This would be another long discussion that would completely derail the thread, but for most Americans, conservative, right-wing tea partyism and new urbanism are incompatible. Conservatism is about preserving the post-World War II American dream i.e. the suburban lifestyle and values that dominated American culture from the 1950s through the 1980s. There is a reason most conservatives prefer suburbs and rural areas and most liberals prefer cities. New Urbanism is seen as one in the same with liberalism.
Right. New urbanism. = more govt control/interference. "Right wing tea party" is the opposite of that
Reminder that several City Council spots go to election in just two months.
This is a great time to call out the City Council on issues like these and make them take a public stand, then vote accordingly.
All new TIF's, TIF allocations and committee appointments have to be approved by the council.
There is nothing that could be proposed that would merit taking down First National. Nothing. There are plenty of other spots in OKC to build. OKC isn't NYC.
It is interesting you say that because in reality New Urbanism is the local free-market solution and modern Euclidean zoning is the "more govt control/interference" option. New Urbanism doesn't regulate land use. All it does is protect the public realm (relationship to the street). If you don't believe me go look at OKC's current zoning and land use code and compare it to the SmartCode and then ask yourself which you would rather live under.
SmartCode Central
As further proof - all those old building being torn down in OKC were built before OKC had a zoning code and government regulation (or at least minimal by today's standard). How is that the old stuff you seem to hate was built without government interference and the new stuff you love is riddled with government regulation, and in the case of the Clayco development - paid for with a big heaping shovel full of tax dollars. You have become so blind you don't even know what you believe in anymore.
...and no, I am not sorry this time for derailing the thread because this is the root cause for a lot that is wrong now.
Pete, please do put that quote in the header - that's awesome - we're not doing our civic duty IMO if we're not questioning our elected leaders (at all levels) to make sure that they're accountable for their plans and actions (or inactions)
shawnw, no more leases in FNC means all of FNC - so Cafe 7, the Tinder Box, Dr. Hirsch and Saints Metro Medical, Tommy & Leigh and the nail ladies on 7, lawyers, architects, engineers, oil companies, state agencies - all gone-zo, not all at once but there'll be a slow exodus until there's no one left
jn1780, the FNC land isn't all that large? It takes up one-half of the entire city block bounded by Robinson/Broadway and Main/Park - it's HUGE! and smack in the center of all the other downtown buildings - maybe you're only thinking of the FNC as the Tower and forgetting about the rest of the building?
For the most part, I like Steve and his info - there's few other sources out there for info on downtown OKC - but I also know enough not to take his info as the gospel - I have no doubt he gets a lot of very good information from trusted sources - but I'm also sure he gets played every now and then and fed misinformation as many of us do in our daily jobs - it's up to us to decide what's wheat and what's chaff - I think he got played on the Preftakes Block thing but so what, I'm not all that torn up about the Bus Station or Hotel Black - I will be torqued about the First National though so I hope he's not being fed propaganda on the FNC
Personally, I don't think the First National Tower will ever get demolished - it's too grand a structure and too much a keystone for downtown OKC to suffer that indignity - but it needs a LOT of TLC right now - heck, I was in there yesterday and only one of the four elevators to the top half of the tower was in working condition (which is exactly the same as it has been for months now) - it is my hope that the tower gets refurbished for at least the 2000's and restored to glory, whether it be as a hotel, housing, office or all of the above
However, a good portion of the remainder of the FNC I think should and will get torn down - I don't know much about the East building other than it's old and decrepit and the Center building is worse - who knows what will replace it/them - parking garage, modern office space, retail, your guess is as good as mine
I spent a lot of time in the FNC, especially the Tower, for many many years - she needs a lot of love - I hope that she gets it
Bob
My concern, like those of many others here, is that too few people care enough to make any kind of stand loud enough to make a difference. Everyone that reads this board could write a letter to the mayor, their city council person, the ddrc and even Larry nichols, Hines, Pickard, and every board member at Devon, but would that be enough to make any kind of difference. How do we get more people to give a rip about this?
Purely a guess on my part, but I suspect that they want the place vacated because if and when a deal ever gets made, having it sitting vacant would facilitate a quicker sale - the new owner(s) could close quickly and get started on the turnaround as opposed to having to wait weeks/months/years for leases to expire and tenants to move - a potential huge selling point if you're a developer looking to refurbish/restore the place vs being a landlord while you wait for everyone to leave
Another guess on my part - I suspect it's a lot more cost effective with the current occupancy rate to just padlock the doors, turn off the utilities and pay the property taxes each year than it is to keep the place open for those few remaining rent-paying tenants - I was always told the first rule of getting out of a hole is to quit digging......
Bob
You are right. Downtown OKC has enough surface parking and grassy lots that there really isn't any excuse for demolishing anything at all. If I was playing SimCity, I would place the 499 Sheridan development instead on the southwest corner of Walker and Sheridan on the surface parking. Either that or fit everything in the way KanyeMo posted in that thread.
I know in my case, I plan to keep exposing hypocrisy and misinformation and the circumvention of the public process.
I also have some specific ideas for changes that can be driven by the City Council, and I hope to not only publish them (with feedback from the people here) but take then directly to members of the Council individually.
I'll have more on all this very soon... Many discussions and research happening behind the scenes.
They can only implode the FNC if they promise to build 2 40-50 story buildings . Otherwise,we will have to go down there in shifts and make a human ring around the buildings.
But seriously,who thinks that there is even the slightest possibility of the FNC coming down? Not me.
I don't think it would ever be demoed but I also wouldn't just assume that to be the case, especially if it sits vacant for years.
Yeah, I don't think so either. I can see the east building(s) coming down as was said above. FNC tower is a landmark and could be restored for much less than demo/rebuilding something. If or when this is done, it'll be a great investment for someone.
There is also a proven track record on how to get the funding together and then run a successful hotel after huge renovations to a historic building, thanks to the Skirvin and Colcord.
It's private development and ownership in an area that has received hundreds of millions of dollars in public funding, with specific laws and design guidelines about how you are supposed to build in this area.
It isn't like someone sprung this on them by surprise. They knew about these rules before they bought the land. If I move into Heritage Hills and want to tear down a turn of the century Georgian manor and replace it with something that looks like a giant neon pink igloo, you can understand why I'll be prevented from doing that. Right?
....Right?
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