am disappointed more people don't appreciate.

Again, what was the possibility of OKC getting a 55 story tower in 2008? I highly doubt we are getting an 85 story tower anytime soon, but that wasn't my point. My point was, regardless of him saying he wanted it to be iconic, which most developers want their building to be, doesn't mean he will publicly declare the Devon tower to be the supreme overlook of downtown.

[Just the facts]

Never say never. In 2008, what would have you have thought if someone told you a 50 story, at the time, 65 story, tower was going to be built downtown OKC?

I am not trying to say an 85 story tower is going to be proposed and if one does, I will make love to a parking meter if it were to happen, but the point is, Devon is not the official tower of OKC.

In 2008 the chance that a 65 story would be built turned out to be 0%. Alas, you do pose an interesting point though. I would be willing to bet that if a non-Devon entity proposed something taller it would be met with resistance. Remember, Sandridge cleared 5 building to 'improve sight lines' for people working on the first 5 floors, so we know how important sight lines are.

[Plutonic Panda]

Wait, I thought the solution was to not have any parking in DT OKC, at least that is what you have been saying for the past several months.

I don't think JTF is opposed to parking in general, just masses of parking garages for people from suburbia to park and then leave.

[Just the facts]

I don't think JTF is opposed to parking in general, just masses of parking garages for people from suburbia to park and then leave.

One can go back in this thread and see how exactly I would have built on-site parking. The garage would be taller with a smaller footprint with very little street frontage.

[BDP]

Just Because You Can't Find a Place to Park Doesn't Mean There Aren't Way Too Many Parking Spots - CityLab

The worst part about using all this land for parking is that it severely lessens the potential economic impact from these properties. Clayco is at least entertaining (bluffing?) the idea of building on the garage. I'm not sure Hines is aware that it's even possible.

[Just the facts]

Just Because You Can't Find a Place to Park Doesn't Mean There Aren't Way Too Many Parking Spots - CityLab

The worst part about using all this land for parking is that it severely lessens the potential economic impact from these properties. Clayco is at least entertaining (bluffing?) the idea of building on the garage. I'm not sure Hines is aware that it's even possible.

If you look at what Hines said, they expect the parking garage to be a profit center for them. It is almost as if the garage is the economic engine of the development and the office tower is the loss-leader. You know what would be interesting, since downtown doesn't have minimum parking requirements I wonder how many parking space they would be required to have if the exemption wasn't in place. My guess is they are building way more parking than would be required under city ordinances. The irony is that the alternate zoning was put in place so businesses didn't have to build so many spaces.

[Bellaboo]

In 2008 the chance that a 65 story would be built turned out to be 0%. Alas, you do pose an interesting point though. I would be willing to bet that if a non-Devon entity proposed something taller it would be meet with resistance. Remember, Sandridge cleared 5 building to 'improve sight lines' for people working on the first 5 floors, so we know how important sight lines are.

All I'll say is Harold Hamm was on the front row for Devon's dedication. If any local company could do a building comparable to Devon, it would be CLR. Not sure it'll happen, but they would be the most likely candidate, IMO.

[BDP]

If you look at what Hines said, they expect the parking garage to be a profit center for them. It is almost as if the garage is the economic engine of the development and the office tower is the loss-leader.

I don't doubt it will be profitable for them, but it won't have near the broader economic impact that developing the rest of the block for a higher use would. It's more of a huge opportunity cost than it is a total loss.

[Plutonic Panda]

One can go back in this thread and see how exactly I would have built on-site parking. The garage would be taller with a smaller footprint with very little street frontage.

I remember the post.