BOK Park Plaza

[gopokes88]

I hope at some point they need a few more floors so they add them and the height is adjusted to 499 feet.

[Pete]

They plan to start very soon.

There may be some subtle tweaks but this is not like the Devon Tower project that went on for a couple of years between the reveal and start of construction.

I'm told this project is funded and ready to start bulldozing buildings. And as mentioned, they are seeking approval to do that next month.

[soondoc]

I hope at some point they need a few more floors so they add them and the height is adjusted to 499 feet.

Do not say that, by doing so it literally makes a few people on here explode and act like immature little kids. Keep in mind, people can say what they want about how they disagree with TIF's (which they act as if they are paying it themselves), street interaction, parking garage debates until it makes your head explode, etc. However, if you want to hammer a point home about increased height of these midrises (also a word that makes their blood boil) they respond with attacks and one guy even sent me a personal message acting like a little teenage girl screaming at me.

Listen, I know I have made comments wishing for more height. I do so hoping to gain momentum that others believe it should be higher as well. In the meeting they gave a shout out to OKC talk, so appparently they do read this stuff and get a feel for what we are thinking. If they feel that many on here expect something a little more grand, then that feedback does get back to them. Whether they care or not, who knows but it does get back. If people are happy with OKC having a big Devon Tower and only one other tower that is 500 foot in this city and it looking silly because it looks like the only real skyscraper, then so be it. I and others who have commented to me think it looks odd. To post those photos of cities with super tall compared to the others was even more silly. They all have one thing in common, lots of other buildings with good height. OKC has basically none, that is my point.

Bottom line is people all are going to focus on whatever they think is important or bothers them about DT. For some it's TIF's, parking garages, street interaction, the park, the boulevard, etc. For me it this project and to an extent the Stage block. I just can't wrap my brain around the fact that this city can't build something taller than the Cotter Ranch Tower. I would rather have 3 buildings in the 35-40 range than 5 of them in the 20-27 foot range and its a no brainer to me. I don't get on here when some posters are posting over and over about how they hate things I mentioned above, I just read it or scroll on past it. Perhaps some should do the same.

[Bellaboo]

soondoc -

You ever watch the movie 'Ground Hog Day' ?

I think your point would be more receptive if you didn't hammer so much every single day. I'd say most people on this board would like more height, but it's not up to us or the city for that matter. It's all about business's and their needs.

[OKCisOK4me]

^^Exactamundo!

[UnFrSaKn]

“At the end of the day, those buildings, charming as they are, do not allow us to meet current business needs,” Pickard said.

The folks working on the designs don't and won't be living here with us. I agree its a complex Rubik's cube of a puzzle that no one has truly solved yet.

[Pete]

To take that quote by John Pickard, that same argument could be made for any building anywhere any time.

It's always easier to build new but that is far from the lone consideration, of course.

[Just the facts]

This tower, no matter what changes are made, will never meet JTF's impossible standard of urbanism. Nor will any other project proposed in OKC.

Not true. I would be completely happy with KayneMo's version. Alas, there is a book that anyone can buy that shows them step by step, topic by topic, how to build walkable urbanism. If I thought the 499 Sheridan developers would read it would buy them a copy (or they could even have my copy).

New Urbanism: Best Practices Guide, Fourth Edition: Robert Steuteville, Philip Langdon, Special Contributors: 9780974502168: Amazon.com: Books

The definitive reference for new urban ideas, practices, and projects. Expanded and completely revised from the 3rd edition, with new chapters on Architectural Styles and Building Types, Land Development, Parking, Health and Aging, and Landscape Design, and revised chapters on Principles, Shaping the Region, New Urbanism in the New Millennium, Revitalizing Cities and Towns, Urban Retail, The Human-Scale Workplace, Planning and Transit, Streets, Civic Building and Spaces, Codes, Legal Issues, Charrettes, Finding the Market, Finance, Building, Affordable Placemaking, Marketing, Building Community, Environment, and Policy, and New Urbanism Abroad. Fully indexed.

[NWOKCGuy]

In the meeting they gave a shout out to OKC talk, so appparently they do read this stuff and get a feel for what we are thinking. If they feel that many on here expect something a little more grand, then that feedback does get back to them. Whether they care or not, who knows but it does get back.

I'm sure everyone would like more height on all the towers. City leaders reference OKC talk and mention thinks about walkability, retail, garage etc. They don't mention height because no one has any say on how tall these will be other than the developers and the companies they are building it for. If we all signed a petition and got 100,000 signatures asking them to add 10 floors, it wouldn't matter unless 1 of those 100,000 signatures had a company with enough employees to lease out the space.

I get you're passionate about height but constantly moaning about the height and referring to this and the OGE towers as midrise when countless people have shown you that by definiton they're highrise (by a long shot) is really tiresome for everyone.

[BDP]

I'm sure everyone would like more height on all the towers.

Not if it meant more parking garages like these.

[Just the facts]

With regards to height, I wouldn't be upset if they cut this building in half and placed it on two different blocks. At least it was spread the traffic out a little bit. There is no reason Devon and BOK need to be in the same building. Heck, for the amount of space BOK is taking up they could move into a remodeled Hotel Black and AutoHotel. If they want to create some community goodwill there would be awesome place to start.

[Jburns]

This is my first post to OKC Talk so my question may be naive. There are large parking lots south of the arena. Why can't these parking garages be built on these lots? A shuttle could take people to their individual buildings. The parking garages could be used for event parking in the evening and on weekends. Do people really have to park within 100 feet of their offices?

[bchris02]

Heck, for the amount of space BOK is taking up they could move into a remodeled Hotel Black and AutoHotel. If they want to create some community goodwill there would be awesome place to start.

That ship has sailed. A new tower is going to be built. The only thing that is currently in question is the placement of the parking garages. I personally wish the tower was a tad higher but the current height is what the developer has determined is economical. I am not worried about the skywalk discouraging pedestrian activity. Calgary is an amazing urban city and it has one of the biggest skywalk networks in the world.

[jn1780]

This is my first post to OKC Talk so my question may be naive. There are large parking lots south of the arena. Why can't these parking garages be built on these lots? A shuttle could take people to their individual buildings. The parking garages could be used for event parking in the evening and on weekends. Do people really have to park within 100 feet of their offices?

1. The blvd and central park is going in these spots.

2. No, but if your spending the money to build a tower your going to want your employees as happy as they can be.

[Pete]

This is my first post to OKC Talk so my question may be naive. There are large parking lots south of the arena. Why can't these parking garages be built on these lots? A shuttle could take people to their individual buildings. The parking garages could be used for event parking in the evening and on weekends. Do people really have to park within 100 feet of their offices?

Welcome to the site!

Please post more.

[s00nr1]

Sigh, what's wrong with building a box like this?

https://www.google.com/maps/@44.9746...oCxbQ7FwUQ!2e0

I'll take a picture from my room later tonight so you can see the different floors. It just works. Nothing complicated about it and it allows for the entire block to be utilized. All parking should be handled ONSITE and should be above or below the streetlevel floor.

Come on! You don't need to twist it, you don't need offsite parking. This building is just like the one to the right of it. Retail (permeable base), then parking, then something useful like commercial or residential. Two buildings in Downtown Minneapolis built exactly like this one should be built.

Nailed it, Sid. Would be too easy.

[gopokes88]

Do not say that, by doing so it literally makes a few people on here explode and act like immature little kids. Keep in mind, people can say what they want about how they disagree with TIF's (which they act as if they are paying it themselves), street interaction, parking garage debates until it makes your head explode, etc. However, if you want to hammer a point home about increased height of these midrises (also a word that makes their blood boil) they respond with attacks and one guy even sent me a personal message acting like a little teenage girl screaming at me.

Listen, I know I have made comments wishing for more height. I do so hoping to gain momentum that others believe it should be higher as well. In the meeting they gave a shout out to OKC talk, so appparently they do read this stuff and get a feel for what we are thinking. If they feel that many on here expect something a little more grand, then that feedback does get back to them. Whether they care or not, who knows but it does get back. If people are happy with OKC having a big Devon Tower and only one other tower that is 500 foot in this city and it looking silly because it looks like the only real skyscraper, then so be it. I and others who have commented to me think it looks odd. To post those photos of cities with super tall compared to the others was even more silly. They all have one thing in common, lots of other buildings with good height. OKC has basically none, that is my point.

Bottom line is people all are going to focus on whatever they think is important or bothers them about DT. For some it's TIF's, parking garages, street interaction, the park, the boulevard, etc. For me it this project and to an extent the Stage block. I just can't wrap my brain around the fact that this city can't build something taller than the Cotter Ranch Tower. I would rather have 3 buildings in the 35-40 range than 5 of them in the 20-27 foot range and its a no brainer to me. I don't get on here when some posters are posting over and over about how they hate things I mentioned above, I just read it or scroll on past it. Perhaps some should do the same.

It was actually more to watch your head explode when it comes in 1 foot short of your arbitrary and ridiculous 500 ft requirement for all buildings.

[Plutonic Panda]

I like the sky bridge down the street even more.

[Bellaboo]

I like the sky bridge down the street even more.

If you look close in all directions, you can see 3 or4 sky bridges on that one street.

[Snowman]

I would encourage people to watch the video from the meeting yesterday rather than rely on my account or Steve's:

SIRE Public Access

Click on video on upper right corner; right click and you can zoom to bigger size.

Pickard's presentation starts at 39:00; KayneMo's letter is read at 1:19 and the committee makes comments after that.

I caught some of the HUB meeting before the presentation started, kind of ironic he highlights that ODOT's contribution to the HUB is a parking lot

[DenverPoke]

Not true. I would be completely happy with KayneMo's version. Alas, there is a book that anyone can buy that shows them step by step, topic by topic, how to build walkable urbanism. If I thought the 499 Sheridan developers would read it would buy them a copy (or they could even have my copy).

New Urbanism: Best Practices Guide, Fourth Edition: Robert Steuteville, Philip Langdon, Special Contributors: 9780974502168: Amazon.com: Books

Hines(and most other large out of state developers) doesn't give a flip about urbanism, they are in the business of making money not building better cities. That said, I don't think the building is that bad. Most cities have a couple of stand-out buildings and a ton of filler. This is fine for that purpose. Of course demolishing the historic buildings is a different issue.

[Laramie]

Once this development is constructed and lit up, this discussion will be over. We'll all be impressed...


499 Sheridan Tower at 433 ft., in height will be more visible than the 110 West 7th Building in Tulsa at 388 ft. as it appears in the bottom left of the pic above.

[Urbanized]

Below grade isn't really cost-effective in this part of downtown, Sid. If this development were 4 blocks north, absolutely. But this is effectively river bottom and the water table is about 15' to 20' below grade, max. Move it to 4th and Walker and it's more like 40' below grade.

[Urbanized]

I agree that it can be better screened by the buildings. Sorry, I didn't look at your shots; was merely responding to your oft-promoted idea of all parking going below grade.

[bchris02]

Hines(and most other large out of state developers) doesn't give a flip about urbanism, they are in the business of making money not building better cities. That said, I don't think the building is that bad. Most cities have a couple of stand-out buildings and a ton of filler. This is fine for that purpose. Of course demolishing the historic buildings is a different issue.

Like.

I also agree that the building isn't near as bad as people are making it out to be. I myself am looking forward to seeing it in the skyline. I think getting the Devon Tower has really spoiled OKC. A project on that level is unusual in a city the size of OKC. Imagine if Devon would have never happened. People would be totally ecstatic about this tower as well as the Clayco towers.