Walmart

[catcherinthewry]

This intersection is going to be horrible if this actually happens.

[Pete]

I strongly prefer Target but I've never seen one with self checkout.

The last couple of times I've been in, I've had to wait forever to buy just one or two small things. Makes it not worth going in at all.


Also, some time ago Target changed their store layouts where now you enter at one corner, and most the things I buy are at the far other corner. I know they do this to make you walk past all their clothing and other items, but it's a huge pain in the butt when you only need a few things.

They didn't used to be that way... Used to have a couple of entrances. I'm sure the change was for this particular purpose but that and the lack of self-check means I almost never go in a Target anymore and I think I've been in a Walmart just a few times in my life.

[tfvc.org]

I never use self checkout anymore. There is always some item that won't scan or is the wrong price and never anyone around to fix it. Once I waited 5 minutes for someone to help me before I finally walked out. That and self check also takes away jobs. It has come to a point that if there are no actual cashiers I will walk right out. It used to be that the best time to shop was on my way home from work but with most Walmart's eliminating cashiers late nights, now I shop for most things at Crest and whatever Crest doesn't have I will go to Walmart to buy those couple items and hope that they have a cashier open. I wish Target was 24/7, I would go there instead of Walmart in a heartbeat.

[catch22]

I don't use self check either. The more demand for checkout lanes, the greater demand there is for having actual employees on the payroll.

If we went to total self check in some of the large big box retailers, hundreds of thousands or even millions of people would again lose their jobs to automation.

[Pete]

Automation creates tons of high-paying jobs and reduces costs that are passed onto the consumer.

The grocery business uses tons of automation (like bar codes, automatic inventory, etc.). Should we go back to the time when everything was priced with a manual price tag and gun, and items counted by hand? Stores sure needed more employees then.

The fact that the consumers can easily check out themselves demonstrates how little real value these positions are providing.

Self check-out is still relatively new and there are some bugs but I use it almost exclusively at Ralph's (Kroger) and I almost never have a problem. In fact, I go to Ralph's because they offer this while the neighboring Vons does not.

[catch22]

For the record, Hobby Lobby uses the old way. And seems to be okay with using little price tags on items.

I disagree that automation creates a ton of high paying jobs. It may for initial software development, but once the software and hardware are created those jobs go away and a small support team remain. The point of automation is to reduce jobs, not create them. If they existed to create jobs, well they wouldn't exist.

It's all about long term cost. A multi million up front can save billions long term. And that's what these companies care about. Cost saving as the expense of our middle class.

[tfvc.org]

Walmart, jobs and the rise of self-service checkout tech | Computerworld

Tech vs. jobs

"People are not getting enough hours now, and when we have the self-checkout, people are going to be getting even less hours," said Janet Sparks, a Walmart customer service manager at a store in Louisiana who is also involved with Organization United for Respect at Walmart, a group supported by the United Food and Commercial Workers union. She believes understaffing creates demand for self-checkout systems.

Automated self-checkout "does eliminate jobs, there's not much question about that. The question is how many?" said Frank Levy, an MIT professor emeritus of urban economics.


Levy sees self-checkout automation as the next wave of technological change in this area, the first being barcoding. Barcoding improved the volume of work a cashier could handle. The question is whether there is offsetting job creation to make up for job losses due to automation.

In general, if computerization enables you to lower prices to stimulate more demand, employment will rise, he said.

But checkout cashier salaries are just a small part of the cost of groceries, said Levy, who doesn't believe the labor cost savings will have much impact on prices.

"What kinds of job creation is the economy going to see in other areas that might soak up labor, as opposed to just driving down the wages so cheap so that you get more jobs created that way?" said Levy.

Producing the automated systems will create jobs, but Levy said that the net overall effect may be job loss. "We should be thinking about it as a big problem," he said.

[Spartan]

Central Oklahoma should honestly try to establish rules preventing retail monopolies that don't just squeeze out mom and pops but primarily leave the state riddled with abandoned surplus strip malls and Walmarts.

[bchris02]

Central Oklahoma should honestly try to establish rules preventing retail monopolies that don't just squeeze out mom and pops but primarily leave the state riddled with abandoned surplus strip malls and Walmarts.

I second this.

[jccouger]

Yeah, we should totally get rid of free markets & capitalism....

I recommend you looking up the definition of monopoly. Being price competitive by utilizing economies of scale does not = monopoly.

[JesStang]

That's just crazy to say that Target and Walmart aren't the same. Just because you hate Walmart doesn't mean they're not similar to your favorite store.

I go to Walmart (in Mustang, where I live) for the cheap prices, period. I go to the Target in MWC on my lunch hour sometimes to waste time. Unless they're having a sale, they are always more expensive. Not to mention, I think they only have 8 or 12 registers altogether. Walmart has over 25 and most of them are usually open. Idk when y'all go to Walmart to say they're never open.

I just don't understand the hatred people have for Walmart. People always gripe about them running mom and pop stores out. Well there's only one reason for that: everyone started going there instead. That's not Walmart's fault, that's the people's. Yes, there's some nasty people who shop there sometimes but I just don't care. I'm not there to socialize, I'm there to shop. My Walmart in Mustang is nice anyway.

[warreng88]

I think it is safe to say the products at Target and Walmart are the same, but the attitude of the employees, ease of checkout, etc are better at Target and I don't even think there's a question about it.

[jccouger]

That's just crazy to say that Target and Walmart aren't the same. Just because you hate Walmart doesn't mean they're not similar to your favorite store.

I go to Walmart (in Mustang, where I live) for the cheap prices, period. I go to the Target in MWC on my lunch hour sometimes to waste time. Unless they're having a sale, they are always more expensive. Not to mention, I think they only have 8 or 12 registers altogether. Walmart has over 25 and most of them are usually open. Idk when y'all go to Walmart to say they're never open.

I just don't understand the hatred people have for Walmart. People always gripe about them running mom and pop stores out. Well there's only one reason for that: everyone started going there instead. That's not Walmart's fault, that's the people's. Yes, there's some nasty people who shop there sometimes but I just don't care. I'm not there to socialize, I'm there to shop. My Walmart in Mustang is nice anyway.

Holy crap, somebody with basic common sense! I thought I fell in to some kind of weird target twilight zone.

All Wal Mart does is employee 100's of thousand of people & offer the absolute lowest price to the consumer & they get hated for it. Blows my mind. If you want to spend more money, that's fine with me. It is your money after all, but don't say I didn't try to talk you out of it.

[TheTravellers]

This is why people know (not think, know) Wal-Mart is bad, it's a long read, but lays it *all* out, not just the low wages and killing mom-and-pop stores.

Criticism of Walmart - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

In fairness, they are changing some of their policies, but they're still not model global corporate citizens by any stretch of the imagination.

[bchris02]

I am more against Wal-Mart in places where it is or is nearing a monopoly. The supercenter saturation in OKC is beyond overkill at this point.

[Dubya61]

This is why people know (not think, know) Wal-Mart is bad, it's a long read, but lays it *all* out, not just the low wages and killing mom-and-pop stores.

Criticism of Walmart - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

In fairness, they are changing some of their policies, but they're still not model global corporate citizens by any stretch of the imagination.

I don't think anybody's nominating them for prom queen, but the "facts" that people "know" are part and parcel of the American culture very profitably executed on a grand scale at WalMart, but there are other places, too. I wonder why WalMart is the target of our desire to kill the ugly side of American culture but not ... McDonalds (or any other fast food giant)? Don't think they (or their colleagues) are radically different. Target? What they do is OK since it's a different color scheme and it's a perceived (marketed) higher quality product. SuperCuts or any of the hair care chains? AMC or any of the movie theater chains? Six Flags or Universal Studios? Harrah's or any of the casino industries?

[Pete]

I am more against Wal-Mart in places where it is or is nearing a monopoly. The supercenter saturation in OKC is beyond overkill at this point.

I posted the news about this new location on Facebook and there were tons of comments about how this was needed because the existing locations at I-240 and the other in Moore are slammed with business.

The bottom line is that if there wasn't demand, they wouldn't keep opening them.

And Target or anyone else could open at this location but chose not to.


I choose not to shop in Walmart because I don't like the stores but I would never be for regulating them or any other retailer. Once you start tinkering with the free market system there are all types of unintended ripple effects.

You could also make a very strong argument that being able to choose to shop at Target or WinCo or Kroger or Crest or Costco (as I do) and still pay very good prices is directly to the competition brought on by Walmart.

[TheTravellers]

I don't think anybody's nominating them for prom queen, but the "facts" that people "know" are part and parcel of the American culture very profitably executed on a grand scale at WalMart, but there are other places, too. I wonder why WalMart is the target of our desire to kill the ugly side of American culture but not ... McDonalds (or any other fast food giant)? Don't think they (or their colleagues) are radically different. Target? What they do is OK since it's a different color scheme and it's a perceived (marketed) higher quality product. SuperCuts or any of the hair care chains? AMC or any of the movie theater chains? Six Flags or Universal Studios? Harrah's or any of the casino industries?

Because of the scale that Wal-Mart works on? 900 lb gorilla... Because Target doesn't pay their workers so low they have to rely on food stamps and donations to get by? Because of Wal-Mart's aggressive expansion tactics (I don't believe SuperCuts came in to each city/town/village and put tons of local barbers out of business)? Can't say much about McDonald's, except that I think I've heard that because of all the beef they use, there is deforestation happening way more than it should. There's not a Six Flags that came into hundreds of cities and put the local amusement parks out of business, same for AMC, Harrah's, etc.

Having said that, America is way too full of chains that are gigantic and not playing nice with the rest of the country, and we all suffer for it.

[Dubya61]

Because of the scale that Wal-Mart works on? 900 lb gorilla... Because Target doesn't pay their workers so low they have to rely on food stamps and donations to get by? Because of Wal-Mart's aggressive expansion tactics (I don't believe SuperCuts came in to each city/town/village and put tons of local barbers out of business)? Can't say much about McDonald's, except that I think I've heard that because of all the beef they use, there is deforestation happening way more than it should. There's not a Six Flags that came into hundreds of cities and put the local amusement parks out of business, same for AMC, Harrah's, etc.

Having said that, America is way too full of chains that are gigantic and not playing nice with the rest of the country, and we all suffer for it.

At Payscale.com, the average hourly wage for a cashier at Target is in the $7.43-$10.08 range while the average hourly wage for a cashier at WalMart is in the $7.50-$10.69 range.

[bchris02]

Because of the scale that Wal-Mart works on? 900 lb gorilla... Because Target doesn't pay their workers so low they have to rely on food stamps and donations to get by? Because of Wal-Mart's aggressive expansion tactics (I don't believe SuperCuts came in to each city/town/village and put tons of local barbers out of business)? Can't say much about McDonald's, except that I think I've heard that because of all the beef they use, there is deforestation happening way more than it should. There's not a Six Flags that came into hundreds of cities and put the local amusement parks out of business, same for AMC, Harrah's, etc.

This.

Wal-Mart is a bully that seeks to dominate and force out existing businesses so people will have no choice but to shop there. Neither Target, AMC, or SuperCuts operate that way. I believe its been statistically proven that every time a Supercenter opens, at least one or many times two nearby traditional grocery stores close their doors (I will be very surprised if Homeland at S 104th and Penn survives this Wal-Mart). When Wal-Mart closes older locations they sit on the real estate as to keep competition from coming in. Also, compare a typical shopping center anchored by Wal-Mart to one anchored by Target (or Kroger or Tom Thumb) and make note of the differences. Wal-Mart is a business and everything they do is within the confines of the law, but that doesn't mean that I, as a consumer, have to like it.

[Dubya61]

If municipalities were smarter or less corrupt (not sure which) someone would hold WalMart accountable or restrict them. Who lets this bully into the party and pays for his admission fee? If these fabled mom and pop stores that go extinct when WalMart comes into an area were so great, why did they not compete? There are enough people out there that dislike WalMart that if the competition were there, WalMart would have to adjust their tactics.

[TheTravellers]

If municipalities were smarter or less corrupt (not sure which) someone would hold WalMart accountable or restrict them. Who lets this bully into the party and pays for his admission fee? If these fabled mom and pop stores that go extinct when WalMart comes into an area were so great, why did they not compete? There are enough people out there that dislike WalMart that if the competition were there, WalMart would have to adjust their tactics.

They *couldn't* compete - economy of scale. How can one store buying hammers from Acme Hammer Corporation get anywhere close to selling them for a price that Wal-Mart has them at (since Wal-Mart probably bought 4 million hammers from Acme at 1/10 the price the mom-and-pop did)? Wal-Mart forces their suppliers to a price level so low that some cannot stay in business any longer, they tell the suppliers what price they need to sell their products to Wal-Mart for and if they can't do it, too bad, Wal-Mart goes elsewhere. That's the way it used to be and most likely still is.

[TheTravellers]

At Payscale.com, the average hourly wage for a cashier at Target is in the $7.43-$10.08 range while the average hourly wage for a cashier at WalMart is in the $7.50-$10.69 range.

Found these while poking around:

Target -- The Emperor Has No Clothes! | Ralph Nader

Why Aren't Target Employees Striking Like Their Cousins At Wal-Mart?

Apparently Target workers get paid less, but are happier, but both corps suck when it comes to paying enough for workers to stay off public assistance.

[bchris02]

Per the NewsOK article, Wal-Mart has 8 more stores for OKC planned over the next two years. I can't imagine that they would all be Supercenters, but I wonder if that will be enough to finish off Homeland. Does anybody think that is overkill? They must be really scared of Winco entering the market.

Somebody in the 499 Sheridan thread mentioned, in response to JTF, that everywhere is dominated by Wal-Mart and not just OKC. I didn't comment there because I didn't want to hijack that thread, but that couldn't be farther from the truth. Wal-Mart is a significant player everywhere but complete market domination? Many small towns are dominated by Wal-Mart but there aren't any other sizable cities where they have anywhere close to the domination they have here.

[ljbab728]

Per the NewsOK article, Wal-Mart has 8 more stores for OKC planned over the next two years. I can't imagine that they would all be Supercenters, but I wonder if that will be enough to finish off Homeland. Does anybody think that is overkill? They must be really scared of Winco entering the market.

Somebody in the 499 Sheridan thread mentioned, in response to JTF, that everywhere is dominated by Wal-Mart and not just OKC. I didn't comment there because I didn't want to hijack that thread, but that couldn't be farther from the truth. Wal-Mart is a significant player everywhere but complete market domination? Many small towns are dominated by Wal-Mart but there aren't any other sizable cities where they have anywhere close to the domination they have here.

Here is a comparison of number of stores in various metros in our part of the country according to Walmart's website. The numbers for OKC are not out of proportion to the other cities (except for KC) based on the population.

Oklahoma City - 41
Tulsa - 35
Kansas City - 42
Wichita - 25
Little Rock - 32