Streetcar

[AP]

I asked Steve some questions in the chat today and he kinda off-handedly mentioned trusting that the companies would deliver quality streetcars. I tried to get him to clarify why anyone would not trust the companies and he seemed confused as to what I was asking. Does anyone know what I'm referring to?

[HangryHippo]

I asked Steve some questions in the chat today and he kinda off-handedly mentioned trusting that the companies would deliver quality streetcars. I tried to get him to clarify why anyone would not trust the companies and he seemed confused as to what I was asking. Does anyone know what I'm referring to?

Yes, he stated something about not trusting the quality of some vendors, and when asked again, didn't back up that first assertion. Very weird.

[AP]

Yes, he stated something about not trusting the quality of some vendors, and when asked again, didn't back up that first assertion. Very weird.

Yeah. I even tried to clarify my question a second time to no avail. Anyone know what he could be referencing or why we would need to worry about quality from any of the vendors?

[Just the facts]

Maybe there is some ill-conceived concern with manufacturers in the Czech Republic or with actual concern about China.

[Urban Pioneer]

Keep in mind our selection is based on "Best Value" and not the lowest price.

[AP]

I was just wondering because it seemed like he might know something about a vendor that made him not trust the quality of the vehicles but didn't clarify where that was coming from.

[Plutonic Panda]

Keep in mind our selection is based on "Best Value" and not the lowest price.

Could the cars ever be upupgraded in the future for best quality?

[John]

I asked Steve some questions in the chat today and he kinda off-handedly mentioned trusting that the companies would deliver quality streetcars. I tried to get him to clarify why anyone would not trust the companies and he seemed confused as to what I was asking. Does anyone know what I'm referring to?

One of the vendors has quite a backlog of orders to fill, so he could mean the possibility of delay in delivery of the trains.

...or he could be referring to the Chinese company's bid.

[AP]

You think he's implying that because it's Chinese it's poor quality??

[NWOKCGuy]

[Urban Pioneer]

Could the cars ever be upupgraded in the future for best quality?

How about "best quality" now and not in the future?

[Plutonic Panda]

How about "best quality" now and not in the future?

So how about it? I would love that. So why are we looking for best value, which smells of being cheap, but not the cheapest. Cheap is still cheap no matter how you define it.

[shawnw]

I could probably look this up pretty easily, so my apologies in advance for not doing so, but I went to visit family in Tucson for Thanksgiving and made it a point to ride their streetcar end-to-end, getting on and off at shops and such, and just really using it like a local. I was very pleased with their product. I thought at one time we were leaning toward copying theirs? Is that no longer an option? If we were able to pick up what they did and plop it down here, I don't see how that would be a bad thing. Probably the only thing I'd change is the shelters. Everything else seemed great, from paying for my fare card to using it on board, to requesting a stop, to getting on and off, whether at a curb or median stop, etc. Nothing seemed to be glaring red flag having me think "oh, this has to get fixed!"

Oh, and the wires didn't seem to be too much.

[Bullbear]

So how about it? I would love that. So why are we looking for best value, which smells of being cheap, but not the cheapest. Cheap is still cheap no matter how you define it.

That isn't what best value says to me. we have a budget so it's not sky is the limit. but best value means we aren't looking at the cheapest bid but rather what bid gives us the most bang for our buck without sacrificing quality to make that happen.

[John]

You think he's implying that because it's Chinese it's poor quality??

That was my take, after looking at the proposed train bids and looking at pictures/renderings of the actual vehicles.

[boitoirich]

That was my take, after looking at the proposed train bids and looking at pictures/renderings of the actual vehicles.

Where have you seen renderings for Xiangtan's modern streetcar model? As far as I know, nothing has been released.

[Urban Pioneer]

"Best Value" is a technical legal term in city language which means that we can choose what we feel meets the highest score in the criteria that best fits Oklahoma City's needs. It means we do not have to choose the cheapest product or lesser quality.

Inekon's streetcars are very similar to Tucson's. United Streetcar (who did Tucson's) licensed most of their design.

[ljbab728]

This gives a little more detail on the breakdown of the costs on each proposal.

Oklahoma City releases additional MAPS 3 streetcar documents | NewsOK.com

[Plutonic Panda]

That isn't what best value says to me. we have a budget so it's not sky is the limit. but best value means we aren't looking at the cheapest bid but rather what bid gives us the most bang for our buck without sacrificing quality to make that happen.

Guess I just disagree. When someone goes out and gets the best value, they aren't getting the best quality, they're getting the best value, which is bang for their buck, which obviously isn't enough to get the best of best, or they would be getting the best quality. Pretty self-explanatory.

[Plutonic Panda]

"Best Value" is a technical legal term in city language which means that we can choose what we feel meets the highest score in the criteria that best fits Oklahoma City's needs. It means we do not have to choose the cheapest product or lesser quality.

Inekon's streetcars are very similar to Tucson's. United Streetcar (who did Tucson's) licensed most of their design.

Hmmm, so what would be the difference in a street car that would meet the needs of Moscow, Tuscon, Dallas, Houston, or Portland? Each of those cities are different, so what about each of those cities would be different about the street car and how the street cars are built with the exception of wireless vs. wired streetcar.

[Urbanized]

Guess I just disagree. When someone goes out and gets the best value, they aren't getting the best quality, they're getting the best value, which is bang for their buck, which obviously isn't enough to get the best of best, or they would be getting the best quality. Pretty self-explanatory.

How does what you posted differ with what Bullbear posted? They seem to be saying exactly the same thing but you're saying you disagree with his statement..? Sorry; I'm confused I guess.

[Plutonic Panda]

How does what you posted differ with what Bullbear posted? They seem to be saying exactly the same thing but you're saying you disagree with his statement..? Sorry; I'm confused I guess.

Sorry. I guess I just misunderstood what everyone was saying.

[Rover]

Guess I just disagree. When someone goes out and gets the best value, they aren't getting the best quality, they're getting the best value, which is bang for their buck, which obviously isn't enough to get the best of best, or they would be getting the best quality. Pretty self-explanatory.

Best value may well be best quality. Value and quality aren't mutually exclusive. In fact, given that quality is relative to criteria, one would argue best value LIKELY is best quality...for the purpose and with all things considered.

[Plutonic Panda]

Best value may well be best quality. Value and quality aren't mutually exclusive. In fact, given that quality is relative to criteria, one would argue best value LIKELY is best quality...for the purpose and with all things considered.

That's true.

[Laramie]

Samples of some MAPS III Street Car Proposals:

Brookville Equipment Corp


CAF USA


INEKON Group (TRIO with OESS Street Car)


Xiangtan Electric Manufacturing Corp. (XEMC)


Oklahoma City considers MAPS 3 streetcar proposals | News OK