OKC Community Church

[PhiAlpha]

Oklahoma City Community Church (OKCCC) is planning to move to a permanent location directly east of the Tower Theater on NW 23rd, right in the middle of the surging Uptown District.

OKCCC is currently holding their services in the Civic Center and have the building at 421 NW 23rd under contract to purchase. They have also filed a $500,000 building permit to convert the 9,600 square foot space to their new home.

[PRBREAK][/PRBREAK]
The building has been vacant for some time after being home to an art gallery. It was built in 1935 and for a good deal of it's life had been home to C.R. Anthony.

Old C.R. Anthony location in 1963

The adjacent Tower Theater was purchased by location developers just a few months ago. Plans are on track to find tenants for the complex and the owners hope to start an extensive renovation soon.

OKCCC's future home still has a good deal of it's original art deco interior elements, and the church hopes to integrate them into their ambitious remodeling plans, which call for a sanctuary and balcony, along with ancillary meeting rooms and facilities.

For the foreseeable future, the church would only host services on Sunday. They will also continue to operate their Community House near the 23rd Street Courts about a half mile to the east on 23rd.

421 NW 23rd along with the two buildings to the east were proposed as a live music venue about a year ago, but those plans fell through after significant opposition from nearby residents.

OKCCC currently has about 200 congregants and hope their new facility will broaden their reach in the central core.

http://okccommunitychurch.com/

[PhiAlpha]

Not that it matters, but I'm completely against using this space as a church. There is no need nor reason to locate it next to possibly the one location that it would truly be detrimental to. As Steve mentioned in his article below...could they not have chosen a building in midtown...like the former Christ the Scientist Church, that wouldn't negatively effect everything around it?

It also bothers me (though does not surprise me) that the church won't go on the record to discuss their plans for the space and its effect on everythig around it.

Answers to Frequently Asked Questions about Proposed Uptown 23rd Church | NewsOK.com

[hoya]

like the former Christ the Scientist Church,

???

[PhiAlpha]

???

No words...that is exactly how I pictured it. Haha

On edit...First Church of the Scientist*

[Pete]

It also bothers me (though does not surprise me) that the church won't go on the record to discuss their plans for the space and its effect on everythig around it.

Answers to Frequently Asked Questions about Proposed Uptown 23rd Church | NewsOK.com

First of all, I spoke directly to the church pastor Tim Mannin and Judy Hatfield who called me to discuss this, and they couldn't have been more forthright.

Secondly, the Tower owners have been in dialog with the church and both sides said they were working together. I posted about both these things around the time I wrote the article two weeks ago.

And finally, this just plain silly:

Q: Couldn't the owners of the Tower Theater seek an ABC-3 before the church opens?

A: Only if the church was willing to wait for the theater to be fully renovated, which will take time, and leased with all permits obtained. ABC-3 zoning is not granted until a building renovation is completed and a certificate of occupancy is obtained.

Q: Is the church aware of these issues?

A: I don't know - they won't grant interviews and have told me they won't discuss the matter until the property purchase is completed.

Steve has clearly been talking to the Tower owners who already told me -- twice -- they have been actively working with the church and anticipate things will work out. Exact wording: "they are so far communicating a positive attitude and willingness to work with us". I'm sure they've told Steve the same.



Frankly, it's ridiculous to cast this church as some sort of bad guy in this scenario.

They are buying an empty property in a thriving district in order to be a bigger part of the community, and investing a ton of money to do so. Reminder they already have a community house near Cuppies & Joe.

The laws are archaic but the church has said -- and the owners have verified -- that there is active cooperation to work around the Tower issue.

The Tower guys have every right to be concerned but what on earth is the expectation here? That a business (church, in this case) shouldn't buy and occupy a building because it will trigger a ridiculous law, even though the church leaders have openly stated they are happy to work with the affected parties??

[Pete]

Not that it matters, but I'm completely against using this space as a church. There is no need nor reason to locate it next to possibly the one location that it would truly be detrimental to. As Steve mentioned in his article below...could they not have chosen a building in midtown...like the former Christ the Scientist Church, that wouldn't negatively effect everything around it?

A church would have the same exact impact as it would on 23rd.

What if someone wanted to renovate one of the buildings next to that church into something that required an ABC-3 permit?

It's the exact same issue.

[PhiAlpha]

A church would have the same exact impact as it would on 23rd.

What if someone wanted to renovate one of the buildings next to that church into something that required an ABC-3 permit?

It's the exact same issue.

First Baltist is already directly across the street from that former church building, so I would argue that it would have less of an effect on the development in its immediate proximity.

[Pete]

First Baltist is already directly across the street from that former church building, so I would argue that it would have less of an effect on the development in its immediate proximity.

And by that same token, there is already an operating church in a storefront on 23rd just two blocks to the west of this property.

[UnFrSaKn]

Lol sorry

[bchris02]

I think the issue with the Tower Theater is it absolutely requires an ABC-3 permit to be successful. If it was anywhere else, anybody who wanted to open a bar nearby could serve food also and qualify for ABC-2. The Tower Theater however doesn't have a kitchen. If the church goes in before they get their ABC-3 license, then any change of it being a successful performance/music venue is severely handicapped.

I agree the bad guy is NOT this church. It's the law and the extreme fundamentalist base who oppose relaxing it.

[PhiAlpha]

Lol sorry

I guess that's what I get for using an iPhone. The new predictive text is terrible.

[BillyOcean]

Everyone agrees that the archaic law is to blame, BUT until that law is fixed the Church is absolutley hindering the possibility for the district to continue its renaissance. Deals and handshake deals at that, go south all the time. Until the Tower theatre guys have everything done to grandfather in to beat any code restrictions caused by the Church, I will be worried about this.

[jerrywall]

By the logic of some, we better hope no one opens any schools, daycares, or apartments in these urban development areas, since they can all affect the ability of places to get ABC-3 permits. I'm sure keeping out these type of community growth needs will especially help districts continue their "renaissance".

[CuatrodeMayo]

I guess that's what I get for using an iPhone. The new predictive text is terrible.

Your phone thinks "Chrurch" is a word?

[BillyOcean]

By the logic of some, we better hope no one opens any schools, daycares, or apartments in these urban development areas, since they can all affect the ability of places to get ABC-3 permits. I'm sure keeping out these type of community growth needs will especially help districts continue their "renaissance".

No. There are other options within the district to locate that will not possibly hinder any other potential businesses that are currently being pitched and negotiated. Specifically the Tower development. Pretty simple to comprehend.

[Teo9969]

Here's the better question to be asking:

How long does the Tower Theater need to be completely renovated and ready to receive an inspection for head count? Getting their ABLE license ultimately depends on a time line. If we're talking about 6 months…then I doubt we'll have a problem. If we're talking about 18 months, well the church is not going to wait forever.

[Pete]

When the Tower was acquired, they said they already had their financing in place for the renovation.

They told me they wanted to get started right after the first of the year.

The complicating factor is they don't have their tenants completely nailed down.

[Urbanized]

No. There are other options within the district to locate that will not possibly hinder any other potential businesses that are currently being pitched and negotiated. Specifically the Tower development. Pretty simple to comprehend.

^^^^^^^
This. Folks keep acting as if being troubled about this is tantamount to not wanting churches to locate in urban areas, or being anti-church/religion in general. Total straw man. This is a very specific issue; revival of the Tower Theater space is critical to Uptown. Few if any renovation scenarios involve a restaurant in the theater space; but many options could require a bar. Any benefit this church might bring to the district are clearly negated if they hinder or cripple efforts to renovate the Tower.

Some people just don't WANT to comprehend.

[adaniel]

Steve has clearly been talking to the Tower owners who already told me -- twice -- they have been actively working with the church and anticipate things will work out. Exact wording: "they are so far communicating a positive attitude and willingness to work with us". I'm sure they've told Steve the same.



Frankly, it's ridiculous to cast this church as some sort of bad guy in this scenario.

They are buying an empty property in a thriving district in order to be a bigger part of the community, and investing a ton of money to do so. Reminder they already have a community house near Cuppies & Joe.

The laws are archaic but the church has said -- and the owners have verified -- that there is active cooperation to work around the Tower issue.

This needs to be said again and again. Why are developments that are being subsidized with millions of dollars in taxpayer funds given the benefit of the doubt on here, but a church that is actively trying to be as undisruptive as possible being villified?

The viciousness of the attacks on here are frankly depressing. As if these people are somehow right wing holy rollers moving in to try and shut down all those sinners drinking and fornicating on 23rd. I don't recall anyone saying these things about when UCO-ACM was first proposed, even though like this church they also lobbied (successfully I might add) to make sure they didn't affect Bricktown with ABC2 zoning.

There is a living, breathing neighborhood here. And while the Paseo area and 23rd Corridor are rapidly gentrifying, I can personally tell you there is a lot of poverty both to the immediate east and west of this location. When people back in the 70s and 80s were tripping over themselves white flighting to the suburbs, churches were all too eager to follow them, taking their community outreach services with them. In a low tax/low services state like OK, that was pretty devastating. For this fact alone, an "urban church" that is willing to move into this area and invest themselves into the community should be looked at as a positive, and not given side eye from supposedly open minded people for having the audacity to exist.

[jerrywall]

^^^^^^^
This. This is a very specific issue. Good mixed urban development.

Seriously though, I would have a very different viewpoint if the church wasn't a) already a good, involved member of the community there and b) wasn't appearing to be working and willing to do what they can do not be disruptive to the Tower development or other area development.

[Pete]

When I spoke with the church, they said they had been looking in the area for quite some time.

It's not like they had 10 properties to choose from that suit their needs... They were looking and looking, finally found one that works for them and were able to negotiate a price that fits their budget.

Now, they are trying to work with the Tower owners over an issue that is not their fault.


It's an unfortunate situation brought on by a ridiculous law. Seems like energy should be put into fixing that problem rather then trying to influence where a church can operate.

[Pete]

BTW, what do people want the church to do here?

Cancel the purchase, scrap their plans, flush the money they've already invested?

Wait until another suitable property comes along in their price range, if ever?

[Urbanized]

Who exactly is trying to influence where a church can operate?

[Pete]

Who exactly is trying to influence where a church can operate?

I'm addressing the people who don't want them operating in this particular spot.

[Bullbear]

BTW, what do people want the church to do here?

Cancel the purchase, scrap their plans, flush the money they've already invested?

Wait until another suitable property comes along in their price range, if ever?

Be a maverick and open a Church/Full service Bar.. with a catchy name that includes "Spirit/Spirits" in a ironic fashion..