BOK Park Plaza

[Plutonic Panda]

Keep in mind the more these types of projects are allowed/approved, the less likely anything is ever going to change.

We've already seen this happen with the demolitions... Once the SandRidge thing was approved, on what grounds can the deny the same type of request from Hines or anyone else?

+1

[BigD Misey]

Well, lets hope you all are right about theses buildings because they have made it very clear that they want to be as close to the Devon complex as possible and they want the corner that is closest to the gardens. Anyone that thought these two buildings werent coming down when they were purchased is fooling themselves.
If they cannot achieve this, my guess is the eventually sell off the properties.

[kevinpate]

The odds of this not happening in substantially the same manner as proposed (big garages, older buildings razed, skywalks, offset corner bldg to have a small plaza, etc.) are about the same odds of me winning the lottery drawing on Saturday without buying a ticket. Not zero, cause after all, someone might buy a ticket and mark it all up with my info and it mihgt win and all, but I don't think I'll be banking on that outcome either.

[BDP]

I agree there needs to be more to this project but if I have to make a choice of what is just sitting there now or their project I think I would take what they are offering. Why? Because it's better than a bunch of building sitting there rotting away.

Which is why they should have demolished Bricktown, AA, Midtown, Paseo, Uptown and the Plaza district a long time ago.

[bchris02]

Which is why they should have demolished Bricktown, AA, Midtown, Paseo, Uptown and the Plaza district a long time ago.

Midtown was for the most part demolished, which is why to this day so much of it is sitting as grassy lots. Likewise with Bricktown, which today is still full of surface parking.

Nonetheless there really isn't any comparison between the Preftakes block and the three buildings in jeopardy there to the districts you mentioned. We are talking about a few buildings vs entire districts. I think a good question is, if preservationists are successful in saving these buildings, what then?

[BDP]

Nonetheless there really isn't any comparison between the Preftakes block and the three buildings in jeopardy there to the districts you mentioned.

True. The buildings in those districts were much worse off at one point than these are.

...which is why to this day so much of it is sitting as grassy lots.

Wait, there's empty lots in downtown OKC?

[OKCRT]

Which is why they should have demolished Bricktown, AA, Midtown, Paseo, Uptown and the Plaza district a long time ago.

That makes O sense. Apples to oranges.

And midtown had a bunch of crappy old junk that needed to be bulldozed. It's good that most is gone and much has or is being refurbished.

[jccouger]

I ran in to a interesting article about the Kowloon walled City in Hong Kong.

Life inside the densest place on earth: Photos of Kowloon Walled City - CNN.com



This place was Just the Facts wet dream. But wait, it was torn down!! For a............ Park! bahahahahahaha

I really think JTF and the "new urbanism" crowd thinks this place was the mecca. Seriously, it has EVERYTHING they ask for!


*this post was make jokingly, and I even agree with A LOT of what JTF says. He is just wayyy over the top extreme in his views.

[TU 'cane]

I went ahead and sent my email to Lisa Chronister, hope it's not too late.
I didn't cast aside this project entirely. Just requested that the city and all parties involve take a critical look at the current proposal and consider seeing what's necessary to keep for the sake of history and character in downtown OKC. I couldn't sit idly anymore and not say something. Again, I certainly don't mean to intrude, but I have spent so much time in downtown OKC that I feel it's become part of me. I only want what's best and I don't believe tearing down EVERY structure for a couple parking garages is worth it. If there was only a way to blend the current proposal with at least one of the current structures (which I believe we've discussed is more than possible), I think all parties can be happy.

Just my two cents.

[Pete]

If you are interested in signing the on-line petition to save this block you can find the link here:

OKCTalk - Preservationist look to save nine downtown buildings

Also, you send an email to the Downtown Design Review Committee through Paula Hurst: paula.hurst@okc.gov.

[BDP]

And midtown had a bunch of crappy old junk that needed to be bulldozed. It's good that most is gone and much has or is being refurbished.

Much of what is or has been refurbished was much like the "crappy old junk that needed to be bulldozed".

That makes O sense. Apples to oranges.

It makes a lot of sense, but then again, at one point the idea that those places would one day be some of the most popular and vibrant spots in the city made no sense to most people in Oklahoma City.

Kind of like most people don't realize that Apples and Oranges have a lot of similarities.

[Just the facts]

I ran in to a interesting article about the Kowloon walled City in Hong Kong.

Life inside the densest place on earth: Photos of Kowloon Walled City - CNN.com



This place was Just the Facts wet dream. But wait, it was torn down!! For a............ Park! bahahahahahaha

I really think JTF and the "new urbanism" crowd thinks this place was the mecca. Seriously, it has EVERYTHING they ask for!


*this post was make jokingly, and I even agree with A LOT of what JTF says. He is just wayyy over the top extreme in his views.

FYI - that is nothing like New Urbanism.

[Just the facts]

I wonder if a couple months worth of red tape and delay might be enough to stop this project dead in it tracks. I think one of the reason Devon has put a rush on this is to get it started before the bottom falls out of the oil market and the Wall Street types put an end to the non-core spending.

[Rover]

Yes, let's hope that we have a bust and we can keep everything just the way it is. Instead of wanting to work out things, let's hope we all fail. I sure if we have an oil bust that another industry will want to come in. OKC doesn't need any stinking oil money.

[Pete]

I wonder if a couple months worth of red tape and delay might be enough to stop this project dead in it tracks. I think one of the reason Devon has put a rush on this is to get it started before the bottom falls out of the oil market and the Wall Street types put an end to the non-core spending.

This has been in the works for quite a while.

I've heard it will move forward very quickly when/if approval is received.

[BoulderSooner]

I wonder if a couple months worth of red tape and delay might be enough to stop this project dead in it tracks. I think one of the reason Devon has put a rush on this is to get it started before the bottom falls out of the oil market and the Wall Street types put an end to the non-core spending.

Devon isn't doing the spending.

[Just the facts]

Devon isn't doing the spending.

That's right. It's Hines.

[catch22]

A compromise needs to be made. I like the building, a little bland -- but I like it. It's an architectural style that isn't represented. However, there needs to be a way to save some buildings on this site.

Also, regarding the park. Remember there will be 2 residential towers and an elementary school 1 block from the park. While the residential towers are not directly against the park, they are close enough that the people in those towers will use the park. The CC hotel may as well be considered residential, from a time-of-day population standpoint. That will be fronting the park.

There will also be the streetcar line running directly by the two Clayco business towers, the MBG, and 499 Sheridan. The streetcar line will be bringing people directly to the park, and the stops will be on the Garden side of the park. People will literally be dropped off right in the park, tourists and residents (leisure time is flexible) will be very likely to use the park, or at least walk through it on the way to where they are going.

[ljbab728]

Again, I certainly don't mean to intrude, but I have spent so much time in downtown OKC that I feel it's become part of me. I only want what's best and I don't believe tearing down EVERY structure for a couple parking garages is worth it. If there was only a way to blend the current proposal with at least one of the current structures (which I believe we've discussed is more than possible), I think all parties can be happy.

Just my two cents.

Making your opinion known isn't intruding. We need much more such intrusions in OKC. Thanks.

[ljbab728]

If you are interested in signing the on-line petition to save this block you can find the link here:

OKCTalk - Preservationist look to save nine downtown buildings

Also, you send an email to the Downtown Design Review Committee through Paula Hurst: paula.hurst@okc.gov.

I signed the petition and I was only number 97. Surely we can do better than that.

[G.Walker]

This project will move forward. It is just the duty of Preservation Oklahoma to make an attempt, but do they really think they will win? For that answer, one just has to look across the street. They made a mistake of presenting a case to save all buildings. Now I don't think all the building have to go, but I know some of them do. If Hines/Pickard are as smart as I think they are, they will find a way to save the Union Bus Station, on which I think they will, and that will be enough to get this pushed through.

Moreover, I thought Nick Preftakes already received the demolition permit for Carpenter Square and some of other buildings a couple years ago?

[Pete]

No demolition permits have been issued for any of the existing buildings.

[G.Walker]

Ok, well I could of swore he had received demolition permits for something, because everybody was making a big stink about it because we were like how could they approve a demolition permit without seeing plans.

[Rover]

Pete, was there ever really any plan, or at least an analysis of the potential to make the Hotel Black into residential? As I recall, at one point you thought that was going to happen? Was it actually considered or was it misdirection and dis-information?

Also, if not all the buildings can be saved, what are the buildings that DEFINITELY should be saved instead of going forward with this project. Are there any that would be deal breakers? In other words, if the Carpenter Sq building had to go but it would save the Hotel Black and motor hotel, would that be enough?

[hoya]

In my mind, saving Hotel Black should be first priority.