Oklahoma liquor laws

[jerrywall]

n fact Utah is probably the only other state that can come close to matching Oklahoma when it comes to archaic, restrictive laws designed to enforce the moral standard of the church.

I think that's a stretch.

[Bunty]

Good point. The big difference I would say is that Massachussetts' Puritan history predates Oklahoma's statehood by centuries. The one state that can be compared to Oklahoma is Utah with it's Mormon heritage. In fact Utah is probably the only other state that can come close to matching Oklahoma when it comes to archaic, restrictive laws designed to enforce the moral standard of the church.

How ironic that Utah was one of the states that ratified the amendment that repealed alcohol prohibition in 1933.

[Bunty]

How did this silly concept of 3.2% beer come about? Was it part of the deal that came with alcohol prohibition in 1919? Then later in the 1930s after prohibition repeal came about, the Oklahoma legislature decided the strongest alcohol that Oklahomans could legally handle was 3.2% beer?

[bchris02]

How ironic that Utah was one of the states that ratified the amendment that repealed alcohol prohibition in 1933.

I didn't realize that. I checked the stats and Oklahoma didn't ratify it.

Has Oklahoma ever supported a single progressive cause throughout all its history?

[bchris02]

How did this silly concept of 3.2% beer come about? Was it part of the deal that came with alcohol prohibition in 1919? Then later in the 1930s after prohibition repeal came about, the Oklahoma legislature decided the strongest alcohol that Oklahomans could legally handle was 3.2% beer?

3.2% beer came from a change made to the Volstead Act in 1933, increasing the national limit for non-intoxicating beverages from 0.5% alcohol to 3.2% by weight prior to the full repeal of prohibition. States then passed similar provisions. Despite Oklahoma not repealing prohibition until 1959, 3.2% beer was legal based on this provision. I believe that when prohibition was finally repealed in Oklahoma, a separate classification was created to control intoxicating beverages separate from 3.2% beer and it remains that way to this day. Some of the restrictions in place today causing headaches for retailers like Costco and Trader Joe's were put into place to prevent the return of the brewery-owned saloons that were dens of vice prior to the 18th Amendment.


Cullen?Harrison Act - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

I don't believe the Volstead Act is still on the books nationally so it would have to be the state law continuing 3.2 beer. Does anyone know if the 3.2% ABW limit is written into the Oklahoma Constitution, or could that limit be increased by the legislature?

The easiest and ideal solution to fix Oklahoma's liquor laws would be to increase the alcohol percentage limit that falls under the laws pertaining to low-point beer. Something as low as 6% ABW would allow most beers, including most craft beers to be sold chilled in grocery stores and on Sundays. Even 5% would allow domestics to sell their real product here and also greatly expand the choices available in grocery stores. Beers like Sam Adams and Guinness could be bought chilled, even at 5%. All of this would assure the current distribution system stays in place.

Increase it to something like 12% and all of a sudden you have all beer and wine in grocery stores, but that's pushing it and I am not sure, if I was a state lawmaker, if I would start with something that ambitious. Shoot for 5% or 6%.

[Bunty]

I didn't realize that. I checked the stats and Oklahoma didn't ratify it.

Has Oklahoma ever supported a single progressive cause throughout all its history?

Oklahoma voters in 1964 rejected right to work, which worked to take the sails out of the country's advancing right to work movement which had been spreading across the states back then, especially in the South.

[Jersey Boss]

I didn't realize that. I checked the stats and Oklahoma didn't ratify it.

Has Oklahoma ever supported a single progressive cause throughout all its history?

Sure the initiative petition was a progressive idea. Read up on Haskell and the proposed state "Sequoyah". There was quite a progressive streak back in rootin- tootin days.

[bluedogok]

The issue I have is how Oklahoma has among the most restrictive laws in the nation in every area of life. If there is a ridiculous blue law on the books anywhere, Oklahoma is one of the few states that has it. It's not like Colorado which has backwards liquor laws (though not as restrictive as Oklahoma) but they also have legal pot. Kansas has restrictive laws for grocery and convenience stores but they have Sunday sales and chilled beer/wine in liquor stores. It's not like Arkansas which has dry counties but also allows certain bars/clubs to stay open until 5AM as well as full strength beer/wine in grocery stores. For a party that is supposed to be about small government, Oklahoma Republicans are sure obsessed with being the moral police and using the full weight of the state to do it.

Your knowledge evidently doesn't go back far enough but I'm sure you are quite a bit younger. I remember "blue laws" for everything but food in the DFW area into the late 70's when Oklahoma City had none but cars and alcohol. Texas still has some like no alcohol sales before noon on Sunday and car lots being closed on Saturday or Sunday.

As I have brought up before, I think the best way to explain why Oklahoma is the way it is goes back to its early stages of settlement. The type of people it largely attracted were probably the Christian right of that era. They were fed up from trying to live with the unrestricted laws on alcohol in some of the neighboring states, especially Missouri. My grandparents, coming from Missouri, settled in rural Oklahoma to farm around the start of statehood in 1907. They never drank and regularly went to church. That was also when alcohol was prohibited in Oklahoma as a state, which surely further attracted the Christian right. Now that it's 2015, I wouldn't be surprised if more people than ever want to move away from Oklahoma, due to the stubbornly archaic way it is. But then I bet if the Oklahoma Christian right people of 1907 were to see what Okalhoma has become today, they would be mighty displeased about it.

I didn't realize that. I checked the stats and Oklahoma didn't ratify it.

Has Oklahoma ever supported a single progressive cause throughout all its history?

Oklahoma had progressive/socialist movement for a lot of its early history, even a Socialist Party officially existed from before statehood and was influential in some parts of the state constitution. Henry Bellmon was the first elected Republican Governor since statehood and that was in 1962. There have been 22 Democrats and 5 Republicans elected governor.

[jerrywall]

Shhh. Don't get in way of the constant anti Oklahoma and Tulsa is so much better than okc rants...

[bluedogok]

Sorry about that...I just have a problem with an incomplete narrative . I do understand that someone not born and raised there and that is younger may not be aware of certain things in the states history. I know there are plenty of gaps in my knowledge and I learn new things from those older than I am on here.

[bille]

The easiest and ideal solution to fix Oklahoma's liquor laws would be to increase the alcohol percentage limit that falls under the laws pertaining to low-point beer. Something as low as 6% ABW would allow most beers, including most craft beers to be sold chilled in grocery stores and on Sundays. Even 5% would allow domestics to sell their real product here and also greatly expand the choices available in grocery stores. Beers like Sam Adams and Guinness could be bought chilled, even at 5%. All of this would assure the current distribution system stays in place.

Increase it to something like 12% and all of a sudden you have all beer and wine in grocery stores, but that's pushing it and I am not sure, if I was a state lawmaker, if I would start with something that ambitious. Shoot for 5% or 6%.

12% ABV wouldn't cover all beer, but most. Either way how is that cap determined? As you stated the 3.2%ABW came into play (via a laughable story btw) with the Cullen-Harrison act that stated anything up to 3.2%ABW/4%ABV were non-intoxicating alcohol, later to be referenced as "low-point". Oklahoma could change to allow grocers and convenience to carry beer {or whatever) up to a certain point or even no cap (yeah right) but I don't think they could change the low-point law for obvious reasons. First off, how would one define "low point" anyway? And second there are the other states that are still using the distinction on some level. Btw, low point/non intoxicating is referenced and defined in Oklahoma Title 37 code.

Texas still has some like no alcohol sales before noon on Sunday and car lots being closed on Saturday or Sunday.

The curfew in Texas that starts at midnight Saturday and runs to Sunday at noon is still in effect.

[bille]

Who will drive Oklahoma alcohol reform? | News OK

This chat seems to indicate there may be a possibility of moving to single-strength beer on the 2016 ballot. This is something I will believe when I see, but it would be awesome news if it did come to pass.

He maintains that the real entity that can drive change is big beer (Anheuser-Busch).

btw, the mention about a "push in 2016" is most likely due to talks with the folks in LOCAL who feel that currently there isn't time/money to get anything in the works for 2015 but the plan is to shoot for 2016.

[onthestrip]

btw, the mention about a "push in 2016" is most likely due to talks with the folks in LOCAL who feel that currently there isn't time/money to get anything in the works for 2015 but the plan is to shoot for 2016.

I think 2016 would be earliest when a petition initiative would be able to go on the ballot. Might be wrong though. And with the small voter participation from November 2014 election, you need far fewer petition signatures to get on the ballot. Im hoping for liquor petitions, marijuana petitions, cigarette smoking petitions, min wage petitions...
It might be best to wait til 2016 anyways, so that these petition drives can be best organized and funded.

[Laramie]

Oklahoma will not change. 'Mother Hen' continued to sit on eggs that weren't fertilized; in essence, they will never hatch.

[jerrywall]

Right! Oklahoma never changes! In fact, we're still a dry state that outlaws liquor... oh.. wait...

[Bunty]

Oklahoma will not change. 'Mother Hen' continued to sit on eggs that weren't fertilized; in essence, they will never hatch.

Surely your grandparents, or great grandparents, thought during the 1950s that Oklahoma would never legalize alcohol. People would remain happy enough as it was with 3.2% beer.

[Bunty]

Well, Massachusetts was settled by Puritans, so I don't hold much stock in the look who came here first theory.

Then it's probably more accurate to say that Oklahoma happened to come to be in a part of the country where the drinking culture was already limited to prohibited, aside from Missouri. Surely from early statehood more people were coming to the state to get rich in oil than to live free from the temptation of alcohol.

[Plutonic Panda]

In the interest of accuracy, yes. And the fact that we're part of 20%, yes again. People regularly act like we're some soft of outlier when it comes to liquor laws. It's not quite like the tattoo laws, where our closes comparison was Iran.

That's fine. If being part of the 20% that are backwards and f'd up when it comes to modern laws is acceptable, then so be it. For me, I think we can do better to give our customers more options. Even if that includes allowing the liquor stores to be, dare I say it, open on Sunday; yes, only more day of the week.

[Bunty]

I don't get the part where liquor stores still can't sell paraphernalia, such as bottle openers. How to they still put up with that nonsense, if they're supposed to be so influential with public alcohol policies?

[Laramie]

Surely your grandparents, or great grandparents, thought during the 1950s that Oklahoma would never legalize alcohol. People would remain happy enough as it was with 3.2% beer.

My grandparents didn't live to see Oklahoma pass 'liquor by the drink.'

[bchris02]

I don't get the part where liquor stores still can't sell paraphernalia, such as bottle openers. How to they still put up with that nonsense, if they're supposed to be so influential with public alcohol policies?

Agree with this. I think a liquor lobby is a factor but it isn't the only factor. A lot of people downplay the role of religion and social conservatism in maintaining the current alcohol laws. Despite the feelings of a majority of Oklahomans, the Republican lawmakers have to pander to the base, and that base would be very upset over more relaxed access to alcohol, would see it as an attack on family values, and therefore their job may be in jeopardy. Once again that isn't the only factor just like the liquor store lobby isn't the only factor. Everything works together to make change very difficult.

[SouthsideSooner]

Agree with this. I think a liquor lobby is a factor but it isn't the only factor. A lot of people downplay the role of religion and social conservatism in maintaining the current alcohol laws. Despite the feelings of a majority of Oklahomans, the Republican lawmakers have to pander to the base, and that base would be very upset over more relaxed access to alcohol, would see it as an attack on family values, and therefore their job may be in jeopardy. Once again that isn't the only factor just like the liquor store lobby isn't the only factor. Everything works together to make change very difficult.

That sentence makes your whole post very assumptive... Show me some proof that that's what the majority wants... Show me it's more than just a vocal minority...

[bchris02]

That sentence makes your whole post very assumptive... Show me some proof that that's what the majority wants... Show me it's more than just a vocal minority...

Are you saying that you believe a majority support the current laws?

[Urbanized]

I believe the majority are indifferent and/or in informed regarding options.

[jerrywall]

Are you saying that you believe a majority support the current laws?

Yes, or don't feel there's any major need to change them.