BOK Park Plaza

[Plutonic Panda]

There's also a line between biting the hand that feeds you and letting buildings that have been intentionally allowed to decay through lack of maintenance be torn down because they haven't been maintained.

We're biting the hand that feeds us.

[Plutonic Panda]

You build the biggest house in Galardia, doesn't mean you're the head of the HOA.

If you fix their streets, and bring the place back from the grave, I'd say yeah.

[David]

If you fix their streets, and bring the place back from the grave, I'd say yeah.

Excuse me, but OKC brought itself back from the grave with Maps. Devon may have gotten behind the cart and helped push, but they aren't remotely the only people working for the betterment of this city, and they certainly weren't the first.

[Pete]

If you fix their streets, and bring the place back from the grave, I'd say yeah.

Remember, Devon didn't pay for any of Project 180, the taxpayers paid every red cent. Including the massive Myriad Gardens re-do.

[HOT ROD]

It's funny that you use Microsoft as an example. I did a project of theirs in Bellevue that is almost identical to the Clayco proposal. If they were here in OKC he would be vilified too.

That wasn't Gates, that was Ballmer who built the Bellevue developments (Bravern, which is close to I-405) you're talking about. And by the way, Bravern has parking underground, as does Lincoln Square (a 28-storey highrise in Downtown Bellevue that I work in).

There are NO large above ground parking garages in downtown Bellevue; all are underground and/or partially above or contained within the building just like it should be in an urbanized DOWNTOWN area.

And to those who don't know, Bellevue WA is a SUBURB of Seattle of 150,000 people; BTW.

[Plutonic Panda]

Excuse me, but OKC brought itself back from the grave with Maps. Devon may have gotten behind the cart and helped push, but they aren't remotely the only people working for the betterment of this city, and they certainly weren't the first.

I also wonder where we would be if Devon moved to Houston.

Hey, at least we'd still have a couple of buildings the majority of the city doesn't care about or see.

[Plutonic Panda]

Remember, Devon didn't pay for any of Project 180, the taxpayers paid every red cent. Including the massive Myriad Gardens re-do.

I thought Devon paid for the redo of the streets around the Devon center? I also thought they donated some money towards the gardens. Is that not the case?

[Snowman]

I thought Devon paid for the redo of the streets around the Devon center? I also thought they donated some money towards the gardens. Is that not the case?

It is from the taxes from the building, specifically the difference between what the property was worth before and after construction, which if not going to streets and gardens would be going to the normal channels the taxes go through.

[HOT ROD]

they advanced tax dollars designated for a TIF that paid for P180. They volunteered to give the city money in advanced, rather than waiting out the duration on the dollars.

There likely was also tax advantages to this strategy as well that I'm sure Devon took advantage of (and why not?); however you can see this is a very positive way to use TIF.

[Paseofreak]

From the text above the graphic, it's pretty clear that Devon thinks work is a place to drive to. Why would you want any stores or restaurants there?

[SouthsideSooner]

Excuse me, but OKC brought itself back from the grave with Maps. Devon may have gotten behind the cart and helped push, but they aren't remotely the only people working for the betterment of this city, and they certainly weren't the first.

You're right and more specifically, it was suburbanites that then and now made it happen with our votes and sales tax dollars.. We've supported the rebirth of our downtown every step of the way and really don't ask for much...other than easy access driving in and out and a place to park when we get there.

I had a recent conversation with a member of the city council and they told me their projections show that downtown needs another 7000 parking spaces to accommodate currently planned and expected growth...

The Hines and Clayco developments go a long way in getting there...and these parking garages along the streetcar route are ideal for those of us wanting to park and ride...

Remember, Devon didn't pay for any of Project 180, the taxpayers paid every red cent. Including the massive Myriad Gardens re-do.

Really Pete? You know as well as anyone that Devon could have had every red cent spent on there corporate campus. It was Larry Nichols that instead came up with the idea of using those TIF funds to transform the Myriad Gardens and rebuilt the streets downtown and then went over and above in loaning the city the money in advance to make it happen... Nice way to show you appreciate it.

[soonerguru]

I thought Devon paid for the redo of the streets around the Devon center? I also thought they donated some money towards the gardens. Is that not the case?

They "fronted" the money for the TIF, and were repaid with interest.

[Plutonic Panda]

You're right and more specifically, it was suburbanites that then and now made it happen with our votes and sales tax dollars.. We've supported the rebirth of our downtown every step of the way and really don't ask for much...other than easy access driving in and out and a place to park when we get there. .

+1

[HOT ROD]

southside, we appreciate what Devon and Larry has done. He set the bar high.

Now, he should keep the renaissance going with high development and not this small time fit that it seems 499 is going to be as designed.

[SouthsideSooner]

They "fronted" the money for the TIF, and were repaid with interest.

Your post implies a nefarious motive. it was just to appease shareholders. What was the interest rate and what did it add to their bottom line?

[SouthsideSooner]

southside, we appreciate what Devon and Larry has done. He set the bar high.

Now, he should keep the renaissance going with high development and not this small time fit that it seems 499 is going to be as designed.

Haha...seriously? This project will add 700,00sf of class A office space on the perfect spot to redefine the district and provide a seamless expansion of the CBD to the west...and complements the Clayco development, to the south making it well over 1 million sf feet of class A office being added and encouraging further business growth west and south... , If everything is developed as planned, this is beyond our every hope of what our CBD could become when we voted for the original MAPS...

I love everything about the way our downtown has transformed and agree with a lot of what new urbanist want but lets let the CBA make class A office space, access and high paying job creation be the top priority...

[Paseofreak]

Have you looked at the north and west sides at street level? Big blank walls. That's not good design. Easy to fix, but no, they just don't seem to get it.

[David]

You're right and more specifically, it was suburbanites that then and now made it happen with our votes and sales tax dollars.. We've supported the rebirth of our downtown every step of the way and really don't ask for much...other than easy access driving in and out and a place to park when we get there.

None of that is an argument for allowing one single company to do whatever they want to downtown with zero oversight or questions asked. Nobody who acts alone has perfect perspective, even if they are acting for the benefit of others (see the Myriad Gardens) they are still seeing it from their perspective. It is not a sin for other voices who are looking at the problem from other angles to participate.

[NWOKCGuy]

provide a seamless expansion of the CBD to the west...

Ok - I'm actually supportive of this development but how exactly is it providing expansion to the west? It's replacing buildings that are already in the CBD not expanding the CBD.

[Just the facts]

The problem as I see it is that people like SouthsideSooner have simply set their bar of acceptability far too low. That is not surprising in a city dominated by Walmart. It is hard to stay motivated in a City dominated by people in a race to the bottom.

[Urbanized]

That's funny, because I know a few dozen people here who are concerning themselves daily with placemaking and quality urban development in OKC. They're making actual changes in our urban fabric every day instead of just lobbing critiques on a website, and constantly elevating urban standards, which in turn will (hopefully) eventually cause John Q Public to want/require more from his community.

About 150 of them will be attending the first ever ULI Impact awards tomorrow night. Perhaps if you're seeking inspiration for continuing to care about OKC perhaps you should pay attention to this group, rather than the number of Wal-Marts here.

ULI Oklahoma Impact Awards - ULI Oklahoma

[bchris02]

The problem isn't that the people of OKC has a bar of acceptability too low. In fact I think it's quite the opposite. In the real world, I hear quite a bit of complaining about some of the development practices here. The reality is the few decision makers in this town really lack perspective. It's bound to happen when you have a small group of wealthy elites controlling everything. They are out of touch with current development practices in other cities and also what the millennial generation wants in a city. That quote about Devon thinking the newly relocated employee was "joking" when she said she wanted to walk to work says everything. They may have the best intentions but when they don't have perspective, big mistakes are made.

[soondoc]

Your post implies a nefarious motive. it was just to appease shareholders. What was the interest rate and what did it add to their bottom line?

Ok, you are talking about 2 separate projects on 2 entirely different blocks. I am sorry, but a couple parking garages and a 27 story building for the ENTIRE block is pathetic. Factor in the demolition of more OKC, and it becomes borderline criminal in my opinion. It would be so much different if they had a couple high rises, or one high rise that was more of an impact on this whole block and perhaps lots of retail space for street interaction. A minimal building with parking garages for this big of an area isn't right and continues Oklahoma's motto- Oklahoma is OK and that is about where it ends. I guess it's better to be ok than suck, although I wish it would become great instead.

[hfry]

Chamber lunch is venue for SOTC. Chamber asking attendees to sign petition in favor of development that is in current preservation fight
by BenFelder
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/B7VApazCQAED7sQ.jpg

I believe Ben Felder is at the speech the mayor is about to give. The response by Hines and Devons shows that they thought everyone would roll over for their proposal and when that hasn't been the case they are doing a little PR to still try and slide it through.

[Pete]

Ben Felder (Gazette) is tweeting from the Chamber's State of the City luncheon today. https://twitter.com/benfelder_okg

"Chamber asking attendees to sign petition in favor of development that is in current preservation fight."

"Flyer on each table":