Development that will make Dallas and KC Jealous?

[Motley]

Wasn't the disappointing redev of Belle Isle due to the economic collapse? They started the process and then when the economy tanked, they were forced to salvage what they could of their investment by opening a mid-range shopping center instead of a high-end destination.

[Pete]

^

Yes, that is largely true. But, of course, they could have merely waited to demolish the plant and develop the property until the economy recovered.

Think about how prime that property would be now.

[Motley]

True. However, I don't know if the developers felt they had too much already invested to wait out the downturn. Also no one knew when the economy would rebound. There was talk of a full blown depression in 2008 and early 2009. It looked like a complete meltdown for a while.

[warreng88]

If I remember correctly, wasn't that Belle Isle Wal-Mart built around 2000? I know it was under construction right after I started college at OCU.

[bchris02]

Wasn't the disappointing redev of Belle Isle due to the economic collapse? They started the process and then when the economy tanked, they were forced to salvage what they could of their investment by opening a mid-range shopping center instead of a high-end destination.

I think you are thinking of Tuscana. It was supposed to be a high-end mixed use lifestyle center. The economy tanked and it was downgraded to an apartment complex.

The Belle Isle power plant was redeveloped at the tail-end of the '90s boom. It too was supposed to be far more impressive than was actually built, but I blame OKC standards at the time moreso than the economy. It was developed around the same time Hogan won the bid for Lower Bricktown if that says anything. Belle Isle and Lower Bricktown are probably the two biggest lost opportunities in OKC development during the post-Pei era.

[Motley]

I am most likely confused on the matter, but if the bad economy wasn't the cause, we go back to the fact that for whatever reason, OKC keeps getting disappointing developments.

[traxx]

I think you are thinking of Tuscana. It was supposed to be a high-end mixed use lifestyle center. The economy tanked and it was downgraded to an apartment complex.

The Belle Isle power plant was redeveloped at the tail-end of the '90s boom. It too was supposed to be far more impressive than was actually built, but I blame OKC standards at the time moreso than the economy. It was developed around the same time Hogan won the bid for Lower Bricktown if that says anything. Belle Isle and Lower Bricktown are probably the two biggest lost opportunities in OKC development during the post-Pei era.

Lesser Bricktown was just a dirt field before development. There's nothing really worth saving there now. It's possible that some time in the future those buildings can be razed and the area developed properly. Belle Isle on the other hand; we'll never get that structure back. An opportunity gone forever.

[bchris02]

I am most likely confused on the matter, but if the bad economy wasn't the cause, we go back to the fact that for whatever reason, OKC keeps getting disappointing developments.

I think it probably goes back to what was being discussed in the OG&E thread in that city leadership has little experience outside of Oklahoma having only Tulsa and pre-MAPS OKC as measuring sticks. Perspective was even worse in the early 2000s. Developers will go cheap if they know they can get away with it. It's simple economics. The Criterion Concert Hall is a perfect example of what I am talking about. Ten years ago the original, minimalist design would have likely been approved no questions asked. Today the design review process worked and the city looks poised to get a quality concert venue both inside and out.

[warreng88]

I think we also need to think back to what OKC was like when this was torn down in the late 90's. Several of the initial MAPS projects had just opened or had been really close to opening, Chesapeake hadn't started to develop the rapid growth yet, Devon wasn't nearly the catalyst for DT like it is now. Looking back on it, I am not surprised it was torn down and a Wal-Mart built in its place.

[Motley]

Man, it truly is frustrating. Austin had the Arboretum area back at least to 1989 and before Austin had fully arrived as a destination city. It is time for OKC to have awesome projects. That is why I remain such a cheerleader for the OG&E development, I want to see OKC get a first class development that will set a new level of expectation for all developments.

[Spartan]

And a Chili's and an Old Navy! The Belle Isle project is an economic developer's dream come true. They turned a crappy non-contributing site into a revenue-making site that everyone loves (because they can park their cars). Textbook.

[bombermwc]

warreng, you're right. I started at OCU in 2000 and it was opening around that time, so all pre-collapse.

And as Spartan says, it's a prime example of strip mall hell. I mean I guess you could look at it by saying the stores aren't the type that typically have people frequenting from one to the next...ie they don't drive their car from one to the next. But the whole thing was built in a way that definitely does NOT promote walkability. They had a lot of the same reasons for doing what they did as others like them

1 - they can build the separate buildings in phases (ie walmart strip, then matress store strip, then pei wei strip) as they get more capital flowing.
2 - people are lazy and they don't want to walk. We gripe about outdoor malls but don't want to walk INTO the mall...go figure
3 - it's the trend to get "curb" parking on places these days

To bad we couldn't have seen something with a big box on one side, a walkable plaza in the middle, and a strip of shops on the other....or forget the big box and at least make the other portion into something walkable. I can't hate them any more than the countless others around town (and still being built), I just wish OKC would create some standards on these things.

[traxx]

There's nothing that says that big box developments can't be walkable too. I know people say, "It's Okahoma. No one will want to park and walk." But how do we know until we're given something different? I think if you had a Walmart and Sam's development and instead of facing them toward the street with huge parking lots and other stores residing in those parking lots, you made WM and Sam''s face each other on each end and have the other stores face in on the sides and have a nice, pleasant courtyard and give shoppers a pleasant experience, they'll come. They'll walk. We all know it's more healthy to walk and better for the environment, but you have to give people a reason to walk.

[Motley]

I have no issue with a strip shopping center full of big box stores. They can be placed anywhere and fulfill a market need, but Belle Isle could have been special and unique to the city. It was a missed opportunity to put the site to a better use than a standard shopping center.

[Plutonic Panda]

I wonder if this is it? This was proposed back in 2007.







This would be awesome to see revived!

http://www.okctalk.com/general-civic...bricktown.html

[ljbab728]

Nice, but I don't think it would make either city jealous.

[Plutonic Panda]

Nice, but I don't think it would make either city jealous.

True. I'm not sure about KC, but I know it wouldn't make Dallas jealous.

[bchris02]

I wonder if this is it? This was proposed back in 2007.







This would be awesome to see revived!

http://www.okctalk.com/general-civic...bricktown.html

I would really like to see that revived. The renderings remind me of the developments a lot of other cities were building in the mid-2000s in their downtowns and is a far cry from Lower Bricktown. It's a shame it didn't get built.

[mugofbeer]

Looks like a couple of the mall redevelopments here in Denver

[traxx]

Well, as long as this thread is filled with our speculation as to what Steve meant, I'm gonna revive the Heartland Disney Park legend. That'd certainly make KC and Dallas jelly.

[OKCisOK4me]

True. I'm not sure about KC, but I know it wouldn't make Dallas jealous.

Kansas City has The Plaza, which spans over several city blocks and would blow ^^that development^^ out of the water.

[Motley]

Since this thread has not been bumped for sometime... A new take on the traditional Ferris Wheel. A tower like this would be great for OKC.

Tower proposed as alternative to giant Ferris wheel on San Diego Bay | UTSanDiego.com

[Bullbear]

Thats a pretty cool tower.. I couldn't help but vote just to see what their readers were voting for. it appears most prefer no tower or Ferris wheel. Its good to know that people don't want anything cool in other communities not just in OKC..lol

[Plutonic Panda]

I could be wrong, but I think Steve said this was dead in his last chat or the one before it.

[shawnw]

What killed it?