BOK Park Plaza

[Plutonic Panda]

Every OKC millenial that I know, many of whom have been vital in OKC's renaissance, are really disheartened by this. As a millenial who always hoped to move back to OKC, I'm not really sure I'm interested anymore. It's not just that the buildings are coming down, but the corrupt process. I thought OKC was a city moving in a direction that I could believe in, but the city government is clearly more oligarchical than democratic. It's shameful to make dishonest arguments as were made by those who really make decisions in OKC. And as Pete has meticulously shown, this is not the only area where decisions are being made behind closed doors without concern for how it's done.

Wow, I think I am technically a millennial and I really don't care much. They could have saved the buildings, but whatever. We're getting a new and taller building, so that is a plus, It is guaranteed to get built.

I do wish we could have saved them, but hey, it is what it is.

[betts]

I don't mind this. I have yet to see more than 3 people use that bike lane since it's been there and I am around there all the time. It is hardly used and doesn't need to be there. Bicycles are an outdated form of transportation other than joy riding and it's best to do shared lanes or you can be like me and ride the trails for the most part.

Puhlease. Your ideas are the ones that are outdated. Have you seen a picture of Beijing's air quality recently - a dense grey fog. The worst thing that happened in China was abandonment of the bicycle for cars. I know a lot of people who prefer riding bikes or walking and we're spitting in their faces.

[Urban Pioneer]

if only those friends for a better boulevard brats would've left their mini highway alone....

lol

[TheTravellers]

... Bicycles are an outdated form of transportation other than joy riding ...

Sorry, but you're wrong.

[Paseofreak]

Dang Plu, open that young little mind of yours.

[Tigerguy]

Bicycles are an outdated form of transportation other than joy riding and it's best to do shared lanes or you can be like me and ride the trails for the most part.

As a fan of the airplane, I must say that I have bad news for your antiquated and crumbling interstate highway system...

Anywho, as for the events of today...is anybody really surprised? With some of the shenanigans we've seen from city leaders (to say nothing of the state and the feds), I doubt the outcome would be any different. I'm not necessarily saying to throw up our hands and wear sackcloth and ashes, but it'll take fresh, invigorated, engaged blood on both sides on the ballot box...and a fair amount of time. This city may not be there yet, but it would take a quantum leap to get to the ideal. So while it's unfortunate that the buildings will go, I hope they make the new stuff as engaging to downtown as possible.

However, if it should get to the point that I get really fed up with the city, I'm young enough that I can make good on a threat to move out.

[soonerguru]

Out of curiosity, I researched the ages of the Downtown Design Review Committee:

Betsy Brunsteter, 57
Gigi Faulkner, 57
Chuck Ainsworth, 67
Ike Akinwande, 31
Connie Scothorn, 59
Richard Tanenbaum, 68

Average age is 56.5; all but one are over 57.

Why are we putting developers on this committee? Isn't that like appointing the fox to guard the hen house?

[soonerguru]

I don't mind this. I have yet to see more than 3 people use that bike lane since it's been there and I am around there all the time. It is hardly used and doesn't need to be there. Bicycles are an outdated form of transportation other than joy riding and it's best to do shared lanes or you can be like me and ride the trails for the most part.

Don't be a troll. This is a definite troll post.

[soonerguru]

Ya know.... I wonder if we ever were to move Greyhound to Santa Fe Station, if they would give us that sign. It seems absolutely ludicrous that they would hang onto it and incorporate it into a modern, International Style building as some sort of tombstone. I mean, why would anyone do that? Simply adding insult to injury for some people.

I agree completely. Infuriating and patronizing and a vivid example of how much these people are clueless to the values of preservation. It's as if they are waving these signs at people as tokens. How they think having a major, visible intersection in our downtown framed by two massive parking garages is a remotely acceptable idea boggles the mind. `

[soonerguru]

#whatwouldjeffspecksay?

[Spartan]

OKC is doing some really, really bad things right now. The price of oil is not the biggest threat to this city's continued development. We are squandering almost all of our urban design opportunities. We need this historic building fabric, especially while there are still so many surface lots everywhere.

We are also heavily-subsidizing this development. Just like we did the Stage Center demolitions. Which is amazing when you recall that we allowed the OKC Foundation's demo permit to go through so that they could make a speculative land deal, because we did not want to subsidize preserving Stage Center. The subsidy that would have required pales in comparison to 499 Sheridan and OG+E Center.

This is becoming insane. Not only do we lack the backbone to promote better development, but even when subsidies are on the table, we have no interest in bargaining for the best development. The political process is too far out of balance to have legitimacy. When you have a bad record on backing up urban design guidelines, cities risk losing ground against legal attacks.

[krisb]

Once again, the Planning department's recommendation was dismissed. Not much has changed since Russell Claus left. The Chamber and Larry Nichols own this city.

[Just the facts]

#whatwouldjeffspecksay?

He would say - vote with your feet.

[ljbab728]

OKC is doing some really, really bad things right now. The price of oil is not the biggest threat to this city's continued development. We are squandering almost all of our urban design opportunities. We need this historic building fabric, especially while there are still so many surface lots everywhere.

We are also heavily-subsidizing this development. Just like we did the Stage Center demolitions. Which is amazing when you recall that we allowed the OKC Foundation's demo permit to go through so that they could make a speculative land deal, because we did not want to subsidize preserving Stage Center. The subsidy that would have required pales in comparison to 499 Sheridan and OG+E Center.

This is becoming insane. Not only do we lack the backbone to promote better development, but even when subsidies are on the table, we have no interest in bargaining for the best development. The political process is too far out of balance to have legitimacy. When you have a bad record on backing up urban design guidelines, cities risk losing ground against legal attacks.

Spartan, what subsidy for 499 Sheridan are you referring to?

[Plutonic Panda]

Puhlease. Your ideas are the ones that are outdated. Have you seen a picture of Beijing's air quality recently - a dense grey fog. The worst thing that happened in China was abandonment of the bicycle for cars. I know a lot of people who prefer riding bikes or walking and we're spitting in their faces.

That is incorrect.

[dankrutka]

I am 26 and couldn't be happier about all this being approved. Would have liked for them to keep the buildings, but what is going up will be a major upgrade from what we previously had.

Reading all the negativity from posters here about the buildings coming down, I was curious as to if I in the minority in reference to wanting the buildings to come down for this development. Over the past two weeks, I asked 23 people that I knew, ages ranging from 23 to 56 years old, if they were in favor of demolishing the current buildings for the new development. Every single person, ALL 23 OF THEM, were in favor of the demo's if this developments was to be built. I realize its just a small sample size, but what it told me is what i suspected before. Most people are excited about the development, only a small portion of the community is opposed to it. It just so happens, that the people who are against it, are more likely to voice their opinion.

Sad to see them go, but looking forward to the development and what its going to bring to downtown.

How would you compare the level of education of the people you polled and the people on this board in regards to urban issues? Because I could find 23 people in the stands at an OU game and I bet none of them could run an offense.

[Bellaboo]

How would you compare the level of education of the people you polled and the people on this board in regards to urban issues? Because I could find 23 people in the stands at an OU game and I bet none of them could run an offense.

You couldn't find 11 on the field that could run an offense.....lol

[BrettM2]

That is incorrect.

So having tens of millions of people driving and causing the worst air pollution in the world is a good thing?

[Bellaboo]

So having tens of millions of people driving and causing the worst air pollution in the world is a good thing?

Not to get to far off here, but the worst air pollution in the world is in China, and it's not caused by cars.....

[Plutonic Panda]

Not to get to far off here, but the worst air pollution in the world is in China, and it's not caused by cars.....

Thank you. I have actually been very fascinated with China and as such been studying it. I'm not fascinated with it in a good way either.

With all due respect to Betts, cars contribute VERY little to air pollution and China has an extremely large network of bikers. There are 3x more people that bike in China daily than people that live in the US.

China did not abandon bikes and their air pollution, which is horrible, is not being caused by cars.

[Plutonic Panda]

So having tens of millions of people driving and causing the worst air pollution in the world is a good thing?

Dude, go look at PM2.5 and then go see how Beijing ranks. They have the strictest emissions laws in China. It is NOT solely caused by cars. You're out of your mind. There are so many people that bike to China it is almost a different world. To say that the air pollution is caused by cars is being dishonest. That is like me saying the drop in oil prices was caused by two new rigs that opened up near Brazil and not even mentioning how Saudi Arabia ramped up their oil production.

The main source of air pollution is caused by the coal power plants with cars being the second most contributing factor.

I'm just in shock that people on here are going to desperation of trying to point fingers to China insinuating that we are going to become like them because of wanting to remove a bike lane THAT HARDLY ANYONE USES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!! and add a lane to a road.

Dallas has very clear air most of the time, and it has sprawling highways. London has bad air pollution sometimes. Tokyo has bad air pollution. NYC has bad air pollution sometimes. I mean why are we going to single out cities that are expanding in car transit.

[UnFrSaKn]

499 W Sheridan - Final Thoughts of the Day | News OK

[SouthsideSooner]

Dude, go look at PM2.5 and then go see how Beijing ranks. They have the strictest emissions laws in China. It is NOT solely caused by cars. You're out of your mind. There are so many people that bike to China it is almost a different world. To say that the air pollution is caused by cars is being dishonest. That is like me saying the drop in oil prices was caused by two new rigs that opened up near Brazil and not even mentioning how Saudi Arabia ramped up their oil production.

The main source of air pollution is caused by the coal power plants with cars being the second most contributing factor.

I'm am just in shock that people on here are going to desperation of trying to point fingers to China insinuating that we are going to become like them because of wanting to remove a bike lane THAT HARDLY ANYONE USES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!! and add a lane to a road.

Dallas has very clear air most of the time, and it has sprawling highways. London has bad air pollution sometimes. Tokyo has bad air pollution. NYC has bad air pollution sometimes. I mean why are we going to single out cities that are expanding in car transit.

+1

That's the funniest thing I've read all day... Touche

[hoya]

Good day for the progress of OKC

And now you're on ignore, troll.

[SouthsideSooner]

499 W Sheridan - Final Thoughts of the Day | News OK

As usual, excellent take on this from Steve... Fair and balanced