BOK Park Plaza

[PhiAlpha]

Since lets be honest, there is probably very little we can do, if anything, to get them to redesign the overall layout of the project. Is there anything we can do specifically to make sure they make the most out of the retail spaces?

[OKCisOK4me]

How much pedestrian traffic did Hotel Black see before everyone's leases were terminated? Other than vehicular traffic, how much pedestrian interaction did we get from the motor hotel? I'm trying to think positively on this project with regard to what it will create for this city block as compared to what was there before, which I'd guess would be A LOT MORE. Also, everyone keeps talking about how Devon will overshadow this "27 foot midrise". Okay, what's there now, is plenty more short than what's being proposed so that point is nil. We all want tall to fill the gap between Devon and Chase but there may never be a need for it. I hate to see Motor Hotel and the old bus station go but ,other than sentimentalism, how can you be so negative about a project that is going to pay off for the CBD?

[jn1780]

When I worked at Leadership Square in the dead 1980's, there was enough parking. But of course, we had the massive Galleria parking lot which is now the site of Devon; and office vacancy rates were high.

But even so, there were tons of surface lots everywhere. Because I had to pay for my own parking and spent tons of time out of the office, I'd usually just park on a side street or surface lot and walk a couple of blocks. That's not an option any more.

I really think this parking crunch is a pretty new development and the City did see it coming, as they commissioned a parking study several years ago. As it is, they put up the new Main Street Garage and the place was full they day they opened it.

The bottom line is that right now and for the foreseeable future, if you want to build new office space you have to build an ample garage as well, otherwise you will have no place for the new workers to park.

And that won't change until there are a lot more residential downtown and prices are affordable to the average corporate worker.

[bchris02]

How much pedestrian traffic did Hotel Black see before everyone's leases were terminated? Other than vehicular traffic, how much pedestrian interaction did we get from the motor hotel? I'm trying to think positively on this project with regard to what it will create for this city block as compared to what was there before, which I'd guess would be A LOT MORE. Also, everyone keeps talking about how Devon will overshadow this "27 foot midrise". Okay, what's there now, is plenty more short than what's being proposed so that point is nil. We all want tall to fill the gap between Devon and Chase but there may never be a need for it. I hate to see Motor Hotel and the old bus station go but ,other than sentimentalism, how can you be so negative about a project that is going to pay off for the CBD?

Like.

I also would suggest that JTF visit Myriad Gardens the next time he is in town and to take note of how much activity there is even with it surrounded by nothingness in three sides and a corporate tower on the other side.

[s00nr1]

I've posted this building (Omni Hotel San Diego) in the CC hotel thread, but it seems appropriate to put it here considering the design submitted by PC. I think just by adding a bit of curvature and mixing in some texture other than glass 499 would be a much better project. And yes, I know this is a hotel....just try to translate this design to 499 in the commercial office space sense.

[OKCisOK4me]

If Omni ends up being the flagship of the convention hotel, the design may end up something like that. One will never know, though, bc as fast as Devon wants to start their project, they're not going to up and change their design now. Let's face reality guys!

[s00nr1]

If Omni ends up being the flagship of the convention hotel, the design may end up something like that. One will never know, though, bc as fast as Devon wants to start their project, they're not going to up and change their design now. Let's face reality guys!

Obviously.

[Laramie]

Pete:

Impressive & extensive work you've done posting these models. Thanks!

[LocoAko]

When I worked at Leadership Square in the dead 1980's, there was enough parking. But of course, we had the massive Galleria parking lot which is now the site of Devon; and office vacancy rates were high.

But even so, there were tons of surface lots everywhere. Because I had to pay for my own parking and spent tons of time out of the office, I'd usually just park on a side street or surface lot and walk a couple of blocks. That's not an option any more.

I really think this parking crunch is a pretty new development and the City did see it coming, as they commissioned a parking study several years ago. As it is, they put up the new Main Street Garage and the place was full they day they opened it.

The bottom line is that right now and for the foreseeable future, if you want to build new office space you have to build an ample garage as well, otherwise you will have no place for the new workers to park.

I don't know much about the engineering involved, but is building at least a portion of these garages underground not an option? Is the soil/water table really the issue here, or is it primarily a cost thing?

[NWOKCGuy]

If our convention center hotel ends up looking like that Omni people will complain about the mix of materials and try to campaign for them to add 5 more floors.

[s00nr1]

If our convention center hotel ends up looking like that Omni people will complain about the mix of materials and try to campaign for them to add 5 more floors.

Now you're just being ridiculous. Go read the CC hotel thread and see the positive response that particular design received.

[Pete]

I don't know much about the engineering involved, but is building at least a portion of these garages underground not an option? Is the soil/water table really the issue here, or is it primarily a cost thing?

It's just a cost thing. There are underground garages and of course other other underground structures all throughout downtown.

[NWOKCGuy]

Why don't you bookmark this post and if no one complains about the cc hotel when it gets proposed I'll be happy to eat crow.

[gopokes88]

Downtown is going to look really good from the west looking to the east on I44/State Fair Park once all this is done. Coming south on 235 I think Devon might cover everything up.

[CaptDave]

The retail spaces in the garages were clearly an afterthought. At 20' deep, they are barely large enough for pop-up shops.

That was my thought also - set up to fail from the beginning. I don't think a 7-11 could even work in those spaces. I'm not sure they can be viable and will not be anything but a void along those sidewalks for a long time.

Overall it isn't terrible, but incorporating some of hoyasooner's suggestions would improve it quite a bit. The height discussion sometimes gets silly, but it is undeniable the skyline could use some balancing. None of the buildings proposed in the area does this. It is almost like there is an unwritten rule in OKC that no one is allowed to build anything that diminishes Devon's dominance. *sarc*

[SOONER8693]

OK. If I have this right, the building will be 27 stories at 433 ft. Now if you do the math on that, that is approximately 16 ft per level. In looking at the renderings, it appears to me there is about a 3 story/floor crown on top of the 27. Are those being calculated into the overall height? If not, that would add another approximately 48 ft onto this structure. Someone correct me or explain to me how this works or how you think it works.

[Bellaboo]

OK. If I have this right, the building will be 27 stories at 433 ft. Now if you do the math on that, that is approximately 16 ft per level. In looking at the renderings, it appears to me there is about a 3 story/floor crown on top of the 27. Are those being calculated into the overall height? If not, that would add another approximately 48 ft onto this structure. Someone correct me or explain to me how this works or how you think it works.

I'm sure the crown is calculated into the overall height. That means the floor heights average around 14.5 feet.

[Pete]

433 includes the crown.

Here's how it breaks down:

Level 1: 20 feet
Level 2: 20 feet
Level 3-26: 14 feet
Level 27: 15 feet (top occupied floor)
Level 28: 26 feet (mechanical)
Level 29: 16 feet (open crown)

That's a total of 433.

[OkieNate]

So the lighting will go on level 28 and top of 29. Any chance Devon and BOK both have a sign on the building.

[Pete]

Devon doesn't even have a sign on their current building, apart from monuments and entries.

I'm sure it will just be BOK. No doubt part of the deal to get them in the building.

[Plutonic Panda]

Why don't you bookmark this post and if no one complains about the cc hotel when it gets proposed I'll be happy to eat crow.

I'm going to remember this.

[BDP]

This is somewhat of a situation of the chickens coming home to roost from our past.

Think about it; none of the big downtown office buildings have parking.

Leadership Square has a tiny bit below, same for BOK Plaza, and SandRidge Tower. Maybe accomodates 2% of their tenant needs. FNC, City Place, Oklahoma Tower (has some but not enough), Corporate Tower, Chase, Continental, Braniff, Parkside on and on.

Very true. It also seems to be why the bulk of the street life is centered on Park Ave.

I really think this parking crunch is a pretty new development and the City did see it coming, as they commissioned a parking study several years ago. As it is, they put up the new Main Street Garage and the place was full they day they opened it.

The bottom line is that right now and for the foreseeable future, if you want to build new office space you have to build an ample garage as well, otherwise you will have no place for the new workers to park.

Very true as well. And which is why it may be time for the entities that oversee downtown development to take a look at what type of guidelines they can implement that mitigate the negative impact of large parking garages on the districts' environment and come up with some creative solutions that ensure positive elements as well. Maybe some sort of ratio that dictates that part of the structure interact better with the street or some, or some better materials guidelines. I don't think anyone wants all of downtown to be more like Gaylord than Park, but we have to have these garages it seems. So, we need to be enforcing some sort of compromise.

[Pete]

^

Very good point about mitigating the impact of the garages. We clearly have to have them and plenty more are coming.

Perhaps this is a good use for TIF dollars: to provide incentives to put some parking underground; to make them look very nice; and to provide as much street interaction as possible.

In that case, perhaps the city should offer TIF dollars to Hines for these purposes as it pertains to this project. Might be money well spent.

[hfry]

^^^ If we are going to lose some historic structures it would be more easier to stomach if they help set a new standard or underground parking and providing and encouraging street life. TIF dollars would be well spent to show how it can be done here and how to do it right. We have a new school less than a block here with the possibility of 3 garages looking out its front door.

[hfry]

Is there any word on how the DDRC went this morning? I was hoping Steve was going to live tweet it but I haven't seen anything from any of the cities writers.