BOK Park Plaza

[BoulderSooner]

Regarding the retail space, I'm sure if they put up "for lease" signs they will get calls/interest. I don't think there's anything like that for the Devon retail spaces, which is a shame, unless I'm mistaken. IMO they should finish out the spaces and AT LEAST use them for pop up shops.

Devon doesn't have any vacant retail spaces. So there is nothing to market. Building out retail where the window boxes are. Would require construction and removal of parking.

This will be actual retail space. And I'm sure it will fill up

[Pete]

People who are judging this block as it sits today are judging it unfairly. It has been bought up and tenants ran out. If these properties were active on the market I'm very confident we'd see 23rd Street style proposals and projects come to this block. But no one is giving it a chance.

Yep.

Owner not only bought and sat on them, he didn't even maintain them. And of course, forced paying tenants to leave -- like the Lunch Box -- just so the building could sit idle and help their case for demolition.

All this never, ever should have been allowed in the first place.

The whole thing has been a massive manipulation and because of who is involved, nobody says a word.

[catch22]

Devon doesn't have any vacant retail spaces. So there is nothing to market. Building out retail where the window boxes are. Would require construction and removal of parking.

This will be actual retail space. And I'm sure it will fill up

So they lied about creating retail spaces that they would eventually want to fill?

[Snowman]

Not bad. However, this goes to show that Hines has absolutely no interest in compromising with preservationists at all. Even if they made an effort just to save the bus station and demolish everything else, that would still show that they cared. They have basically just given the middle finger to everyone who wants to see the historic structures preserved.

In addition, as we all know from the Devon tower, attracting retail is easier said than done. If this gets built as pictured here, can retail work there immediately or will it be something that sits vacant for years until the west side of the CBD starts to fill in with residential?

Devon tower's existing garage is hardly an example of trying to attract retail, while they agreed to make it possible to put retail in the future, they did not have any immediate intent of attracting retail to the garage and probably still do not. On top of this they would have to be willing to give up parking to build the retail space when they are already having to contract with other garages to serve their current needs, with the parking being lost at ground level there is better than average chance that these spots are reserved for VIPs that might have a say in them having to accept worse parking.

[BDP]

Devon doesn't have any vacant retail spaces. So there is nothing to market. Building out retail where the window boxes are. Would require construction and removal of parking.

This will be actual retail space. And I'm sure it will fill up

Hard to say. Maybe this is a ruse like the Devon window box retail. It certainly wouldn't be inconsistent with their tactics to date.

[Pete]

Devon may have been forced to put in those window boxes but they can't be forced to build them out for retail.

BTW, don't be surprised if the same thing happens with these two garages. If you haven't noticed, all the renderings show the same window box type of design, rather than pure storefront like you see across the street in the new Main Street Garage.

Note that the Main St. Garage had pretty much all their ground floor space leased before the garage even opened. It's true most of that is office, but that still adds life to the street and there will be some retail/restaurant use.

[BoulderSooner]

Yep.

Owner not only bought and sat on them, he didn't even maintain them. And of course, forced paying tenants to leave -- like the Lunch Box -- just so the building could sit idle and help their case for demolition.

All this never, ever should have been allowed in the first place.

The whole thing has been a massive manipulation and because of who is involved, nobody says a word.

How do you propose stoping someone from buying a building and forcing out the tenant?

[BDP]

Devon may have been forced to put in those window boxes but they can't be forced to build them out for retail.

BTW, don't be surprised if the same thing happens with these two garages.

Agree. It all just seems like placating. It's not an urban minded development approach to begin with, so I don't see them having some wholesale change of mindset. If they don't see an issue with 50% of an urban block being used for parking garages, then I doubt they have any interest in making even bigger changes to incorporate more urban elements.

[Pete]

Look familiar?

[bchris02]

In no way should this be approved if it doesn't include actual retail space. Not window boxes that could be built out as retail in the future, but retail space ready to be leased upon completion of the garages.

[warreng88]

Pete, if this gets approved and retail tennants move in, who is in charge of something like that? Devon will be taking a up the majority of the building, but Hines will be building the building. Would it be the same people who gather rent from the office building and monthly parking payments?

[BoulderSooner]

Devon may have been forced to put in those window boxes but they can't be forced to build them out for retail.

BTW, don't be surprised if the same thing happens with these two garages. If you haven't noticed, all the renderings show the same window box type of design, rather than pure storefront like you see across the street in the new Main Street Garage.

Note that the Main St. Garage had pretty much all their ground floor space leased before the garage even opened. It's true most of that is office, but that still adds life to the street and there will be some retail/restaurant use.

This is actually vacant retail space. That makes it much much different from the window boxes on the other garage

[BoulderSooner]

So they lied about creating retail spaces that they would eventually want to fill?

They never lied. At ddrc request they in the boxes in so that retail space would be possible in the future. That is all they never "promised" In this case there will be actuall retail space.

[Pete]

This is actually vacant retail space. That makes it much much different from the window boxes on the other garage

We'll see what actually gets built and marketed.

[king183]

How many of you complaining about this have actually written and called the DDRC and City Council about your concerns rather than just being angry and not doing anything about it? I hope a lot of you. If you haven't yet, please do so now. If you don't try to do anything about it, stop complaining when things don't go the way you wish. I just emailed them and my council representative to tell them I'm unhappy with these garages and the architect's proposed urban deadzone.

City of Oklahoma City | Downtown Review Committee

[betts]

I wish I could say I thought anything would help. We couldn't/didn't save the Stage Center and these buildings have far fewer redeeming qualities. Why would the DDRC save them when they didn't care to save an architecturally significant, unique building?

[Pete]

I wish I could say I thought anything would help. We couldn't/didn't save the Stage Center and these buildings have far fewer redeeming qualities. Why would the DDRC save them when they didn't care to save an architecturally significant, unique building?

And when these demolitions are approved, there is virtually no argument that can be made for any other historic building.

Developers can not only point to all these recent approvals, they will be completely emboldened to undertake projects where demolition is the easier path, with the full confidence they will get the required approvals without even a real fight.

And it certainly encourages people to buy, empty, let the buildings deteriorate then claim their are too costly to fix.

[DocThunder]

Regardless who owns this project. They should want to make sure it has a ROI that is substantial. There is an 80/20 rule that applies here too. 80% of the cost is in the lowest 20% of the building ( Land / Site / Lowest Levels of project if multiple floors project ). So, why not have the other items ( enhanced ) to make sure they reach the ROI quicker.

1. Ugly parking garages vs Ones with a full-face of retail and upper skin that represents the district.
2. Box on a slant vs. An attractive unique ( skin ) or design that is appealing to the eye.
3. If it is going to cost millions, why would you not have the most floors that footprint can handle ? ...and yes, adding more floors ( in the middle, not the lower levels ) would increase the profile of the structure thus, being more attractive to today / tomorrow tenants. Why would you want a shorter structure / blah design / and very little reason to be at the building ( vs ) A taller structure that makes a statement in OKC. A creative design that adds to the statement of design, not a negative ( cookie cutter ) . A building that makes the people of OKC want to be a part of the building ( future tenants ) and wonderful retail interaction....?

[soondoc]

Regardless who owns this project. They should want to make sure it has a ROI that is substantial. There is an 80/20 rule that applies here too. 80% of the cost is in the lowest 20% of the building ( Land / Site / Lowest Levels of project if multiple floors project ). So, why not have the other items ( enhanced ) to make sure they reach the ROI quicker.

1. Ugly parking garages vs Ones with a full-face of retail and upper skin that represents the district.
2. Box on a slant vs. An attractive unique ( skin ) or design that is appealing to the eye.
3. If it is going to cost millions, why would you not have the most floors that footprint can handle ? ...and yes, adding more floors ( in the middle, not the lower levels ) would increase the profile of the structure thus, being more attractive to today / tomorrow tenants. Why would you want a shorter structure / blah design / and very little reason to be at the building ( vs ) A taller structure that makes a statement in OKC. A creative design that adds to the statement of design, not a negative ( cookie cutter ) . A building that makes the people of OKC want to be a part of the building ( future tenants ) and wonderful retail interaction....?

I like the way you think! As I mentioned earlier, I have already made my point about the by dislike of the height and won't be talking about that anymore. I do agree with you though Thunder and think you make some very good points that get dismissed by most people on here. If I were them and they are getting the resistance that they are, I would add about 5-6 more floors on top of the building for residential only- maybe about 70 units with killer views of the DT, BT, MBG, and the new park.

I think out of all the employees in those 2 towers, it would be a scramble to see who could get their names in first to live there! They could literally walk to work, can't beat that at all. With that said, they do need some good retail, such as some eating establishments, deli, small grocery shop in the building, etc. Note to the developers, these units would sell faster than you can say your name. Keep in mind, with the residential units on top, they would have their own private elevator and entrance as well. What are your thoughts?

[Martin]

deleted a few posts. let's stick to topic. -M

[OKCRT]

I am gonna call in and tell them I want a taller building there or I will carry a sign around the block demanding it. 40 stories or bust!

[HOT ROD]

https://www.change.org/p/oklahoma-ci...city-s-history

here is the link directly to the petition.

[OKCRT]

Seriously,there's nothing anyone can do to stop this so all the petitioning is a waste of energy. The Black Hotel could & should be saved and if they moved to new building to the west a bit they could add a sky bridge to the Black and continue over to Devon. Turn the Black back into a Hotel. That is really the only building I will be sad to see go. Lets face it. The bus station isn't really significant and the Auto Hotel will be torn down for a better structure of the same use. But the bottom line is it's their money and their land and they own these buildings so they will do pretty much what they want to do. My only real gripe is I thought that they would build something similar to the Devon tower and this new building doesn't come close to that. If it was 40 stories I bet there wouldn't be near the hand wringing going on here.

[OUGrad05]

Amazing to me the gripes coming from okc folks now. The amount of construction and proposals is staggering compared with 7 or 8 years ago and is blowing those of us in Tulsa out of the water. Is it perfect? No... But it is solid regardless.

And of course Devon wants their second tower close to their first. That's reasonable.

[edcrunk]

They could have kept The Hotel Black and created an intersting design around it like 1999 Broadway in Denver.
I work at a Prime Steakhouse now and noticed Nick Preftakes had a reservation with us, fortunately for me I was bartending at the Chesapeake Christmas Party the day he dined with us... It would have been hard to hold my tongue about demolishing such historical buildings.