Preftakes Block

[kevinpate]

One thing I do not get .... all that money plowed into acquisition, all that time,and money, leaving land and structures idle ... for this.
It isn't ugly. It isn't horrid. It also isn't all that special.


What's that saying? Oh yeah, better than crappy makes movers and shakers happy.

[s00nr1]

I have yet to see a rendering that visualizes the BS skybridge. Coincidence? I think not.

[Chadanth]

I have yet to see a rendering that visualizes the BS skybridge. Coincidence? I think not.

I hope they don't do a skybridge. People can use the sidewalk. We need more ground-level retail in this area, and I hope at least the parking decks have something integrated. I don't want a glass/concrete wall on this block.

[Urbanized]

OCURA has no purview here. This would be subject to DDRC alone.

[Pete]

There will be two skybridges: One between the tower and the north garage (across the alleyway) and another from the north garage to the Devon complex across Hudson (shown in green below).

The west garage will be attached at ground level to the tower.


This should surprise no one. Devon/Nichols said they wanted to be attached to the Underground system and part of the Devon TIF went towards the construction of the new skybridge from the rotunda through the City Center East Garage and into Oklahoma Tower.

[s00nr1]

Who here thinks this design is any better than the original Stage Center tower design we all hated? I don't.

[bchris02]

Let me say that losing the very good urban fabric that is already on-site (and paid for) being lost for a parking garage taking up the whole block and a skywalk makes me wonder if I need to stop giving a **** about OKC.

OKC is making great strides, but if you expect this city to ever fully embrace urbanist ideals like European cities or cities in Ecotopia such as Portland and Seattle, you will be waiting a long, long time. Yes, there will be great urbanist projects here and there (such as the Wheeler district if it happens) and developments like the streetcar but on a grand scale I don't think urbanism will ever be a top priority here. That just isn't OKC. There comes a point where you have to accept that a city, no matter what you would like it to become, is what it is.

Back on this tower, it's definitely not bad. It's not unique at all and I am disappointed about the height. I think OKC is fast running out of opportunities to get something taller than the Chase Tower. This will still be a nice addition to the skyline though. Hopefully the owners go with an attractive lighting scheme to really make it pop at night.

Imagine what the skyline will look like even when this is getting built along with the Clayco towers. Five cranes on Hudson. That will make an impression to visitors just as much if not more than another 50 story building would.

[Motley]

The DDRC may ask for some changes to the final design. However, if they request the addition of some architectural feature, I am sure that will kick off a new round of hand wringing since in the eyes of some, the modern design will be corrupted. Would we support TIF money to increase the visual elements to this project?

[BoulderSooner]

I'm sure they will ask for tif either way

[NWOKCGuy]

Who here thinks this design is any better than the original Stage Center tower design we all hated? I don't.

I think you should refresh your memory on what the original SC tower rendering looked like. This is more along the lines of what I was hoping that would look like when all was said and done. (I'm much happier with what Clayco eventually proposed.)

Do I wish it was taller? Sure. Do I hate that we're going to lose some older buildings? Absolutely. I think this is a perfectly fine building though and will look great with the rest of downtown.

[hfry]

I think all who are disappointed in this project need to do as Pete suggests and write the DDRC and well as the city council. As it has been pointed out that they have never denied demolishing anything historic but just as with the downtown boulevard the public voice can make a difference. The positives are we are getting a new office tower that will help downtown continue to grow west and south but the two parking garages are something that seem poorly thought out. To me the north parking garage is for Devon especially since the skywalk will directly connect it but i fail to understand why developers are unwilling to try underground parking. If they try to ask for TIF funding I would much rather there be a new emphasis on awarding TIF for something new and more costly like below ground parking to hopefully set a new standard and eliminate blocks of concrete walls. I am also curious if the parking garages are being set up so that new towers or housing could be built ontop in the future. To watch Pickard talk about setting the urban setting just makes me hope that there is much more at play here with the possibility of more towers on this block. With 5 new towers coming I think in the past we would have jumped at the opportunity to do whatever the developer wants to make it happen but this is our downtown and we know how important it is to get it right now.
Sites like OKCtalk allow us the opportunity and means to voice concerns and be more aware of projects months before they appear in the paper. I can't even imagine the 80s and finding about this type of project less than a week before the architect presents tot he DDRC in my morning paper. It would have been ludicrous, so for that thank you Pete for pulling in this information and keeping us aware and properly informed.

[s00nr1]

I think you should refresh your memory on what the original SC tower rendering looked like.

Other than the height of the proposed PickardChilton tower, and some better Photoshop/artistic impact work, what makes it any better than this?

[hfry]

I also think that this tower and the 4 from Clayco all being along the streetcar route show how important it will be but also how important street interaction should be for such prime downtown land.

[s00nr1]

I also think that this tower and the 4 from Clayco all being along the streetcar route show how important it will be but also how important street interaction should be for such prime downtown land.

Who needs a streetcar when you have two massive parking garages on every square block?

[bchris02]

Other than the height of the proposed PickardChilton tower, and some better Photoshop/artistic impact work, what makes it any better than this?

I would say its a significant step up from that.

[hfry]

Who needs a streetcar when you have two massive parking garages on every square block?

Exactly, why waste the streetcar going directly past it, it is no falsehood that we need parking downtown and I would love to be able to drive downtown(until we have some mass transit), park in a garage a few blocks from the streetcar and ride it to where I need it. But there is no reason that we should have 4 new(two with clayco and 2 here) all within a block of the route. I hope the DDRC at least mentions this.

[Richard at Remax]

I was hoping it would be somewhat closer in design to BG Group Place (630') in Houston, another Hines project

[stlokc]

I'm sure that by now many, if not most, of us have viewed the video on NewsOk that Steve Lackmeyer conducted.

First of all, I really like Steve and I enjoyed watching the interviews.

Here's what struck me. I haven't been home in a while, and it's been quite a long time since I've been on that particular block, but I was actually impressed with what I see as the existing "vitality" on that block. Now maybe most of those historic buildings are vacant, but the streetscape as it currently exists looks like an interesting and busy urban block. Different buildings of different ages and different heights. Most of what we see in the background of those interviews is going to go away in favor of a monolith glass tower and parking garages. The architect spoke to "respecting" historic buildings and "respecting" Devon. Important to "respect" Devon, sure, but my untrained eye doesn't see a lot of respect being given to the historic fabric.

I appreciate and love the comments from the two gentlemen praising OKC but wish one or the other one had addressed the cost-benefit, what we are gaining vs. what we are losing. It doesn't fit with the "rah rah" narrative of shiny, new, tall(er), but that equation should have been addressed.

Will this "hinge" as one of them put it create a downtown intersection that looks like a downtown intersection or a couple of similiar buildings that feel vaguely "corporate campus-like?" The jury is out.

[s00nr1]

I was hoping it would be somewhat closer in design to BG Group Place (630') in Houston, another Hines project

YES....especially the integration with existing historic structures on both sides.

[bchris02]

I was hoping it would be somewhat closer in design to BG Group Place (630') in Houston, another Hines project

That would be amazing and it's really a shame they didn't do that instead. They could have went with a skinnier tower and saved the historic structures. My bet is that in Houston there was something in place that forced the developer to do that. It all goes back to what catch22 said about the fact that in OKC there is too much power concentrated in too few people's hands. Developers, ultimately, are in it for bottom dollar and nothing else. Until something changes with the leadership of OKC the head-scratching developments will continue.

[Pete]

This isn't a Hines project; it's a Devon project and always has been.

Hines staff have been working out of the Devon offices for at least a year.

[warreng88]

Pete, any idea as to the size of the parking garages?

[Pete]

They are both 9/10 levels. Very similar to the existing Devon garage.

[Spartan]

I am surprised, based on Pickard Chilton's experience in Chicago, that they didn't use the parking as a base structure for the tower. That's a universally applied design approach in Chicago for anything that has parking, which is more plentiful than you'd think.

We have to start incorporating and using parking much more efficiently. I agree that parking is integral to the equation for real estate in OKC - this may be the one area where downtown should be experiencing a natural advantage over the rest of the city, with the ability to partner on parking, share it at different staged hours, and now design can really mask garages well.

[Paseofreak]

This isn't a Hines project; it's a Devon project and always has been.

Hines staff have been working out of the Devon offices for at least a year.

Larry Nichols, AICP. It all makes sense now. No sense wasting further breathe or keystrokes.