Oil Drilling by Lake Hefner

[PhiAlpha]

Forget all of the fracking talk and let's consider ourselves with the disruption to the trails and the thousands of people (and animals) who use Hefner. Think of the trucks. The noise. The wear on the lake road. The sound on the golf course. We all have worked for years and years to get the trails and lake where they are today. Are we really going to let this happen to one of the only centrally located natural areas that we have? Bert Cooper must be rolling over in his grave. Don't let this happen! Bikers, runners, walkers, golfers, neighbors, contact your city council person, they will have a vote on this. Send your concerns:

During this busy time of year, it may be difficult to attend the meeting. Therefore, the Utilities Department made it possible to receive comments and questions via email at ocwut-support@okc.gov or by regular mail at:

Oklahoma City Water Utilities Trust
General Manager
420 West Main, suite 500
Oklahoma City, OK 73102

All written comments received by Monday, December 22, will be gathered and summarized in a report to the Oklahoma City Water Utilities Trust in January 2015.

I got a little overzealous about my growing annoyance with the stigma around fracking but this was really the point I was trying to make.

[law]

This is a great plan! Hefner just above 49,000 acre/ft. Remember, 40,000 is the lowest they can go. Canton at 1601.95 or 18,500 acre/ft or so, and much of that would be lost to the riverbed. And they're considering drilling at Hefner. I have no problems with the oilfield, but drilling/fracking/production is not without some risks. Not any room for error.

[rtz]

Who owns the land on the other side of the road from that spot? The place with the red/white/blue gates and no trespassing signs? I always thought that was the disputed drilling site?

Are they drilling for oil or gas? How do they know anything is down there? The lake is both downhill and downstream from the site. If they have a blow out; no way will that mess not get in the lake. It's just too close to the lake and no one wants the tanks to be there in the future. Look at that burning flame site over by Penn Square mall/Bell Isle.

Details on the meeting: Friends Of Lake Hefner | Oklahoma (OK)

[ljbab728]

Oklahoma City residents worried about Lake Hefner oil drilling proposal bring concerns to water trust | News OK

Several residents worried about possible oil drilling near Lake Hefner discussed their concerns with the Oklahoma City Water Utilities Trust at its regular meeting Tuesday.
“This has become a lightning rod for our neighborhood in north Oklahoma City because the presence of an oil-drilling rig on the south shore of Lake Hefner seriously jeopardizes the quality of our water,” said Tim Kirk, who lives on NW 72, near the proposed drill site.
City Manager Jim Couch, who serves as a trustee on the water trust, reminded residents it still was early in the process.

Any proposal would have to be approved by the trust and the city council.

“Having a public meeting and having public input is not a wrong thing to do to start the process,” Couch said.

“Just because we have a meeting a week before Christmas, we’re not trying to railroad anything through.”

[betts]

What are the arguments FOR allowing this? Is this company big enough/solvent enough to financially cover the damage they could potentially cause?

[Midtowner]

What company? This well will probably be placed in an LLC separate from the company. The oil and gas industry is pretty awful about being responsible for the environmental damage they cause.

[Just the facts]

In a world of over-supply I am actually surprised anyone is proposing a new well.

[Snowman]

saw a neighborhood email floating around (not ours, but made it to our HOA president anyhow) and the second sentence was this...

There is a Lake Hefner Drilling Proposal (fracking) public meeting that we just found out about.

...

I remember seeing this come up in sub-committee meetings what seems like at least six months to maybe even a year ago, I understand people finding out about this might be frustrated but that is part of why if your neighborhood has something like one of the major lakes, the river, a golf course or an airport in/near it that has committees that meet which get notifications and have to approve things on their land, the HOA ought to have someone either going to the meeting or at least watching the replays posted online.

It would be a good idea to also filter through what is requests to planning commission to see if any of the addresses are nearby. I think developers are only required to notify people within like 300 feet of projects, though sometimes on something like this they will be requested to do try a little harder than the legal minimum.

[PhiAlpha]

What company? This well will probably be placed in an LLC separate from the company. The oil and gas industry is pretty awful about being responsible for the environmental damage they cause.

Historically, that statement definitely holds water (hence why the OERB was formed), but now it largely depends on the company. Most mid-sized to large companies are very good at environmental remediation after accidents have occurred. Smaller companies can be a crap shoot. I don't know much about Pedestal, but I do know they operate several wells in North Edmond, I believe they just drilled a new one between Sorghum Mill and Coffee Creek off of Sooner Rd. that didn't cause any issues to my knowledge (though it is a much less populated, less sensitive area).

[Jersey Boss]

The waste can be disposed of by dropping it into the subduction zones where tectonic plates meet. It will then be carried down into the magma, where there's presumably plenty of quite active radiation keeping it molten, and the many miles of dirt and water on top provide shielding for us puny mortals.

In the long run, that would be far less damaging to our prospects of long habitation of the planet, than is our present use of fossil fuels that -- if one believes the most vocal environmentalists -- will kill us off before another century goes by.

And history clearly shows that properly operated nuclear plants are far safer than conventional energy sources. In the nearly 70 years since the dawn of the nuclear age, precisely three persons have died due to nuclear-power incidents, and even that single event may have been suicide-and-murder due to a jealous cuckold.

Some 60 years ago I personally attended an oilfield accident that claimed that same number of lives, and in the same year also attended a dual-fatality traffic accident involving the oil industry. Those five deaths were only a fraction of the total during that period for a single state, much less the nation. Coal mining frequently kills dozens at a blow, and disables many more with black lung disease.

As for the media-driven rush to blame "fracking" for most everything, we must remember that fracking has been normal procedure in the oil patch for well over a century. Initially, they used nitroglycerin torpedos to do the job. That's what caused the three fatalities I mentioned above; 100 quarts of nitro shredded the men attempting to lower a single quart into the casing.

The difference these days is the use of high-pressure liquids to break up the rock, instead of explosives.

While the jury is still out on all the details, it appears to be generally accepted that disposal of waste water (and for that matter, other appropriate liquids) into special-purpose wells drilled at certain critical locations is probably providing a lubricant to existing fault lines, which allows the omnipresent pressure of the moving plates to slide a bit easier, thus creating swarms of small quakes such as we are experiencing. The quakes may be many miles away from the disposal wells; it's not yet predictable.

That suggests that, rather than fearing all fracking, we should attempt to locate and ban those "certain critical locations" for disposal wells and thus reduce the impact on the fault lines.

That, however, might be a sensible approach. And it definitely wouldn't sell any ads.

As for "who would insure" against liability, it's always true that when there's a buck to be made, someone will step up and offer to make it.

Jim, I am confused by your assertion that "only three persons have died due to nuclear-power incidents".

List of nuclear and radiation accidents by death toll - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Chernobyl disaster[edit]

4,000 fatalities[1][2] – Chernobyl disaster, Ukraine, April 26, 1986. 56 direct deaths (47 accident workers and nine children with thyroid cancer) and it is estimated that there were 4,000 extra cancer deaths among the approximately 600,000 most highly exposed people.[3]

Estimates of the total number of deaths potentially resulting from the Chernobyl disaster vary enormously: Thirty one deaths are directly attributed to the accident, all among the reactor staff and emergency workers.[4] A UNSCEAR report places the total confirmed deaths from radiation at 64 as of 2008. The World Health Organization (WHO) suggests it could reach 4,000 civilian deaths, a figure which does not include military clean-up worker casualties.[5] A 2006 report predicted 30,000 to 60,000 cancer deaths as a result of Chernobyl fallout.[6] A Greenpeace report puts this figure at 200,000 or more.[7] A disputed Russian publication, Chernobyl, concludes that 985,000 premature cancer deaths occurred worldwide between 1986 and 2004 as a result of radioactive contamination from Chernobyl
Kyshtym disaster[edit]

The Kyshtym disaster, which occurred at Mayak in the Soviet Union, was rated as a level 6 on the International Nuclear Event Scale, the third most severe incident after Chernobyl and Fukushima. Because of the intense secrecy surrounding Mayak, it is difficult to estimate the death toll of Kyshtym. One book claims that "in 1992, a study conducted by the Institute of Biophysics at the former Soviet Health Ministry in Chelyabinsk found that 8,015 people had died within the preceding 32 years as a result of the accident."[11] By contrast, only 6,000 death certificates have been found for residents of the Tech riverside between 1950 and 1982 from all causes of death,[12] though perhaps the Soviet study considered a larger geographic area affected by the airborne plume. The most commonly quoted estimate is 200 deaths due to cancer, but the origin of this number is not clear. More recent epidemiological studies suggest that around 49 to 55 cancer deaths among riverside residents can be associated to radiation exposure.[12] This would include the effects of all radioactive releases into the river, 98% of which happened long before the 1957 accident, but it would not include the effects of the airborne plume that was carried north-east.[13] The area closest to the accident produced 66 diagnosed cases of chronic radiation syndrome, providing the bulk of the data about this condition.[14]

Windscale fire[edit]

33+ cancer fatalities (estimated by UK government)[15][16] – Windscale, United Kingdom, October 8, 1957. The Windscale fire resulted when uranium metal fuel ignited inside plutonium production piles; surrounding dairy farms were contaminated.[15][16]

Other accidents[edit]
17 fatalities – Instituto Oncologico Nacional of Panama, August 2000 – March 2001. Patients receiving treatment for prostate cancer and cancer of the cervix receive lethal doses of radiation.[17][18]
13 fatalities – Radiotherapy accident in Costa Rica, 1996. 114 patients received an overdose of radiation from a Cobalt-60 source that was being used for radiotherapy.[19]
11 fatalities – Radiotherapy accident in Zaragoza, Spain, December 1990. Cancer patients receiving radiotherapy; 27 patients were injured.[20]
10 fatalities – Soviet submarine K-431 reactor accident, August 10, 1985. 49 people suffered radiation injuries.[21]
10 fatalities – Columbus radiotherapy accident, 1974–1976, 88 injuries from Cobalt-60 source.[18][22]
9 fatalities – Soviet submarine K-27 reactor accident, 24 May 1968. 83 people were injured.[18]
8 fatalities – Soviet submarine K-19 reactor accident, July 4, 1961. More than 30 people were over-exposed to radiation.[20]
8 fatalities – Radiation accident in Morocco, March 1984.[23]
7 fatalities – Houston radiotherapy accident, 1980.[18][22]
5 fatalities – Lost radiation source, Baku, Azerbaijan, USSR, October 5, 1982. 13 injuries.[18]
4 fatalities – Mihama Nuclear Power Plant accident, August 9, 2004. Hot water and steam leaked from a broken pipe (not actually a radiation accident).[24]
4 fatalities – Goiânia accident, September 13, 1987. 249 people received serious radiation contamination from lost radiotherapy source.[25]
4 fatalities – Radiation accident in Mexico City, 1962.
3 fatalities – SL-1 accident (US Army) 1961.
3 fatalities – Samut Prakan radiation accident: Three deaths and ten injuries resulted when a radiation-therapy unit was dismantled, February 2000.[26]
2 fatalities – Tokaimura nuclear accident, nuclear fuel reprocessing plant. Japan, September 30, 1999.[27]
2 fatalities - Meet Halfa, Egypt, May 2000; two fatalities due to radiography accident.[28]
1 fatality – Mayapuri radiological accident, India, April 2010.[26]
1 fatality – Daigo Fukuryū Maru March 1, 1954
1 fatality – Louis Slotin May 21, 1946
1 fatality – Harry K. Daghlian, Jr., August 21, 1945 at Los Alamos National Laboratory in New Mexico.
1 fatality – Cecil Kelley criticality accident, December 30, 1958 at the Los Alamos National Laboratory.[29]
1 fatality - Operator error at Wood River Junction nuclear facility, 1964, Rhode Island, Robert Peabody dies 49 hours later
1 fatality – Malfunction INES level 4 at RA2 in Buenos Aires, Argentina, 1983, operator Osvaldo Rogulich dies days later.
1 fatality - San Salvador, El Salvador, 1989; one fatality due to violation of safety rules at 60Co irradiation facility.[28]
1 fatality - Soreq, Israel, 1990; one fatality due to violation of safety rules at 60Co irradiation facility.[28]
1 fatality - Tammiku, Estonia, 1994; one fatality from disposed 137Cs source.[28]
1 fatality - Sarov, Russia, June 1997; one fatality due to violation of safety rules

[TheTravellers]

Not strictly fracking-related, but I found this interesting, all kind of common sense, but I never thought of it this way (only a few paragraphs long, not really technical):

Why a car’s engine has more integrity than a shale gas well

[OKCisOK4me]

Wow, this thread skewed...

[Jersey Boss]

For those who would like to attend the recently called for public discussion with city officials on this matter. https://www.facebook.com/events/945943868789652/

[Jim Kyle]

Jim, I am confused by your assertion that "only three persons have died due to nuclear-power incidents".

My thoughts outran my fingers when I typed that, and I failed to see the omission. My intended statement was "in this country, only three persons" and of course Chernobyl had a much higher death toll. It's still too early to have any clear idea how to apportion the butcher's bill between the tsunami and the Fukashima plant.

However it does appear that more than three have died in this country in the 70 years of the nuclear age. The toll is still quite literally orders of magnitude smaller than that of the fossil-fuel industry (coal and petroleum).

I can well understand the panic-stricken reaction of almost everyone. When something like Chernobyl happens, it's horrible. And Murphy assures us that when anything can go wrong, it will -- meaning that since perfection is unachievable, leaving a possibility (no matter how small) of error, such disasters cannot be avoided entirely.

The problem is that existing fossil-fuel technology kills many more people outright, although doing it in such small lots that the losses go almost unseen by those not directly involved. It also, if the current doom-cryers are correct, may very soon make the planet totally uninhabitable by any form of life. So far, that risk has seemed to be small enough to be ignored in any meaningful way that would impact our lifestyles. But we do seem to be between the rock and the hard place, having to choose which unpleasant way to end our existence.

I see no likelihood of the world changing its approaches to any significant degree. The fear of radiation is far too ingrained by now, even though the bare fact is that our very lives depend entirely on our being irradiated by the sun's energy. Instead, we'll install coal scrubbers, switch from burning fuel oil to burning methane, and count on "alternative sources" such as solar cells or wind or hydrogen. Never mind that all of these alternatives require more energy to create than they are ever likely to produce once they are in place...

[Just the facts]

My thoughts outran my fingers when I typed that, and I failed to see the omission. My intended statement was "in this country, only three persons" and of course Chernobyl had a much higher death toll. It's still too early to have any clear idea how to apportion the butcher's bill between the tsunami and the Fukashima plant.

However it does appear that more than three have died in this country in the 70 years of the nuclear age. The toll is still quite literally orders of magnitude smaller than that of the fossil-fuel industry (coal and petroleum).

I would just like to point out - if the thousands of deaths years after the Chernobyl accident are counted shouldn't that be weighed against the untold number of deaths from non-accidents at coal plants?

[White Peacock]

I've had people who were directly involved in fracking tell me they caused earthquakes and quite frankly, I don't care. I'll take the small tremors over the loss of economic impact that fracking is adding to the economy.

It's probably better not to trigger seismic activity where the epicenter is immediately under a lake/dam.

[Plutonic Panda]

It's probably better not to trigger seismic activity where the epicenter is immediately under a lake/dam.

I do agree with that. I am opposed to this fracking site.

[mkjeeves]

For those who would like to attend the recently called for public discussion with city officials on this matter. https://www.facebook.com/events/945943868789652/

I have a feeling they might have underestimated the interest level and crowd size when they picked this location but we'll see.

On that page there's a related link to this one...5:30 protest before the meeting.

https://www.facebook.com/events/7079...related_events

[Jersey Boss]

I have a feeling they might have underestimated the interest level and crowd size when they picked this location but we'll see.

On that page there's a related link to this one...5:30 protest before the meeting.

https://www.facebook.com/events/7079...related_events

I think the city figured that by announcing the public meeting a few days before the meeting itself and holding it a week before Christmas, they would be able to ram this through. They were probably hoping for a winter storm as well.

[ylouder]

A whole bunch of win by the owners of this company...whats there to worry about??

Four siblings from a prominent Tulsa family are suing their brother and a cousin, alleging that the two are using the family's oil company as "their personal piggy-bank."
They seek to have a receiver appointed to run or dissolve the company.
The four plaintiffs are siblings of George Singer, 63, of Tulsa, and
cousins of David Singer, 48, of Nichols Hills, a suburb of Oklahoma
City.
The suit by Mark Singer, Stephen Singer, Ellen Singer and Sandra Singer Anderson was filed Monday in Tulsa County District Court. The suit also names Singer Bros. LLC, the Tulsa-based oil and gas company started in 1962 by brothers Alex and Joe Singer, both now deceased.
"The Manager-Defendants continue to treat Singer Bros. LLC as if it were their personal piggy-bank, exercising to the fullest their powers of management and rejecting to the fullest their fiduciary duties as
managers," states the suit.
In 2009, an arbitration panel awarded the four siblings and a cousin, Amy Singer, a $4.4 million judgment against George and David on behalf of the company, records show. The award was restitution for unauthorized expenses including luxury automobiles, a share of a corporate jet, tickets to sporting events and lavish nonbusiness travel.
The newly filed suit alleges the two managers have continued to waste the company assets for their own benefit.

[mkjeeves]

^ I tracked that back to this story. http://www.tulsaworld.com/news/local...191d5d486.html

I guess that would be this George Singer, listed as Chairman of the Board and co-CEO for Pedestal Oil Company...

Business Profiles and Company Information | ZoomInfo.com

David Singer doesn't seem to have as high of an internet profile but Manta lists him as president of Pedestal.

[David]

From here:

Public input requested on possible oil exploration at Lake Hefner
The Oklahoma City Water Utilities Trust has received an amended unsolicited proposal from Pedestal Oil regarding oil and gas operation on Lake Hefner property. Many citizens have contacted us about this proposal.

Citizen input is very important and the first step in any approval process. The trust appreciates and welcomes comments and questions.

The Utilities Department scheduled a neighborhood meeting at 6 pm, Thursday, December 18, to re-introduce the proposal first discussed in 2011 with representatives from neighborhoods near the lake property and the Friends of Lake Hefner.

The neighborhood meeting is the very first step in an approval process that includes consideration by the Oklahoma City Water Utilities Trust, the Oklahoma Corporation Commission, the Planning Commission and the City Council.

The documents below may provide information and help address questions or concerns. Drilling and pumping operations near water supply lakes in Oklahoma City are required to follow stringent rules for development and operation. Land leases generate income for recreation improvements at Oklahoma City’s lakes Hefner, Draper and Overholser.

OCWUT - Rules Controlling Drilling Operations (PDF)

Pedestal Oil Proposal (PDF)

Comments or questions may be sent via email at ocwut-support@okc.gov or by mail at:

Oklahoma City Water Utilities Trust
General Manager
420 West Main, suite 500
Oklahoma City, OK 73102

All written comments received by Monday, December 22, will be gathered and summarized in a report to the Oklahoma City Water Utilities Trust early 2015.

[Jim Kyle]

^ I tracked that back to this story. Singer siblings again in battle over operation of Singer Bros. LLC - Tulsa World: Local

I guess that would be this George Singer, listed as Chairman of the Board and co-CEO for Pedestal Oil Company...

Business Profiles and Company Information | ZoomInfo.com

David Singer doesn't seem to have as high of an internet profile but Manta lists him as president of Pedestal.

Another TEEMCO in the offing???

[Plutonic Panda]

"First, there will be a protest at 5:30 p.m. at the Will Rogers Conservatory building on N.W. 36th Street. Right after that protest, there will be a public meeting at 6 p.m. where citizens can voice their opinions and ask questions."

- Oklahomans To Protest Against Drilling At Lake Hefner - News9.com - Oklahoma City, OK - News, Weather, Video and Sports |

[mkjeeves]

Total fail by our city leaders. (Planned?) There are more people standing outside in the rain than inside the tiny venue. Parking is impossible, of course, because of where it is.