OG&E Energy Center

[Motley]

Are the agencies/committees as setup for all this in OKC consistent with the systems in other cities? Is there another process, in say Austin or KC, that makes these types of reviews better?

[Paseofreak]

^^^^ As usual, with laser sharp precision.

[Motley]

I still get the impression that there is a lack of trust in the city officials and agencies. I've never really taken an interest in civic matters in the cities I have lived, as I consider OK my home and all the places I have lived as not really my place. So I am not sure if this is typical curiosity in the process shared in any project of this magnitude, or is it suspicion of mismanagement by the city.

[Pete]

I have a lack of trust because:

1. I've followed Project 180 very closely and it is way, way over budget and way, way under delivering what was promised. It's also taking about twice as long to do half what was promised.

2. The way #1 has been reported to the public and the City Council has been incredibly deceiving.

3. Larry Nichols has an incredible amount of influence (Chair of OCURA, the Alliance for Economic Development, Chamber board, many other committees) and the Alliance now has a lot of power and operates outside open meeting and open record laws.

4. Nichols, the Chamber and the Oklahoman all seem very tightly aligned with their ultra big business agenda.

5. Virtually everyone involved in these processes has no experience outside of Oklahoma and we have been in unchartered territory for a while.

6. We have no watchdog press in OKC.


I think everyone involved is well-intentioned but they don't own OKC and in most cases, they are making decisions about hundreds of millions of public dollars. I simply don't think the information is flowing freely enough and there is no one to challenge in case things get way out of kilter.

[Paseofreak]

For me, it is suspicion of mismanagement or lack of due diligence. For instance, OKDOT told us that the only way to build the boulevard was with a 1600 feet long bridge. It wasn't malicious, I don't think. Just what was right from their personal perspective. I think in the case of the OGE tower and the site to the south, things evolved, Clayco wants this and somebody thinks they'll get credit for a home run if they make it happen. That is not in the best interest of me or the city.

[Motley]

I see, both your answers explain a lot.

OKC will get better leadership as it grows, but the concentration of so many overlapping agencies in a few people is disconcerting. Also sounds like the city needs to purposely seek out new blood and diversity of experience. There are growing pains as any institution strives to the next level, the old guard has to ultimately grow or move on, and learnings have to be applied to improve the system, not just dismissed by the old guard. If not, any city or company will fall behind and become irrelevant. Too often the people in power are too narrowly focused on maintaining power and believing only they have the right answer. They get paternalistic and defensive and don't feel they need to explain their actions to anyone. Sadly we see it in the federal government and at the city level and in old companies trying to hang on in a changing environment.

[Pete]

Keep in mind that our City Manager has held his job for over 14 years now.

Know what the longest term was prior for this position? 7 years.

Know what the average term has been for the 34 prior City Managers? 2.5 years.


So, at a time where we are experiencing the biggest growth in the history of the City and where we are undertaking billions in civic improvements and urban enhancements, we've chosen to stick with the same guy for 14 years where he's either worked for the City of OKC (for the last 27 years) or much smaller cities in much smaller roles.

And in turn, he tends to only promote people from within, so you have a situation where every person in position of leadership is holding down their biggest responsibility ever, and only have the perspective of what used to happen in OKC, which we've already established has one of the most abysmal track records of urban development anywhere.


All good, hard-working and no doubt well-meaning people but not exactly the recipe for innovation, perspective and progressiveness.

[bchris02]

Comparison to peer cities is definitely a healthy thing. Too often in OKC it seems like the measuring stick is either Tulsa or pre-MAPS early 1990s OKC. When that is your measuring stick it doesn't result in, as Pete posted, innovation, perspective, and progressiveness. For a big league comparison people usually look to Dallas but they are so much larger and have so much more at their disposal they aren't really a good comparison. I think OKC needs to look at how things are done in its peers (Memphis, Louisville, Jax, Richmond) and also one tier up (Nashville, Indy, Charlotte) to get a better perspective.

[Motley]

Doing a very quick search, I see OKC's budget is around a billion dollars compared to around $3b for Portland OR, a city of about the same population. Nashville's is $1.9b. If OKC's budget is that much smaller than similar cities, maybe that explains the lack of better leadership. If my job was city manager, I would want a position that has a sizable budget compared to one that is starved.

[Paseofreak]

OKC isn't really comparable with either of those cities, and probably won't be for quite some time due to our annexation to the county limits and beyond before growing there. Nashville has a huge consolidated metro government with many smaller governments participating in a combined effort for many government functions. We're a city of almost 600K operating over the area of a much, much larger municipality.

[Pete]

They had a very good Planning Director they chased off, along with most of his department.

it's not all budget. They employ 4,000 people; plenty of money for a handful of experienced leaders.

[Motley]

So it comes down to leaders that don't have the internal tools to do a superior job and city officials that have an agenda of mediocrity or lack the skills to develop and keep talent. Depressing.

[Pete]

We are long overdue to hire a new City Manager. It's really that simple.

Of course, absolutely no one talks about this or points our he's already held the job twice as long as anyone else. Just a bunch of "they are so overworked and understafed" rhetoric.

There is too much power concentrated in too few hands and all these people seem to have the same point of view, which means we don't have nearly the proper checks and balances in place.

[Pete]

We are long overdue to hire a new City Manager. It's really that simple.

Of course, absolutely no one talks about this or points our he's already held the job twice as long as anyone else. Just a bunch of "they are so overworked and understafed" rhetoric.

There is too much power concentrated in too few hands and all these people seem to have the same point of view and limited perspective, which means we don't have nearly the proper checks and balances in place.

[Paseofreak]

I grew up and continue to work in the engineering world. Engineers dominate city government and have for years. Engineers love to rely on data from the past and "proven" methods for solving problems to the ninth decimal place. They have little room for creative, soft thinking. Heck, geologists rank among the lower primates in the world I work in. A planner? Right there with anenomes or starfish. They only deal in vague feelings that can't be readily quantified. I exaggerate a bit, but not much. Engineers do not readily synthesize human feelings. They are about getting the job done with maximum efficiency and lifespan.

The pendulum is creeping the other way in OKC, but very slowly. Years before I arrive here the long time DPW was an iron fisted King of Concrete that instituted the notion that more concrete was the solution to every problem. Except for sidewalks. From his loins the current set of administrators and relations with City Council were born, and change is very slow in coming. We need a remix in staffing top to bottom that includes a healthy dose of young and non-local hires. We also need a paradigm shift in City Council and top level city administrators.

[Rover]

So it comes down to leaders that don't have the internal tools to do a superior job and city officials that have an agenda of mediocrity or lack the skills to develop and keep talent. Depressing.

I don't think they have an agenda of mediocrity as they are doing what THEY think is best. Intent and results can be two different things. We can doubt the outcome without questioning the intent. ir As Pete points out, they need new blood for new ideas and to not get so many things rubber stamped.

[Motley]

In the end is it the city council and mayor that needs to refresh the talent, starting with the city manager? Are there any discussions going on about that? I understand the Mayor is forward thinking, any movement by him to get new leadership?

[Tier2City]

Funnily enough, someone raised this issue on Steve's chat the other day:

Guest -
11:27 a.m.
I heard that a leading authority on downtown development said that during the original MAPS the biggest threat to the city was not municipal corruption [thank goodness] but rather the arrogance of City staff who felt they were “doing God’s work.” That’s not meant in a religious sense but that they were absolutely convinced they were right, knew exactly what they were doing and would accept no questioning. Do you think that is still the case today?

Steve Lackmeyer -
11:28 a.m.
Opportunities for humility are always good ways to keep people in check - that's certainly true for me.

[Paseofreak]

Our Mayor is a great guy and a fantastic spokesman and advocate for our city (see landing NOKC Bobcats and Thunder), but I don't think Mick and City Council, which is full of old school thinkers are ready to re-arrange what has seemed to keep getting them re-elected and is completely defensible to the general public. The fact that we're going through the excercize that is PlanOKC is a bit of a miracle to me. I'll wait to see if it sits on the shelf or not.

[Just the facts]

This is definitely something to consider. If the Clayco deal falls apart and oil stays low for the long haul, there could be an empty lot at the Stage Center site for the foreseeable future. That would be extremely disappointing.

No more disappointing than $140 million in taxpayers dollar sunk into a vacant office building.

[ChrisHayes]

No more disappointing than $140 million in taxpayers dollar sunk into a vacant office building.

How do you know it will be vacant? Why would Clayco spend hundreds of millions of dollars building a development if they didn't know it would have tenants? With how much they've already sunk into this project I would imagine they can be talked into a smaller TIF.

[ChrisHayes]

What's the history of TIFs or other public/private partnerships being used for large scale developments in other up and coming cities? I'm sure there's been countless TIFs or P/Ps over the years. Again, if the project doesn't happen the money doesn't exist, so it's not like we have the money laying around and can spend it elsewhere.

[Paseofreak]

If they know it will have tenants why do they need a TIF? Just a guess, but a good bet it's because they think they can get it.

[Just the facts]

How do you know it will be vacant? Why would Clayco spend hundreds of millions of dollars building a development if they didn't know it would have tenants? With how much they've already sunk into this project I would imagine they can be talked into a smaller TIF.

My comment was based on bchris's assumption that a declining oil market will leave this lot empty for the foreseeable future. It only stands to reason that if there isn't a tenant needing office space then if the building exist there still isn't anyone to occupy it. Personally, I think these lot can be developed with zero TIF funding. As Pete pointed out - if it can't be done now when could it ever be done? At some point we need to jump out of the nest and see if we can fly.

[ChrisHayes]

I would agree with you there. But at the same time, we might not be exposed to the world enough like Austin and Dallas are. I don't know. When it comes to oil prices, I don't think it's time to go into panic mode. There's no way of knowing how long these prices will last. A month from now they might be back up into the 80s. I'm enjoying the cheaper gas, but I wish oil would go up just enough to keep all the drilling going.