Streetcar

[betts]

That information hasn't even been disclosed to the rest of the committee yet. We have a meeting in December and I suspect that info will be available either then or when it goes to Council in January.

[Urban Pioneer]

We are in the process of taking bids and selecting the manufacturer for the streetcar vehicles now. We should have an initial recommendation this month and potentially approved in late December or mid January.

Note this earlier post. We don't have a recommendation to share with you yet.

[HOT ROD]

But no discussion or alternatives or any discussions until it is approved in December?

Not looking for a final decision/recommendation yet, but instead organic free flowing discussion on vehicles, rail, peer benchmarking, status, and general feelings of committee members or rail champions. As i said, surprised how quiet this thread is given such a huge decision coming up.

[Urban Pioneer]

Well, its a formal, closed-door bidding process that's underway. Out of respect for the contenders and to meet the obligations of the process, an informal discussion on OKC TALK by committee members comparing vendors probably is not appropriate at this time.

With exception of a couple sidewalk and trails committee members, we are the only committee to engage OKC TALK
on a regular, ongoing basis.

I would personally, gladly discuss it if I felt it were appropriate.

[Paseofreak]

Can you tell us who responded?

[Urban Pioneer]

I think we can do that. I will find out. I can say that the reason that you are seeing multiple proposals from different vendors is because we threw out a very wide scope. Some vendors have more than one streetcar model that may offer different advantages that we might want to consider but at different prices. Rather than kick them out contest because of a higher price or cause them them to neglect proposing a more innovative product because of fear of the budget, this allows them to submit multiple bids so that we can consider all of their technology options.

I do believe that this may be the widest scope ever put out for an American streetcar project.

[Spartan]

Sorry UP, was just going off an earlier "News"OK article linked previously. Didn't see your post, but thank ya for the update nonetheless!

Hot Rod - As for a gag order, I'd say what's best for potentially the most important MAPS project is a lot of attention. The only thing I don't like is the media's penchant for the false equivalency, and with this project in particular, they just can't shake that monkey on their back telling them not to cover this positively (or at all). I don't think that's the committee's fault for not winning over our pesky media.

[HOT ROD]

ya, Im happy UP and Betts (and other committee/MTP members and associates) are all ok on this. I personally was getting worried about all of the CC boosting yet not ANY discussion about the streetcar, not even from us normal people not on the committee. We have folks who know about developments such as new skyscrapers or venues who gag themselves but there's still organic discussion or shall I say speculation on this forum; yet haven't seen this lately about the streetcar. ....

Anyway, as long as everything is ok and working behind the scenes then I'll be patient. But just know, there's people like me who will stand up (and at least say something) for the Streetcar! I DONT want this to be cut, even though I grown to 'now' strongly support the CC as well.

[Urban Pioneer]

I am not worried about the Convention Center. What I am worried about is the absence of leadership where it counts in developing a Regional Transit Authority and pressing forward with a funding mechanism.

I think most OKCTALK members would be shocked at the level of support and enthusiasm at the OKC Chamber of Commerce for moving forward with plans for a regional system. However, the traffic engineers have done a number on our politicians pressing forward their arguments to build more roads in lieu of transit making the same lack of congestion arguments they have made for 30 years.

There is also a fear among most leadership of a failed vote. At this particular moment, there is a lack of willingness among politicians to risk having a failed initiative as part of their legacy. Ironically, 2017 is exactly the right time to move forward with the absence of any other big ideas for the next MAPS.

This directly affects the streetcar's potential to be properly funded and expanded into the larger system that it was always intended to be. It is my personal goal to ensure that expansion plans are considered. Going into the new year, there will be more discussion and more education about these issues.

We have a big problem though. We need to to move beyond discussion and into implementation And we are on borrowed time to do it imhop.

[Bullbear]

I am with you HOT ROD this is one of the projects I really want to see completed. It is amazing how many people in the city don't even know that its happening due to lack of coverage. I certainly hope it is successful.

[Laramie]

The most visible concern many of my relatives from the Metroplex who visit point out is the transit. The 4.6 miles of streetcar and commuter transit project does provide a base to expand when MAP IV 2017 referendum is crafted. The city's leadership will really have to push for expansion into areas like St. Anthony's/OU Medical & Research Park, Stockyard City/Fairgrounds and north toward Baptist/Deaconess Hospitals.

Cities like Portland, Salt Lake City, Charlotte, Denver & Raleigh are in the process of expanding their transit options.

[CuatrodeMayo]

I am not worried about the Convention Center. What I am worried about is the absence of leadership where it counts in developing a Regional Transit Authority and pressing forward with a funding mechanism.

I think most OKCTALK members would be shocked at the level of support and enthusiasm at the OKC Chamber of Commerce for moving forward with plans for a regional system. However, the traffic engineers have done a number on our politicians pressing forward their arguments to build more roads in lieu of transit making the same lack of congestion arguments they have made for 30 years.

There is also a fear among most leadership of a failed vote. At this particular moment, there is a lack of willingness among politicians to risk having a failed initiative as part of their legacy. Ironically, 2017 is exactly the right time to move forward with the absence of any other big ideas for the next MAPS.

This directly affects the streetcar's potential to be properly funded and expanded into the larger system that it was always intended to be. It is my personal goal to ensure that expansion plans are considered. Going into the new year, there will be more discussion and more education about these issues.

We have a big problem though. We need to to move beyond discussion and into implementation And we are on borrowed time to do it imhop.

Good points. What can the membership of OKCTalk and citizens of the metro do to further this cause?

[Spartan]

I am not worried about the Convention Center. What I am worried about is the absence of leadership where it counts in developing a Regional Transit Authority and pressing forward with a funding mechanism.

I think most OKCTALK members would be shocked at the level of support and enthusiasm at the OKC Chamber of Commerce for moving forward with plans for a regional system. However, the traffic engineers have done a number on our politicians pressing forward their arguments to build more roads in lieu of transit making the same lack of congestion arguments they have made for 30 years.

There is also a fear among most leadership of a failed vote. At this particular moment, there is a lack of willingness among politicians to risk having a failed initiative as part of their legacy. Ironically, 2017 is exactly the right time to move forward with the absence of any other big ideas for the next MAPS.

This directly affects the streetcar's potential to be properly funded and expanded into the larger system that it was always intended to be. It is my personal goal to ensure that expansion plans are considered. Going into the new year, there will be more discussion and more education about these issues.

We have a big problem though. We need to to move beyond discussion and into implementation And we are on borrowed time to do it imhop.

Thanks for the update and assessment, and ditto what Cuatro said.

I can believe that the Chamber is very supportive. I come to a lot of planning concepts from an economic standpoint, and similarly think finally having the transit component will grow our economy. Traffic engineers, however, due not consider or understand the economic implications - that is a profession that will be resistant to evolution. They were trained to do one thing - build roads. They're not going to stop trying to build roads.

That was the key misunderstanding over the Boulevard debate. Traffic engineers were just trying to find the best way to move traffic, because that's what they do, and this was their project, not ours. If someone approached the boulevard from the standpoint of either economic development or quality of life, they would have arrived at a very different proposal.

[Urban Pioneer]

I guess someone reads these threads... This article today and another coming out late this week.

http://okgazette.com/2014/12/03/alte...ependent-city/

[Urban Pioneer]

Good points. What can the membership of OKCTalk and citizens of the metro do to further this cause?

First and foremost, support and encourage elected officials to actually move forward with formally organizing an authority. In Oklahoma City, that would be Mayor Cornett, Meg Salyer, David Greenwell, John Pettis, and Pete White.

I'd say get behind and support James Cooper in his election bid against Ed Shadid.

In Norman, press Mayor Cindy Rosenthal. In Edmond, Elizabeth Wanger.

Basically, people need to get a spine and actually form the damn thing. Until then, cooridors will not be protected, assets will not be merged and leveraged, grants will go unpursued. Meaningful streetcar and bus expansion in the central city is likely to only happen if James Cooper is elected and presses for streetcar and bus investment in the next GO Bond and MAPS 3.

[Hutch]

I guess someone reads these threads... This article today and another coming out late this week.

http://okgazette.com/2014/12/03/alte...ependent-city/

Here's a related news video...

http://okgazette.com/2014/11/18/vide...-transit-plan/

[ljbab728]

An update on the proposals.

Oklahoma City considers MAPS 3 streetcar proposals | NewsOK.com

Plans for the downtown MAPS 3 streetcar line have started to come into focus as four companies have submitted seven proposals to the city to supply the streetcars.
The proposals will be evaluated by a committee consisting of city officials and two members of the MAPS 3 streetcar subcommittee, a citizen advisory panel. Proposals will be evaluated on a range of factors, including design, durability, off-wire capabilities and price. Oklahoma City indicated in its request for proposals that Onboard Energy Storage Systems, or OESS, were a high priority. Those systems enable streetcars to operate without overhead wires.

One interesting note from the INEKON proposal:

Worth noting: Oklahoma City streetcars would be manufactured in Ostrava-Martinov, Czech Republic. INEKON Group says it is willing to negotiate a 100 percent off-wire option using hydrogen fuel cell technology. The company estimates the city would save $11.5 million by not having to install wires.

[Urban Pioneer]

Bill Crum did an awesome job on this article. I'm sure it took some time to interview all of the companies to put together the information in light of the ongoing process and limited disclosure.

[OKCinsomniac]

100% off-wire hydrogen fuel cell?? Nice. Between the Santa Fe Intermodal hub plans and some of these details, I don't see how anybody could not be getting fired up for the streetcar. Any chance the "Phase 2" extensions (down 4th to OUHSC / OHC and south to the new MAPS 3 park) get built out at the same time as the initial route?

[Urban Pioneer]

We really won't know until the construction bids come in next year. And I suspect that some of us will be pressing for certain additional enhancements to the base system that may cost more money than the primary budget.

For example- dual air conditioning, automatic traffic signal prioritization, a 4-way redundancy switch at 4th/Robinson, parallel parking track encroachment sensor camera system, and stop shelters that provide the most sheltering for our unique and sometimes extreme weather.

The a Phase 1 needs to be First Class imhop. The next MAPS is 2017. Not too far away to propose major comprehensive expansions.

[Bullbear]

It definately needs to be First class to win over the doubters. the enhancements you listed all sound great and will definately add tremendous value to the project!

[Just the facts]

I hope they keep the overhead wires - they serve a purpose more than just supplying electricity.

[Bullbear]

I hope they keep the overhead wires - they serve a purpose more than just supplying electricity.

you know I never really thought of this until you mentioned it before. but when you did a light bulb went off. you are absolutely right in that it brings attention to the line in a positive fashion. people see and consider this transportation option more clearly. otherwise its basically a bus system and we know how under utilized that is in this city. when I have visited other places with streetcar systems you see the wires and tracks and you consider that for a moment when you see a bus you don't.

[CuatrodeMayo]

Yea...keep the overhead wires. If we don't have wires how will anybody know where the streetcar runs?

oh wait...

[Just the facts]

Yea...keep the overhead wires. If we don't have wires how will anybody know where the streetcar runs?

oh wait...

when I see rails in the street and no overhead wire I immediately conclude the line is abandoned.