Connecting downtown to Health Sciences Center

[boitoirich]

The time has come for an autonomous Central Oklahoma Department of Transportation.

But I'll admit my bias, I think cities manage themselves much better than states do anyway.

[Spartan]

I would say a cap over I-235 should be a part of MAPS4, but I don't know if the city would have any say in it being that its ODOT property. Would any freeway cap have to be proposed and funded entirely by ODOT? It is a cool idea though and it would be great if there would be a way to make it happen without having to get Tulsa and rural Oklahoma on board.

Why should OKC pay for something that ODOT should pay for?

[catcherinthewry]

Why should OKC pay for something that ODOT should pay for?

Why would ODOT pay for it? A cap over I-235 would do nothing for transportation. It would strictly be a beautification/quality of life project.

[Prunepicker]

His name is CuatroDeMayo. He is the resident badass of OKCTalk.

And a really nice guy with a cute kid.

[Spartan]

Why would ODOT pay for it? A cap over I-235 would do nothing for transportation. It would strictly be a beautification/quality of life project.

Yes, of their piece of infrastructure that screwed up the city.

DOTs in most states actually do this thing called "mitigation" for freeway projects. ODOT will never do it if we don't ask to be treated like citizens in a regular city/state that wouldn't tolerate that kind of DOT.

Planners in most other states would be astonished at what ODOT routinely gets away with here.

[Just the facts]

Freeway caps are literally just covering up the problem. The freeway is the problem whether you can see it or not. Be wary of anything that attempts to recreate the dreams of Le Corbusier.

[Plutonic Panda]

Yes, of their piece of infrastructure that screwed up the city.

DOTs in most states actually do this thing called "mitigation" for freeway projects. ODOT will never do it if we don't ask to be treated like citizens in a regular city/state that wouldn't tolerate that kind of DOT.

Planners in most other states would be astonished at what ODOT routinely gets away with here.

Screwed up the city. That's a good one.

[Prunepicker]

Screwed up the city. That's a good one.

I can't help but notice that the exits and on ramps are so screwed up. Did these
planners ever drive on the Crosstown? A ramp for Shields? Really?

If you miss the Shields on ramp you can't access I-40 until Meridian. That's stupid.
Of course if there's an on ramp between Shields and Meridian I'd like to know about
it.

[ljbab728]

I can't help but notice that the exits and on ramps are so screwed up. Did these
planners ever drive on the Crosstown? A ramp for Shields? Really?

If you miss the Shields on ramp you can't access I-40 until Meridian. That's stupid.
Of course if there's an on ramp between Shields and Meridian I'd like to know about
it.

Have you heard about a street called Western or maybe the Crosstown Blvd.? The last time I checked they are between Shield and Meridian. And don't forget the Agnew/Villa ramps.

[Buffalo Bill]

Have you heard about a street called Western or maybe the Crosstown Blvd.? The last time I checked they are between Shield and Meridian. And don't forget the Agnew/Villa ramps.

There's also a westbound on ramp at Portland.

[Spartan]

Freeway caps are literally just covering up the problem. The freeway is the problem whether you can see it or not. Be wary of anything that attempts to recreate the dreams of Le Corbusier.

No, freeway caps are not covering up the problem. You gotta have freeways, and while OKC shouldn't have built 235, it did and now it relies on it. A freeway cap is an easy win-win for the city and the greater region.

This is what was torn down to build 235:


Here is a link to a massive aerial pano of the otherwise strong urban fabric that 235 is slicing up. It's a visible scar through downtown from above.
http://www.aerialok.com/wp-content/u...9665-OUHSC.jpg

[Just the facts]

Well you can't build that on top of a cap and all the problems associated with freeways - from encouraging sprawl to the cost of maintenance are still there - and in fact - the maintenance cost we already can't afford would be even higher.

[Plutonic Panda]

No, freeway caps are not covering up the problem. You gotta have freeways, and while OKC shouldn't have built 235, it did and now it relies on it. A freeway cap is an easy win-win for the city and the greater region.

This is what was torn down to build 235:


Here is a link to a massive aerial pano of the otherwise strong urban fabric that 235 is slicing up. It's a visible scar through downtown from above.
http://www.aerialok.com/wp-content/u...9665-OUHSC.jpg

Beautiful cityscape. I still support them being torn down and the highway being built in their place.

[HOT ROD]

Well you can't build that on top of a cap and all the problems associated with freeways - from encouraging sprawl to the cost of maintenance are still there - and in fact - the maintenance cost we already can't afford would be even higher.

yes you can

[boitoirich]

Beautiful cityscape. I still support them being torn down and the highway being built in their place.

Plu, the destruction of Deep Deuce was much more than tearing down some cityscape to build a highway.

[Laramie]

Plu, the destruction of Deep Deuce was much more than tearing down some cityscape to build a highway.

Amen, so true my bro...

It was the heart, mind & soul of those who grew up in the Deep Deuce-Oak Park additions (Page-Woodson). It represented the epitome of the OKC black renaissance where Charlie Christian, Jimmy Rushing, "Count" Basie, Blue Devils Band, Langston Hughes, Ralph Ellison (Invisible Man), Judge Vicki Miles-LaGrange, Dr. G.E. Finley, Dr. E. C. Moon, Dr. Frank Cox, Dr. W. K. Jackson, Dr. E. Jennings Perry, Abram Ross, Russell M. Perry, Roscoe Dunjee, Ada Lois Sipuel Fisher, Earl Temple, Prentice Gautt and Dr. Ben Hart left their imprint.

A big chapter of Oklahoma City's black history lives in the memory of Deep Deuce (once known as Oklahoma City's Black Business District).

Rich history of Deep Deuce deserves to be told | News OK

[Prunepicker]

I played a Lecture/Concert series called Charlie Christian through the Eyes of Ralph Ellison.
The program was performed at Douglas HS, Boley, Clearview, Lawton and the
Historical Society and Langston University.

BLAC funded the project and it was very informative and entertaining.

There's talk of it continuing next year.

[Plutonic Panda]

Plu, the destruction of Deep Deuce was much more than tearing down some cityscape to build a highway.

I didn't even know that was considered Deep Deuce.

[Prunepicker]

I didn't even know that was considered Deep Deuce.

I'm pretty sure that Deep Deuce waned away on it's own. I have
a black friend who lived during DD. He didn't think much of it. There
are a lot of rumors and urban legends involved with DD.

I wasn't there. My friend was and he IS black.

[Laramie]

I'm pretty sure that Deep Deuce waned away on it's own. I have
a black friend who lived during DD. He didn't think much of it. There
are a lot of rumors and urban legends involved with DD.

I wasn't there. My friend was and he IS black.

Wow! I don't know what to say: Your friend sounds like a white handkerchief head (Doesn't identify with blacks).

[Plutonic Panda]

I'm pretty sure that Deep Deuce waned away on it's own. I have
a black friend who lived during DD. He didn't think much of it. There
are a lot of rumors and urban legends involved with DD.

I wasn't there. My friend was and he IS black.

I am not proud to say this buy I don't know that much about Deep Deuce other than it was a significant historic community for African Americans. I need to learn more about it.

[bchris02]

Well you can't build that on top of a cap and all the problems associated with freeways - from encouraging sprawl to the cost of maintenance are still there - and in fact - the maintenance cost we already can't afford would be even higher.

OKC relies on I-235 today and removing it entirely would cause so many traffic problems. It isn't a realistic possibility. Capping it is the middle ground solution that allows the highway to remain but also allows an opportunity for urban fabric or at least a park to bridge the gap between the two sides.

[Laramie]

Different versions sung by Barbara Streisand, Gladys Knight & Diana Ross, it's all the same.

Deep Deuce is history like many other neighborhoods; Walnut Grove, Sandtown and there was one IIRC called the Civics' Republic. These places had memories for a lot of people. What occurred with these neighborhoods has passed.

It's not for me or anyone to attempt to justify the destruction of those neighborhoods; they were important to a lot of people in their day.

It's time to move on with progress...

[Prunepicker]

Wow! I don't know what to say: Your friend sounds like a white handkerchief
head (Doesn't identify with blacks).

I'm not how you came up with that. Maybe DD really wasn't as big of a deal
as it is today.

[hoya]

How important Deep Deuce was to someone probably depends on exactly when they lived there, and what they were into. You could live in Norman during the height of the Bud Wilkinson era, and if you didn't like football, you'd think there was nothing to do. If PP's friend lived in Deep Deuce after it's glory days, well, it wasn't the construction of I-235 that led to its decline. 235 just finished it off.